European Vets that have issued EU Pet Passports to Brits since Brexit (1 Viewer)

[maz]

Yes, I don't think it is an EU rule at the moment, just something issued to vets within certain countries for reasons of their own. There's such an obvious difference between the response of vets in France compared to other countries that it has to be the case. They are happy enough to certify the worming and administer vaccinations on request so it can't just be them being awkward and taking against Brits.

I don't think it's even as coherent as that. It usually just boils down to vets trying to apply their country's rules for resident dogs to non-residents, without giving any thought as to whether it makes sense.

While EU Reg 576/2013 is in force there can be no requirement for residency in order to use an EU Pet Passport. All EU countries have to apply that Regulation in the same way. If there is to be a future residency requirement it will occur when EU 576/2013 is replaced by EU 2016/429 on 21 April 2026. At the moment that Regulation has no direct replacement for Article 27 of EU 576/2013. If there is to be the same derogation it will appear in a 'delegated regulation' - one that consults expert groups from each EU country in its formulation. If the expert groups include French vets ........ who knows?

 

[Boaty]

I don't think it's even as coherent as that. It usually just boils down to vets trying to apply their country's rules for resident dogs to non-residents, without giving any thought as to whether it makes sense.

While EU Reg 576/2013 is in force there can be no requirement for residency in order to use an EU Pet Passport. All EU countries have to apply that Regulation in the same way. If there is to be a future residency requirement it will occur when EU 576/2013 is replaced by EU 2016/429 on 21 April 2026. At the moment that Regulation has no direct replacement for Article 27 of EU 576/2013. If there is to be the same derogation it will appear in a 'delegated regulation' - one that consults expert groups from each EU country in its formulation. If the expert groups include French vets ........ who knows?

Vets authorised to issue a pet passport are regulated by each country which has interpreted the EU regulations. Each country may and do differ in practice.

 

[maz]

Vets authorised to issue a pet passport are regulated by each country which has interpreted the EU regulations. Each country may and do differ in practice.

Yes, I know that. But even vets within the same country (most notably France but also Belgium) do not apply the EU regulations in a uniform manner. No-one has yet managed to come up with any official 'directive' from any EU country forbidding the issue of Pet Passports to non-residents.

 

[Aireworth]

Yes, I know that. But even vets within the same country (most notably France but also Belgium) do not apply the EU regulations in a uniform manner. No-one has yet managed to come up with any official 'directive' from any EU country forbidding the issue of Pet Passports to non-residents.

Yet I think its pretty obvious is that French vets have been told only to issue PPs to dogs with a French residence and registered on their icad system. You're not going to see a bit of paper though.
But I think the whole situation is a bit more grey than you seem to think. The issuance of PPs to non EU resident dogs is permitted under the EU regs - but only by default. It isn't specifically affirmatively endorsed in the regs, but it isn't banned so its allowed to continue. When the PP legislation was passed the situation we're in now - with Britain no longer a member of the EU- was most probably never considered. When it does come up for review I would think there's a very good chance it will banned - especially if relations with the EU remain as they are ATM. And that will have nothing to do with French vets, IMO, although it might have something to do with the French government.
As for vets in EU countries other than France having differing interpretation of the regs - I think this will stem largely from indifference and not wanting to get involved in a grey area. Some, certainly have seen it as a opportunity, but my understanding is that vets in northern Europe are busy and understaffed the same as those in the UK. Easier just to say no.

All EU countries have to apply that Regulation in the same way.

When I saw that I literally laughed out loud. Boaty covered the point, but its amazing how differently EU member states can interpret the rules, I can assure you.

 

[Aireworth]

In the meantime, many vets in the uk are making hay while the sun shines charging up to £250 per AHC

Anyone still paying £250 for an AHC in the UK just isn't looking. Plenty of one man bands issuing them for around 1/3rd of that.
Any vets still charging £250 for an AHC are doing so for only one reason - they don't want to do them.

