Electric Motorhomes at Scale, Can't be Far Away Now.

[gus-lopez]

Interested in payload. I wonder what the empty weight of an electric Ducato van is?

Tony

The 3500kg version has a payload of 690kgs with the big battery pack . & all of this does not include optional equipment.
The 4250kg version with the smallest battery pack has a payload of 1885kgs . Which appears to mean that the "big" battery pack weighs an additional 445kgs, if my maths is correct.

It would only be in using one as to see what range would be possible with smallest battery in largest vehicle-
HERE;

https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/fiat/ducato/2021-e-ducato-dimensions/

*** Oh & you cannot tow with either of them .there is no towing capacity

We can recharge at the equivalent of 1000 miles / hour, so 15 mins will add 250 miles on a good charging poin

I can run for nearly 700miles before filling. I fill & can run the same distance again inside 10 minutes.This is the major problem for me.Not being able to refill/recharge in minutes & completely

I can't imagine many manufacturers doing that though, for a start I doubt the base chassis manufacturers would allow it and secondly the habitation manufacturer won't risk you running down the traction battery to the point you can't get to a charge point, or even move off your wild camping spot.

They do.Ford pickup has outlets in the bed just for running equipment. The bloke I watch in Idaho knew his was useless for 6 months of the year regarding mileage,towing & the low temperatures but wanted to see how it would work running his off grid workshop & apartment from the bed sockets.It works far better than the vehicle is useful for as a means of transport in the winter

 

[The Wino]

The 3500kg version has a payload of 690kgs with the big battery pack . & all of this does not include optional equipment.
The 4250kg version with the smallest battery pack has a payload of 1885kgs . Which appears to mean that the "big" battery pack weighs an additional 445kgs, if my maths is correct.

It would only be in using one as to see what range would be possible with smallest battery in largest vehicle-
HERE;

https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/fiat/ducato/2021-e-ducato-dimensions/




I can run for nearly 700miles before filling. I fill & can run the same distance again inside 10 minutes.This is the major problem for me.Not being able to refill/recharge in minutes & completely

They do.Ford pickup has outlets in the bed just for running equipment. The bloke I watch in Idaho knew his was useless for 6 months of the year regarding mileage,towing & the low temperatures but wanted to see how it would work running his off grid workshop & apartment from the bed sockets.It works far better than the vehicle is useful for as a means of transport in the winter

If EVs are terrible in winter how do they manage in Norway where they have just reached the point of the majority of vehicles on the road are EVs and over 70% of new registrations are EVs?

 

[The Wino]

If EVs are terrible in winter how do they manage in Norway where they have just reached the point of the majority of vehicles on the road are EVs and over 70% of new registrations are EVs?

Sorry my figures we're wrong it's not 70%evs!

In August, all-electric vehicles made up a record 94.3% of new car registrations in Norway, boosted by sales of the Tesla Model Y

 

[Bobby dazzler]

So fully loaded and at normal speeds it should have at least 200 miles between charges Sounds okay to me.

Sounds pathetic to me it's 200 miles to the euro tunnel for me. And once aboard 200 miles is no distance at all

 

[gus-lopez]

If EVs are terrible in winter how do they manage in Norway where they have just reached the point of the majority of vehicles on the road are EVs and over 70% of new registrations are EVs?

Perhaps they are not using F150 Lightning pick ups? Perhaps they are like most in many countries & the UK who barely drive any distance & really should be using other means of transport?

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[Bobby dazzler]

How much will they be ev motorhomes ? 100k.

 

[gus-lopez]

Sorry my figures we're wrong it's not 70%evs!

In August, all-electric vehicles made up a record 94.3% of new car registrations in Norway, boosted by sales of the Tesla Model Y

& remember the Norwegian government ships its oap¡s over here,& has done as long as we have lived here,for the winter as it is cheaper for them .

 

[The Wino]

& remember the Norwegian government ships its oap¡s over here,& has done as long as we have lived here,for the winter as it is cheaper for them .

I bet there would be a few volunteers from here!

 

[Tombola]

Perhaps they are not using F150 Lightning pick ups? Perhaps they are like most in many countries & the UK who barely drive any distance & really should be using other means of transport?

they changed the idea of "charging" and turned it on its head.
free charging is everywhere, but when I say free I mean like maccies, stores, malls, car parks, all to get the masses of EV users to spend their cash with them. (sure the burger may cost 10p more etc they arent stupid)

Just like it will here, for instance when i stopped at the new retail development in newton abbot the car park lighting bollards almost all had ev points in them, so when you have an ev, are you going to the old place or the new place where your motor gets a top up whilst there...granted only a small burst 5-7kw, then your next stop maccies, another blast, then whatever car park in the cities giving free posts, another blast.

All geared up for the future, not looking backwards. "How can we" instead of "no it cant""perhaps", "maybes" "doubtfuls"

 

[The Wino]

Perhaps they are not using F150 Lightning pick ups? