FIAT and PSA to merge

jongood said:
We're not actually, our economy is doing much better than most of our neighbors. Btw the last UK made van factory (transit) was moved to Turkey with the help of EU money.
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Aye, And if the UK government had given "assistance" they would have penalised and Gastgated for a "Government Subsisdy" and against EU Rules!!.
 
Daughter bought a Renault clio 1 year old, when 2 years old the AC packed in, when 3 and half years old one the front coil springs broke and the other was rotted thru that about sums up PSA.
 
BILL 875 said:
Daughter bought a Renault clio 1 year old, when 2 years old the AC packed in, when 3 and half years old one the front coil springs broke and the other was rotted thru that about sums up PSA.
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Renault is nothing to do with PSA.
 
Gromett said:
A point without a point? Are you saying your rules about established manufacturers never making fit and finish mistakes like Tesla did doesn't apply to commercial vehicles? And that paint quality doesn't apply to commercial vehicles?
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Did you really have to make this thread about Tesla???

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Stephane Bosman said:
Did you really have to make this thread about Tesla???
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Show me one thread on this forum that stays on topic. I was having a little friendly dig at some members I regularly have a joust with.
 
Wh
Gromett said:
Show me one thread on this forum that stays on topic. I was having a little friendly dig at some members I regularly have a joust with.
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While i was at South Mimms last night.. 12 Tesla superchargers, 4 cars on them at 3am.. been there since before 12. Why?
 
jongood said:
We're not actually, our economy is doing much better than most of our neighbors. Btw the last UK made van factory (transit) was moved to Turkey with the help of EU money.
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There is a Global slowdown and regarding Turkey, it may be something to do with the uncertainty of Trading after the B word, why would you build a van here when exporting to a larger market would possibly have import duties..answers on the back of an envelope please Doh!
 
PhilG said:
Wh

While i was at South Mimms last night.. 12 Tesla superchargers, 4 cars on them at 3am.. been there since before 12. Why?
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Maybe the drivers are in the travel lodge all tucked up asleep

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Coolcats said:
There is a Global slowdown and regarding Turkey, it may be something to do with the uncertainty of Trading after the B word, why would you build a van here when exporting to a larger market would possibly have import duties..answers on the back of an envelope please Doh!
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May I direct you?:- ""Turkey has been an applicant to accede to the EU since 1987, but since 2016 accession negotiations have stalled. ... On 26 June 2018, the EU's General Affairs Council stated that "the Council notes that Turkey has been moving further away from the European Union. "" (it`s application is stalled due to it`s "uman rites" record allegedly)

So Is not and EU Member. BUT:- The EU-Turkey CU is a separate customs union between Turkey and the EUCU. ... It covers trade in industrial goods but does not include agricultural products (except certain processed agricultural products), coal and steel products, or public procurement. (So interestingly it has the "sort of" semi autonomous arrangement, much like many in the UK would like.?.

So in those circumstances why should ("Br***t) make any difference to van building in the UK?. It was obviously done because the "financial incentives" where there.
 
Jeez what is it with you guys who have to write in Bold?
 
Coolcats said:
There is a Global slowdown and regarding Turkey, it may be something to do with the uncertainty of Trading after the B word, why would you build a van here when exporting to a larger market would possibly have import duties..answers on the back of an envelope please Doh!
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Errr... It happenend in 2012, so well before Bxxxxxxt. Apparently the regional boddies were unable to compete with the incentives given by the EU to move it to Turkey.

But you are right there is a global slowdown in ICE powered vehicles although this has largely been caused by ideological thinking wishing to accelerate us towards all electric transport without sufficient consideration for the logistics again by our good friends at the EU. they've managed to shaft the car industry all across Europe.
 
jongood said:
Errr... It happenend in 2012, so well before Bxxxxxxt. Apparently the regional boddies were unable to compete with the incentives given by the EU to move it to Turkey.

But you are right there is a global slowdown in ICE powered vehicles although this has largely been caused by ideological thinking wishing to accelerate us towards all electric transport without sufficient consideration for the logistics again by our good friends at the EU. they've managed to shaft the car industry all across Europe.
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Oh well I had no idea this was back in 2012 ! But surely it’s part of the global recession storm clouds and the car industry across the globe not just the EU

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PeteH said:
However, as I copy/pasted the the information from another source, the bold characters where already included. (y) :D2
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Hmmm apologies for that, I didn’t notice the quote marks and thought it was your thoughts rather than someone else’s
 
Coolcats said:
Oh well I had no idea this was back in 2012 ! But surely it’s part of the global recession storm clouds and the car industry across the globe not just the EU
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Not really no; The public has been made very wary of buying nasty dirty diesel engines but are not all finding what they are looking for in the electric market so they are sticking with what they ve got.

The EU has steadily raised the emission standards to the point where its really hurting car manufacturing in the EU of which we are still part. So when Nissan decided not to build the new X trail in Sunderland it was mainly because they don't have a diesel engine that will comply with the latest EU regs. however it will comply with the regs in Asia and actually they would rather build it in Japan which is in deep deep debt and is closer to the now main market place.
 
jongood said:
Not really no; The public has been made very wary of buying nasty dirty diesel engines but are not all finding what they are looking for in the electric market so they are sticking with what they ve got.

