Faulty Inverter ???

[PJGWiltshire]

Good luck with the advise you have received. You make mention that the system was installed by Van Bitz back in 2005. As you say the cabling you would assume would be correct upon installation and you have fitted new batteries. You are going back into the workshop at the end of the month. Is that with whom you bought the vehicle. My experience is unless something is obviously broken the answer will be" you are plugging in to much' I suggest you contact Van Bitz. It maybe that your inverter MAY need upgrading to accommodate your new add on bits that need power. If your batteries are in good order it could be that you are simply drawing to much. All is not lost. A way round additional power could be the installation of a Stirling B2B charger. This will recharge your leisure batteries quicker. We have one installed and also use this as a form of mini generator. When requiring items that draw a high load I start the engine and wait for the B2B to engage and then turn on inverter for the heavy task in hand (normally running good ladies Dyson hear dryer 1500 w and also to help batteries with the toaster. That way my batteries do not power down as the B2B produces sufficient to assist the batteries. This has been used a lot in these shorter days and lower sun in the UK when the solar panels struggle to keep up with charge into the batteries .

 

[two]

Thank you, that is very helpful. heating up water in a pot is an easy fix, limited use of hair dryer is also doable. What about the toaster it is only 700 w and what are your thoughts on cheap inverters please

Your electricity via inverter is likely to be much more expensive per kWh than gas in the first place. That is one reason I say "never use your batteries to create heat". The other reason is that the power available from (most) battery banks is only modest. There are exceptions, though, and we've already discussed hair dryers. Where did the toaster 'pop up' from? It's generating heat, so not kind to batteries and you may have a grill (?) Avoid toasters if at all possible. We have toast at home but not in the motorhome. Another exception might be a coffee-maker (which you have not dared mention yet). I avoid them by using a stove-top Moka pot (which produces excellent coffee).
Cheapo inverters are modified sine wave (MSW). Their waveform can be anything from square to trapezoidal. Fine for kettles and toasters but not so good for some things with sensitive electronics. Hair curlers (and even some hair dryers) can refuse to work. I've read that some devices can be damaged by such waveforms but not experienced this myself. As you move to pure sine wave (PSW) the waveform becomes much smoother. I'm not sure at what point a PSW is deemed to have been achieved but suspect that the cheaper models are not quite as 'pure' as the more expensive ones - yet are probably good enough. You get what you pay for, but not in proportion. I suggest PSW rather than MSW because you may want to charge an e-bike battery or electric toothbrush (or something else) that might object to anything less. Before we go further, perhaps you can confirm that you're not planning to add a microwave?

 

[autorouter]

Sorry but we are new to this and assumed that the use of such a large inverter along with 4 leisure batteries was to enable the use of kettles, hairdryers etc without any issues.

Yes, that's the intention. With around 400Ah of battery and a1500W PSW inverter, you should be able to run all that. Careful with the kettle, normal house kettles are 2 to 3 kW, so best to use a small kettle or travel kettle, up to1000W.

The only issue will be how to refill the batteries once they are run down. A good B2B will recharge them from the engine, but for example a 70A B2B will take 4 hours to charge from 50% to 100%. If you are on EHU you can top up ready for a day or two off-grid. 150W of solar won't contribute a great deal, you'd need 3 or 4 times that to make an impact on 400Ah of battery.

If you have gas, you have a choice - the convenience of electric appliances when on EHU or overnight stops between long drives. Or long offgrid stays using gas for kettle, oven etc, when the solar will make relatively more of a contribution.

 

[jezport]

the inverter we have at the moment is a modified sine. I suspect that it has worked fine for the last
10years. The size of it explains why we have 4 leisure batteries to run it. But the question is do we
need such a big inverter, if not what size would we get away with??

As its modified sinewave I think you are expecting too much.

I'd be looking at the cheapo 1500/3000W pure sine waves off fleebay. I bought a 3000/6000W version and it works fine for dumb electrical things (hair dryer, iron, hoover) although it's a bit erratic for more precious electrical items (laptop charges but mouse doesn't work, tooth brushes & shaver only charge about 75%)

Good no cheap. Cheap no good
And it may kill you! When you are fitting high ampage electrical equipment its not a good idea to buy crap!!

 

[sibs]

Yes, that's the intention. With around 400Ah of battery and a1500W PSW inverter, you should be able to run all that. Careful with the kettle, normal house kettles are 2 to 3 kW, so best to use a small kettle or travel kettle, up to1000W.