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[maz]

Yet I think its pretty obvious is that French vets have been told only to issue PPs to dogs with a French residence and registered on their icad system. You're not going to see a bit of paper though.
But I think the whole situation is a bit more grey than you seem to think. The issuance of PPs to non EU resident dogs is permitted under the EU regs - but only by default. It isn't specifically affirmatively endorsed in the regs, but it isn't banned so its allowed to continue. When the PP legislation was passed the situation we're in now - with Britain no longer a member of the EU- was most probably never considered. When it does come up for review I would think there's a very good chance it will banned - especially if relations with the EU remain as they are ATM. And that will have nothing to do with French vets, IMO, although it might have something to do with the French government.
As for vets in EU countries other than France having differing interpretation of the regs - I think this will stem largely from indifference and not wanting to get involved in a grey area. Some, certainly have seen it as a opportunity, but my understanding is that vets in northern Europe are busy and understaffed the same as those in the UK. Easier just to say no.


When I saw that I literally laughed out loud. Boaty covered the point, but its amazing how differently EU member states can interpret the rules, I can assure you.

It's only 'obvious' on the basis that 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong. The misinterpretations of that 'Br*x*t statement' on the I-cad website are now legendary.

The French Ministry of Agriculture in their 'Br*x*t-related issues' publication have stated that if you live in Great Britain you can use an EU Pet Passport instead of an AHC to enter the EU, so it would seem that the French government do not have any issues with residency. However, there have been many reports of French vets who do.

You may laugh as much as you like but EU member states are not free to interpret EU 576/2013 as they see fit. They all have to apply it in exactly the same way. Article 27 clearly states the derogation that pet animals from third countries may enter the EU using an EU Pet Passport instead of an AHC. In other words, no EU country may decide for itself not to let in pet animals travelling on an EU Pet Passport. This effectively makes a nonsense of any perceived residency requirement.

 

[sjmackenzie]

Another vote for Dierenarts Vets in Brugge. Dr Lieve De Ryke is the vet. She owns the practice and she was absolutely fantastic with our cat, Ned last Autumn. She also speaks perfect English. In October 2023, she did a 3 year rabies jab for Ned, then issued his passport using our UK address. No issues at all with that. We had the passport checked by the officials at the French Eurotunnel port on our return trip from Brugge (even though Ned was still covered by the AHC for that trip) just to be sure all was OK and they confirmed all was good with the passport. We have since used the passport on a trip to France and Spain in March and again, all was good. We went out via Eurotunnel and back via Britanny Ferries from Bilbao and neither pet passport inspectors raised any concerns whatsoever with his passport. We simply scanned his chip, showed the passport and went straight through. We will schedule another trip to Brugge in October 2026 for his booster; a great excuse to go to Brugge again! As others have commented, there is ample room to park a motorhome in a layby just around the corner from the vet in a residential area. It's then a five minute walk to the vet. Address is Barrierestraat 10, 8200 St Michiels, Brugge. Tel: 050 392679. Ned looked quite shocked to be told he was now a Belgian National.



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This is fantastic help. Thanks for your post. Sorry for follow up Q's but just getting my head round this thread.

1. Now you have the Belgian pet passport, you don't need the AHC each time you re-enter the EU?
2. Do you still need to get worming done for each return to the UK?

 

[Aireworth]

It's only 'obvious' on the basis that 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong. The misinterpretations of that 'Br*x*t statement' on the I-cad website are now legendary.

The French Ministry of Agriculture in their 'Br*x*t-related issues' publication have stated that if you live in Great Britain you can use an EU Pet Passport instead of an AHC to enter the EU, so it would seem that the French government do not have any issues with residency. However, there have been many reports of French vets who do.

You may laugh as much as you like but EU member states are not free to interpret EU 576/2013 as they see fit. They all have to apply it in exactly the same way. Article 27 clearly states the derogation that pet animals from third countries may enter the EU using an EU Pet Passport instead of an AHC. In other words, no EU country may decide for itself not to let in pet animals travelling on an EU Pet Passport. This effectively makes a nonsense of any perceived residency requirement.

