Fashion or necessity?

[PaulW2]

There is a fair bit of discussion here about electric cars versus ICE engines, with a spectrum of opinions and two clear poles.

On the one side those who say things like net zero is oversold, and if anything we should invest more in mitigation of climate change rather than trying to control it. Electric cars are (still) too limited, there isn't enough of an infrastructure, we can't be sure what future tax policy (and energy costs) will be and so forth.

On the other side the end of fossil fuel is inevitable, we need to embrace the change. And we should pollute less and be more concerned about the environment, polar bears and children. Real men eat plants.

And there is obviously a spectrum of opinions in between.

Then - and this is my question - we also have some of the motorhome-related tech changes. We often hear that we should have the biggest possible lithium battery banks, as many solar panels as possible, compressor rather than 3-way fridges, induction hobs rather than gas, and so on.

It is really interesting, but in this case we seem to have a shortage of people on the other side of this debate - I don't notice too many people saying "Well, who needs this new-fangled stuff? My leisure battery may (possibly) now be lithium but I use gas for most things and it works very well, thank you very much. My 3-way fridge gives me good flexibility and works well."

What do you think is going on? Is there a real "business case" for doing as much as possible using batteries rather than gas or is it fashion?

 

[Spriddler]

Stop buying plastic crap from China would be one solution to some of it, possibly the biggest CO2 producer on the planet, but why do we need so much air and sea traffic constantly?

Exactly.

 

[Ray-Vic]

Nobody has mentioned aviation, shipping etc. Surely 2 of the biggest consumers of oil?

Take a look on flight radar or marine traffic and the amount of traffic is staggering. Why?
Stop buying plastic crap from China would be one solution to some of it, possibly the biggest CO2 producer on the planet, but why do we need so much air and sea traffic constantly?

I did in post #39. I noted transportation, which includes these methods, accounts for more than 60% of our global fossil fuel use. By far the biggest, with industry (factories etc) being in second place, but at 27%, so a fair chunk behind.

 

[Plynchy]

Depends which source you quote, but I'm very surprised to read that shipping and aviation come in around 2% each, thought it would be much higher.

As expected, China by far the biggest producer of C02 globally.

 

[Sleeveless]

Energy density in fossil fuels is many, many times greater than lithium batteries.

A lithium battery is simply an energy storage device and doesn't actually produce any energy as such .

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[PaulW2]

A large part of the problem is, I think that we tend to assume that other people attach value to the same sort of things that we do, in roughly the same sort of order.

So we all agree that destroying nature is bad, our hearts bleed for the biodiversity, we're concerned about not leaving an unhabitable planet and so on. We think it's just logical, obvious.

But as David Hume famously said, it is "not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger".

We need something else - a sense of moral order - that doesn't just rely on pure reason. And this thing is a belief system that we acquire culturally.

As we've seen from Russian propagandists during their current war, they sometimes maintain that there is no point to there being a world, or humanity, if Russia can't have a dominant position in it. Do they believe this? I think some do.

What do the Chinese think about things, and what weight do they attach to the different pieces of the puzzle? I think it's safe to say that world domination and breaking the Western "hegemony" ranks pretty high.

 

[Jon Stewart]

A lithium battery is simply an energy storage device and doesn't actually produce any energy as such .

I think you misunderstood my post.

Both are energy stores.
Fossil fuels store chemical energy.
Batteries store electrical energy.

Energy density (of stored energy) has nothing to do with type of energy stored.

Hope this helps.

 

[PaulW2]

But as David Hume famously said, it is "not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger".

Speaking of David Hume, is he not a dead ringer for Alex Salmond?

 

[Gromett]

A lithium battery is simply an energy storage device and doesn't actually produce any energy as such .

Replace "lithium battery" with oil or gas and the sentence still stands.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I won't be moving to lithium - I don't need more power.

Shouldn't we be trying to use less of everything?

Most use their. MHs occasionally - why the need for more solar and batteries?

If it's not needed why?

My 2001 Aclass still runs 1 lead acid leisure battery, 1 solar panel, 2 x 6kg Calor bottles.

I average about 6k miles a year and rarely use sites........

I use my van as a Camping Car not a mobile home......

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[dunnah01]

As expected, China by far the biggest producer of C02 globally.

But you've produced way more CO2 than the average Chinese person.

 

[Jon Stewart]

But you produce way more CO2 than the average Chinese person.

Misses the point that there are rather a lot more Chinese peeps who need power.

Except those living away from cities that don't need any power, apparently.

Unlike in the civilised world, where almost everybody has a connection to electric and clean drinking water.

 

[PaulW2]

But you produce way more CO2 than the average Chinese person.

And there's a whole argument there.

"You had your industrial revolution, you burned coal for centuries, and now that we're gaining our own economic balance you want to choke us off. We can see what you're doing."

 

[PaulW2]

Unlike in the civilised world, where almost everybody has a connection to electric and clean drinking water.

"What do you think of Western civilisation?"

"It would be a good idea."

 

[jockaneezer]

A piece on the radio last week said that the UK's CO2 output per year is now matched by China's, but every eleven days by them.

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[dunnah01]

World CO2 production is more than China's so surely it's a global problem and solution.

 

[Jon Stewart]

World CO2 production is more than China's so surely it's a global problem and solution.

CO2 production isn't a problem.

See King Cnut for explanation.

 

[Jon Stewart]

"What do you think of Western civilisation?"

"It would be a good idea."

Note that I never used the term 'Western'!