The only issue will be how to refill the batteries once they are run down. A good B2B will recharge them from the engine, but for example a 70A B2B will take 4 hours to charge from 50% to 100%. If you are on EHU you can top up ready for a day or two off-grid. 150W of solar won't contribute a great deal, you'd need 3 or 4 times that to make an impact on 400Ah of battery.

If you have gas, you have a choice - the convenience of electric appliances when on EHU or overnight stops between long drives. Or long offgrid stays using gas for kettle, oven etc, when the solar will make relatively more of a contribution.

Thank you, yes we have gas also. Our kettle is a travel one 1000w. We are careful only to use i appliance at a time along with possibly the tv on. Really just wanted to know if we would get away with a smaller inverter.
2100 seems a bit overkill. We hope to split out travelling 50/50 wild and EHU. Also expect solars to be working better in Europe than not so sunny scotland.

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[sibs]

Your electricity via inverter is likely to be much more expensive per kWh than gas in the first place. That is one reason I say "never use your batteries to create heat". The other reason is that the power available from (most) battery banks is only modest. There are exceptions, though, and we've already discussed hair dryers. Where did the toaster 'pop up' from? It's generating heat, so not kind to batteries and you may have a grill (?) Avoid toasters if at all possible. We have toast at home but not in the motorhome. Another exception might be a coffee-maker (which you have not dared mention yet). I avoid them by using a stove-top Moka pot (which produces excellent coffee).
Cheapo inverters are modified sine wave (MSW). Their waveform can be anything from square to trapezoidal. Fine for kettles and toasters but not so good for some things with sensitive electronics. Hair curlers (and even some hair dryers) can refuse to work. I've read that some devices can be damaged by such waveforms but not experienced this myself. As you move to pure sine wave (PSW) the waveform becomes much smoother. I'm not sure at what point a PSW is deemed to have been achieved but suspect that the cheaper models are not quite as 'pure' as the more expensive ones - yet are probably good enough. You get what you pay for, but not in proportion. I suggest PSW rather than MSW because you may want to charge an e-bike battery or electric toothbrush (or something else) that might object to anything less. Before we go further, perhaps you can confirm that you're not planning to add a microwave?

Thanks, its fine on the coffeee front we also have a stove top mokka, and we have no intentions of adding in a microwave

 

[sibs]

Good luck with the advise you have received. You make mention that the system was installed by Van Bitz back in 2005. As you say the cabling you would assume would be correct upon installation and you have fitted new batteries. You are going back into the workshop at the end of the month. Is that with whom you bought the vehicle. My experience is unless something is obviously broken the answer will be" you are plugging in to much' I suggest you contact Van Bitz. It maybe that your inverter MAY need upgrading to accommodate your new add on bits that need power. If your batteries are in good order it could be that you are simply drawing to much. All is not lost. A way round additional power could be the installation of a Stirling B2B charger. This will recharge your leisure batteries quicker. We have one installed and also use this as a form of mini generator. When requiring items that draw a high load I start the engine and wait for the B2B to engage and then turn on inverter for the heavy task in hand (normally running good ladies Dyson hear dryer 1500 w and also to help batteries with the toaster. That way my batteries do not power down as the B2B produces sufficient to assist the batteries. This has been used a lot in these shorter days and lower sun in the UK when the solar panels struggle to keep up with charge into the batteries .

Thank you for your help. we also have a stirling B2B fitted. Didnt think about starting engine to take pressure off leisure batteries, sounds like a good idea

 

[two]

B2B is wonderful.
Running the engine (hence the B2B) will ease the stain on the batteries.

 

[PeteH]

In the end, It`s all about the "Sums". (Output=Input - any "losses"). I must have been lucky I ran a 32" T-V, all sorts of "domestic" stuff inc; Hairdryers (never the kettle) Charged the Mobility Scooter, and a "Nebuliser" from a Ring 3Kw MSW inverter, in the last R-V, when Marshalling at Festivals. We did have the backup of a 4kw onboard Gen; but rarely used it. Apart from the T-V which went with the R-V, most of the other stuff has survived unscathed. 4 house batteries and 600W of solar.

Edit:- another "advantage" was to be able to use "low" amp EHU. I switched the breakers, and only the Charger (40A) was being run off the EHU. The R-V ran off the Inverter.

 

[MichaelT]

When you replaced the batteries have you made sure they are all connected properly and all bolts tight and you have a good earth?

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