I think any communication the vets will have had on this issue will not have been on the Icad website and will have nothing to do with what is there. If we were getting instructions on this sort of thing in the UK it would come in the from of a confidential update from APHA. I imagine the French have a similar system.

And as I understand it UK folks with French residences can still get a PP for their dogs in France with their French address and icad registration.

I find it difficult to extrapolate from France allowing UK dogs on an EU passport to enter France to mean that all EU countries must allow their vets to issue PPs to non resident dogs. They are related, but separate issues.

 

[Mr David]

I think any communication the vets will have had on this issue will not have been on the Icad website and will have nothing to do with what is there. If we were getting instructions on this sort of thing in the UK it would come in the from of a confidential update from APHA. I imagine the French have a similar system.

And as I understand it UK folks with French residences can still get a PP for their dogs in France with their French address and icad registration.

I find it difficult to extrapolate from France allowing UK dogs on an EU passport to enter France to mean that all EU countries must allow their vets to issue PPs to non resident dogs. They are related, but separate issues.

Since when have laws become confidential???

 

[Aireworth]

Since when have laws become confidential???

The laws aren't confidential. Most EU law that I've been involved in (meat, animal products and petfood) have powers delegated to a "competent authority" in every EU state - in the UK prior to Brexit that was APHA (or it predecessors). These rules and communication I'm talking about are set under the delegated elements of the UK legislation that enacts the EU directives. The details of the local implementation, if you like.
The outcomes of these rules isn't confidential either - many a time I'd have to go to a UK exporter and say "we've been told now before we can certify X we now have to see evidence of Y" ( or some such). They might complain, they might even on occasion have got in touch with APHA to clarify but I've never been asked to see the communication I got from APHA.
And that's the same as the case here - We've been told that French vets have been told not to issue PP unless there's a French address and an icad registration. We haven't seen the documentation. I'd not expect to. French vets will have to be authorised by the relevant French government department - become an Official Veterinarian in the EU parlance - to issue PPs and have a contractual relationship with the French government as well. Part of that will, most probably, be related to confidentiality. Overstep the mark and you could loose your Official Veterinarian status - which is not just PPs but possibly a lot of other stuff, which may well be far more financially important to some vets (especially rural ones)

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[Mr David]

The laws aren't confidential. Most EU law that I've been involved in (meat, animal products and petfood) have powers delegated to a "competent authority" in every EU state - in the UK prior to Brexit that was APHA (or it predecessors). These rules and communication I'm talking about are set under the delegated elements of the UK legislation that enacts the EU directives. The details of the local implementation, if you like.
The outcomes of these rules isn't confidential either - many a time I'd have to go to a UK exporter and say "we've been told now before we can certify X we now have to see evidence of Y" ( or some such). They might complain, they might even on occasion have got in touch with APHA to clarify but I've never been asked to see the communication I got from APHA.
And that's the same as the case here - We've been told that French vets have been told not to issue PP unless there's a French address and an icad registration. We haven't seen the documentation. I'd not expect to. French vets will have to be authorised by the relevant French government department - become an Official Veterinarian in the EU parlance - to issue PPs and have a contractual relationship with the French government as well. Part of that will, most probably, be related to confidentiality. Overstep the mark and you could loose your Official Veterinarian status - which is not just PPs but possibly a lot of other stuff, which may well be far more financially important to some vets (especially rural ones)

Any 'directive' saying that it is illegal to issue Pet Passports to non residents is meaningless unless it is backed up in law. Nobody has produced that law or is that law confidential!!

 

[Aireworth]

There will be no "directive". Its just a local rule. Its backed up by the law that gives delegated powers to the competent authority in the member state.
Anyway its a lovely day I'm off to enjoy the sun.

