Exploding Batteries

[Nangie]

I think everyone who posts about 'Lithium batteries' should differentiate whether they are talking about Lithium-Ion or LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate).

Lithium-Ion can be a danger in fires because they self-produce oxygen to sustain a fire regardless of suppression methods. These are used in many devices, such as mobile phones, computers and e-bikes.

LiFePo4 do not do this and are the type sold as leisure batteries for MHs. They are less of a fire risk.

Thankyou for that info Nicholsong, my van is away having lithium batteries fitted as we speak. After recent events and reports I was beginning to wonder if I had made the wrong decision! They are LifePo4, so I will now stop worrying.

 

[GAVLAD]

After attending a house fire in Halifax earlier this year with 6 kids inside, it was found that the cause was an E motorbike being charged in the kitchen. Fortunately the occupant had a Hive Cctv camera and caught the moment the batteries caught fire and exploded. If you Google it, the footage is there to see.
Afterwards, I did some research for my brigade complete with a presentation to fire crews of what to look out for whilst visiting homes and premises for safety visits that we do. My findings are that in the majority of occasions of fires involving lithium batteries, the make and type of Li-ion battery wasn’t known by owner and nor was where it had been sourced from. Ie, second hand, eBay, Ali Baba etc. they have no way of knowing if the battery or charger were specifically for the product or how good the product components are. In some cases, DIY kits had been used to make a scooter or bike into an electric version.
What I’m getting at is that if you decide to go down the lithium battery route for your leisure batteries, buy a reputable brand from a reputable outlet and by following their instructions and T&Cs, I am sure you will be fine given installation has been done correctly.
Plus, you won’t be charging the lithium batteries in your house.

 

[Madcaravanner]

The main issue seems to be cheap imports of vapes, scooters and e-bikes.
Not top of the range vehicle lithium batteries.

I'd go ahead with your internal upgrade to Lithium vehicle batteries.
But if you are charging your e-bike, I'd ensure its outside of your van/house in case it explodes.

So that's why so many Parisian buses have exploded

It all depends on whether
the charger is clever enough to switch off when full
or whether the battery is damaged
or the battery is wet they hate water so if not water tight cased you got big trouble

 

[airwave]

Just for context, in 2013 the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner passenger airliners were grounded due to problems with spontaneous battery fires. The design philosopy was basically to replace traditional hydraulics with all-electric systems, so the batteries were mega-important.

Proves professional designers and engineers do make mistakes.

Next, Boeing's 737 MAX ....

Actually Speedy , it would appear Mercedes have a problem right now . I don't know the current situation , as i've not been following the story , but there was a ship on fire in the north sea . 1 person was killed and several injured , due to toxic fumes . Turns out the boat was carrying 500 merks , the majority around 300-350 were EV's . It seems this is the second boat were this has happened , and it was reported , accident investigators had proved it was one of the electrics that caused it . Comments stated there was an issue with the thermal control system on these batteries , which Mercedes are using , but to be fair , don't know if they are in house , or an external supplier .

 

[Gromett]

and it was reported , accident investigators had proved it was one of the electrics that caused it

Not true yet. WAYYYYY to early for an accident investigator to make any conclusion yet. In fact I would be extremely surprised if the investigators have even been on the ship yet.
It will most likely need to be somewhere safe and confirmed out before they go on board.

Currently, they do not know what "started" the fire.

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[rangi]

Not true yet. WAYYYYY to early for an accident investigator to make any conclusion yet. In fact I would be extremely surprised if the investigators have even been on the ship yet.
It will most likely need to be somewhere safe and confirmed out before they go on board.

Currently, they do not know what "started" the fire.

It'll be a EV that was the source, battery damaged by grounding on the linkspan while being loaded. Am willing to donate £100 to the RNLI if I'm wrong!

 

[Gromett]

It'll be a EV that was the source, battery damaged by grounding on the linkspan while being loaded. Am willing to donate £100 to the RNLI if I'm wrong!

What about an electrical fire on either the ship or in one of the ICE vehicles containing petrol? With the fire then agravated by EV's?

 

[bigtwin]

What I’m getting at is that if you decide to go down the lithium battery route for your leisure batteries, buy a reputable brand from a reputable outlet and by following their instructions and T&Cs, I am sure you will be fine given installation has been done correctly.

Good advice but, as is often the case, ignores the fundamental difference between LiFePo4 batteries and other lithium types so just perpetuates the myth that ‘lithium’ batteries are potentially dangerous.

Lead acid batteries explode, LiFePo4 batteries don’t.

Ian

 

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[GAVLAD]

Good advice but, as is often the case, ignores the fundamental difference between LiFePo4 batteries and other lithium types so just perpetuates the myth that ‘lithium’ batteries are potentially dangerous.