The EU has steadily raised the emission standards to the point where its really hurting car manufacturing in the EU of which we are still part. So when Nissan decided not to build the new X trail in Sunderland it was mainly because they don't have a diesel engine that will comply with the latest EU regs. however it will comply with the regs in Asia and actually they would rather build it in Japan which is in deep deep debt and is closer to the now main market place.
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Now I heard the same "story", but was told it was all "Bollox". Strange however that the tie up to buy Renault diesels (allegedly) was dropped after the Euro 6 ruling came out?. More (IMV) evidence that the EUSSR is having a strangling effect on commerce here.
 
Interesting that you are laying blame at the foot of the EU for emission and health standards, one probable cause of the diesel issue is the petrochemical companies lobbying government way back we all knew that Diesels were dirty and the PM10's and NOx a standard engine could output. Given the sheer volume of vehicles and emissions the EU standards have done us all a favour, it is ignorant to think otherwise (I am not saying you don't think emission standards are a bad thing. The emission standards are tough to meet hence the VW scandal but it wasn't just VW its the majority if not all manufactures and engine types this includes petrol engines.

Of course manufacturers will alll have to change the way they develop their cars, they are sweating their assets until they bring EV or alternatives to market, if you look at the Communications market the internet has revolutionised how business is carried out and continues to do so

Separately and away from vehicle manufacturing is a global economic crisis that appears to be looming which means business will place manufacturing with or without subsidies at the best location for them to trade, whether that is inside or outside what ever markets they wish to trade in.
 
Coolcats said:
Interesting that you are laying blame at the foot of the EU for emission and health standards, one probable cause of the diesel issue is the petrochemical companies lobbying government way back we all knew that Diesels were dirty and the PM10's and NOx a standard engine could output. Given the sheer volume of vehicles and emissions the EU standards have done us all a favour, it is ignorant to think otherwise (I am not saying you don't think emission standards are a bad thing. The emission standards are tough to meet hence the VW scandal but it wasn't just VW its the majority if not all manufactures and engine types this includes petrol engines.

Of course manufacturers will alll have to change the way they develop their cars, they are sweating their assets until they bring EV or alternatives to market, if you look at the Communications market the internet has revolutionised how business is carried out and continues to do so

Separately and away from vehicle manufacturing is a global economic crisis that appears to be looming which means business will place manufacturing with or without subsidies at the best location for them to trade, whether that is inside or outside what ever markets they wish to trade in.
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I do agree that reductions in emissions are generally a good thing, but I think the EU are trying to go too fast for the available technology, another case of ideology outvoting reality.

The other point is that the population of the EU is roughly 7% ( thanks google) of the world population so you have to wonder what difference putting ourselves through this pain will actually make.

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jongood said:
I do agree that reductions in emissions are generally a good thing, but I think the EU are trying to go too fast for the available technology, another case of ideology outvoting reality.

The other point is that the population of the EU is roughly 7% ( thanks google) of the world population so you have to wonder what difference putting ourselves through this pain will actually make.
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Maybe the manufactures sell their good globally not just to the 7% Emissions are challenging there is no doubt about that but the sooner we move from relying on Fossil / Carbon fuels the better. I am glad I do not live in India and that our governments (like it or not) have made moves for clean air I am very grateful for, none of us would wish to live in a world gasping for air and at one time we had our own Smog issues so maybe the EU emission standards are a very good thing.
 
As has been said you can’t change an industry overnight “car” these things take time ,unfortunately the pen pushers who make up the rules are not the ones who have to implement them ,things will change that’s for certain, a dose of reality wouldn’t go amiss. :)
 
Coolcats said:
Maybe the manufactures sell their good globally not just to the 7% Emissions are challenging there is no doubt about that but the sooner we move from relying on Fossil / Carbon fuels the better. I am glad I do not live in India and that our governments (like it or not) have made moves for clean air I am very grateful for, none of us would wish to live in a world gasping for air and at one time we had our own Smog issues so maybe the EU emission standards are a very good thing.
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Other markets do currently buy EU produced cars but there are also a lot of other countries producing vehicles that are not necessarily to EU emission standards: US, Mexico, Japan, India, China to name but a few.

And I do agree that reducing emissions is generally a good thing, but make the point again that the current pace it is decimating the car industry.
 
jongood said:
The fact remains that an EU institution gave Ford an incentive to relocate outside the EU
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Ford has had a plant in Turkey since 1977, the PV was produced in Turkey, while the twin cab was built in Southampton. You need to look at the Ford US operations and losses to understand the wider picture. If the EIB hadn't provided a loan of 50% of the Turkish plant expansion costs another funder would have - that's global finance for you.
 
Paddywack said:
Ford has had a plant in Turkey since 1977, the PV was produced in Turkey, while the twin cab was built in Southampton. You need to look at the Ford US operations and losses to understand the wider picture. If the EIB hadn't provided a loan of 50% of the Turkish plant expansion costs another funder would have - that's global finance for you.
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The EIB is an EU institution non-profit making with a mission statement to 'support sound investments which further EU policy goals'. It's hard to see how lending our tax money to Ford to move jobs out of the UK to a Non-member state is good for us in any way but maybe you can enlighten us?
 
jongood said:
The EIB is an EU institution non-profit making with a mission statement to 'support sound investments which further EU policy goals'. It's hard to see how lending our tax money to Ford to move jobs out of the UK to a Non-member state is good for us in any way but maybe you can enlighten us?
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