 

[maz]

I think any communication the vets will have had on this issue will not have been on the Icad website and will have nothing to do with what is there. If we were getting instructions on this sort of thing in the UK it would come in the from of a confidential update from APHA. I imagine the French have a similar system.

And as I understand it UK folks with French residences can still get a PP for their dogs in France with their French address and icad registration.

I find it difficult to extrapolate from France allowing UK dogs on an EU passport to enter France to mean that all EU countries must allow their vets to issue PPs to non resident dogs. They are related, but separate issues.

You seem to be missing the point. Why would the French government in the form of the French Ministry of Agriculture (who deal with such matters) forbid their vets to issue Pet Passports to non-residents when the same entity has clearly stated that they can be used by non-residents? The answer is that they haven't - which is why no such evidence exists.

 

[Mr David]

There will be no "directive". Its just a local rule. Its backed up by the law that gives delegated powers to the competent authority in the member state.
Anyway its a lovely day I'm off to enjoy the sun.

Where is this law then. Or is it confidential.

 

[maz]

We've been told that French vets have been told not to issue PP unless there's a French address and an icad registration. We haven't seen the documentation. I'd not expect to. French vets will have to be authorised by the relevant French government department - become an Official Veterinarian in the EU parlance - to issue PPs and have a contractual relationship with the French government as well. Part of that will, most probably, be related to confidentiality. Overstep the mark and you could loose your Official Veterinarian status - which is not just PPs but possibly a lot of other stuff, which may well be far more financially important to some vets (especially rural ones)

That 'we've been told' just about sums up the entire argument on the side of 'residents only'. No evidence, only hearsay.

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[Aireworth]

You seem to be missing the point. Why would the French government in the form of the French Ministry of Agriculture (who deal with such matters) forbid their vets to issue Pet Passports to non-residents when the same entity has clearly stated that they can be used by non-residents? The answer is that they haven't - which is why no such evidence exists.

All the evidence we've seen clearly suggests they have. Why do you think allowing UK resident dogs with EU PPs into France equates with allowing their vets to issue PPs to non qualifying UK dogs?

 

[maz]

This is fantastic help. Thanks for your post. Sorry for follow up Q's but just getting my head round this thread.

1. Now you have the Belgian pet passport, you don't need the AHC each time you re-enter the EU?
2. Do you still need to get worming done for each return to the UK?

Hi and welcome to the Fun!


In answer to your questions:

1. Yes, an EU Pet Passport means no more AHCs provided you keep the rabies vaccinations up to date. These must be administered by an EU vet.

2. Worming must still be done to return to the UK.

 

[Aireworth]

Where is this law then. Or is it confidential.

The law or rule isn't confidential - we've been told many times French vets can't issue PPs to non resident dogs. The communication which passed that rule to the vets may well have been made through a channel which is confidential.

 

[maz]

All the evidence we've seen clearly suggests they have. Why do you think allowing UK resident dogs with EU PPs into France equates with allowing their vets to issue PPs to non qualifying UK dogs?

What 'evidence'? You don't have any.

I think logically, as explained in post #343.

 

[Aireworth]

That 'we've been told' just about sums up the entire argument on the side of 'residents only'. No evidence, only hearsay.

That's not hearsay. Its directly from the (French vets) horse's mouth. Many times. With no dissent. You're not going to get your piece of paper.

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[Aireworth]

What 'evidence'? You don't have any.

I think logically, as explained in post #343.

The evidence of all the French vets who have said they are no longer allowed to issue PPs to UK dogs.
You're expecting the French authorities to act as you think they should. They haven't.

 

[maz]

That's not hearsay. Its directly from the (French vets) horse's mouth. Many times. With no dissent. You're not going to get your piece of paper.

Of course it's hearsay! A lot of French vets have said a lot of nonsensical things about EU Pet Passports, and most of them just blindly quote from the garbled 'Br*x*t statement' on the I-cad website. For many of them this no doubt suits their own narrative of what Brits shouldn't be 'allowed to get away with'.