Lead acid batteries explode, LiFePo4 batteries don’t.

Ian

You’re right, lead batteries can explode. The difference is that not many people charge a 12v lead battery in their kitchen or hallway and also the thermal runaway is huge on a lithium battery with little or no indication of failure until it fails

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[bigtwin]

You’re right, lead batteries can explode. The difference is that not many people charge a 12v lead battery in their kitchen or hallway and also the thermal runaway is huge on a lithium battery with little or no indication of failure until it fails

My comment was directed at your advice regarding MH leisure batteries. Motorhome LiFePo4 batteries don’t suffer from thermal runaway so your comment, again, perpetuates a falsehood.

Ian

 

[GAVLAD]

You’re right, lead batteries can explode. The difference is that not many people charge a 12v lead battery in their kitchen or hallway and also the thermal runaway is huge on a lithium battery with little or no indication of failure until it fails

I forgot to add, the LiFePo4 batteries are supposedly safer than their equivalent Lithium batteries and last longer. Unfortunately the media only pick up on the current day to day incidents and these seem to focus on e bikes & scooters and most of these are being charged in homes when they catch fire. I’m sure as EV become more popular and older, and repairs are made, such incidents will increase.
All this said, if I was the OP, it wouldn’t put me off changing my leisure batteries.

 

[GAVLAD]

My comment was directed at your advice regarding MH leisure batteries. Motorhome LiFePo4 batteries don’t suffer from thermal runaway so your comment, again, perpetuates a falsehood.

Ian

Just re-reading my post, I never quoted LiFePo4, the OP had mentioned lithium which is what my post mentioned. And I stand by my comments that you quoted me on. If a lithium battery of reputable brand from reputable outlet fit correctly should be fine. It’s you who’s quoted to me about LiFePo4.
I’ve agreed with you that LiFePo4 seem a safer and last longer choice, I’ve not referred to them regarding a thermal runaway - so I don’t know why you have again quoted me as saying my comment again perpetuates a falsehood?
Please read my post before quoting me and accusing.

 

[bigtwin]

What I’m getting at is that if you decide to go down the lithium battery route for your leisure batteries

The above was your first reference to leisure batteries. This statement implies, as do all those on social media and in the mainstream press, that leisure batteries, all of which are LiFePo4 (a key point), exhibit the same characteristics as ‘lithium’ batteries; they do not. Hence it is important to differentiate appropriately.

I forgot to add, the LiFePo4 batteries are supposedly safer than their equivalent Lithium batteries and last longer.

This is the key statement that you omitted that prompted my initial comment. There is no doubt that they are safer than ‘lithium’ batteries; the evidence is overwhelming.

I never quoted LiFePo4,

Agreed, but you quoted leisure batteries, all of which are LiFePo4.

the OP had mentioned lithium which is what my post mentioned.

Indeed, but as soon as you introduced leisure batteries into the conversation it is necessary to differentiate the two types. Leisure batteries do not exhibit the characteristics highlighted in the OP.

I’ve agreed with you that LiFePo4 seem a safer and last longer choice

Your agreement came after my responses though. We are in agreement that they ARE safer.

I’ve not referred to them regarding a thermal runaway

No, because when you introduced leisure batteries into the conversation you didn’t differentiate the two battery types and, for clarity, I pointed out that LiFePo4 doesn’t suffer from those characteristics.

Anyhow, I think that we now have clarity, and a common understanding, that LiFePo4 Leisure Batteries are safer than the oft reported problematic ‘lithium’ batteries.

Ian

 

[rangi]

What about an electrical fire on either the ship or in one of the ICE vehicles containing petrol? With the fire then agravated by EV's?

My experience with Car carriers during 8 1/2 years RO-RO was they have enough gas to get off the truck, get on and off the ship

And if you want to wander into supposition , how about a crew member acting as a "lone Wolf" terriorist from the JUST STOP OIL smuggled a bomb on board (bearing in mind that a crew member died) and set it off by accident while arming it?

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[autorouter]

And if you want to wander into supposition , how about a crew member acting as a "lone Wolf" terriorist from the JUST STOP OIL smuggled a bomb on board (bearing in mind that a crew member died) and set it off by accident while arming it?

Most unlikely, in my opinion. More likely someone who hates electric vehicles and also hates China. Plenty of those around, I believe.

 

[NR]

I use an inline countdown timer to cut the power when the manufacturers recommended charging cycle has completed. In most cases no power, no problem. Would never consider leaving a charger connected for days relying on a smart circuit to control the process.

 

[Reallyretired]

I nearly had a lead acid battery explode. It had deformed and was bulging seriously. The reason was the 'professional' who fitted it forgot to remove the breather plugs that were in it for transit.