 

[Mr David]

I'm tired of being told something is illegal when the law that says its legal has be quoted many times. If it is illegal then prove it! Nobody has been able to prove it illegal. Imagine being in a court of law and being told you have done something illegal but the prosecution cannot produce that law. The case would be dismissed.

That's not hearsay. Its directly from the (French vets) horse's mouth. Many times. With no dissent. You're not going to get your piece of paper.

The law or rule isn't confidential - we've been told many times French vets can't issue PPs to non resident dogs. The communication which passed that rule to the vets may well have been made through a channel which is confidential.

Have any French Vets product evidence of this 'rule' - No I didn't think so.

 

[maz]

The evidence of all the French vets who have said they are no longer allowed to issue PPs to UK dogs.
You're expecting the French authorities to act as you think they should. They haven't.

As per post #352, that is not 'evidence'.

As you are so sure that EU Pet Passports cannot be issued to non-residents, can we take it that you will no longer be seeking to obtain one for your own dog next month?

 

[Aireworth]

As per post #352, that is not 'evidence'.

As you are so sure that EU Pet Passports cannot be issued to non-residents, can we take it that you will no longer be seeking to obtain one for your own dog next month?

Its all the evidence we need, have or are likely to get.
I will indeed be getting a PP for my dog next month - appointment booked!
I never said that PPs couldn't be issued to non residents - only that the French authorities appear to have forbidden French vets in France not to issue them. But it is, IMO a grey area.

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[Aireworth]

I'm tired of being told something is illegal when the law that says its legal has be quoted many times. If it is illegal then prove it! Nobody has been able to prove it illegal. Imagine being in a court of law and being told you have done something illegal but the prosecution cannot produce that law. The case would be dismissed.


Have any French Vets product evidence of this 'rule' - No I didn't think so.

It's not illegal - but French vets would appear to have been instructed not to issue PPs to non resident dogs. Its a French regulatory issue, not a legal one. and vets are a regulated profession -

 

[sjmackenzie]

Hi and welcome to the Fun!


In answer to your questions:

1. Yes, an EU Pet Passport means no more AHCs provided you keep the rabies vaccinations up to date. These must be administered by an EU vet.

2. Worming must still be done to return to the UK.

Great. Thanks so much for your help.

So upon getting my dog's pet passport in the EU, I'll also need to get new rabies vaccinations (even though her vaccines are up to date, but have been administered by UK vets) by the EU vet?

 

[maz]

Its all the evidence we need, have or are likely to get.
I will indeed be getting a PP for my dog next month - appointment booked!
I never said that PPs couldn't be issued to non residents - only that the French authorities appear to have forbidden French vets in France not to issue them. But it is, IMO a grey area.

So the 'evidence' has been downgraded to 'an appearance'.

 

[Aireworth]

Its evidence enough for me.
What are you proposing as an alternative reason for vets not issuing PPs in France? That they were all frightened by a notice on a website?

 

[maz]

Great. Thanks so much for your help.

So upon getting my dog's pet passport in the EU, I'll also need to get new rabies vaccinations (even though her vaccines are up to date, but have been administered by UK vets) by the EU vet?

This depends on which country you obtain your Pet Passport in, and often on what a particular vet will or won't do.

In general, it is safer (in terms of correct Pet Passport completion) to have a new rabies vaccination administered at the same time as the Pet Passport is issued.

Pet Passports can be issued on the basis of transferred rabies vaccination details but you need to make sure that this is done correctly. In the Pets forum there is a copy of 'How to Complete Pet Passports' that explains what to look for.

It seems that the most likely country in which to obtain a Pet Passport with transferred rabies vaccination is Portugal. Our Minxy is the expert here.

In other countries you will generally need another rabies vaccination but this does not normally cause any problem for the dog. When my dog was a puppy 12 years ago it was normal for them to have two rabies vaccinations 3-4 weeks apart.

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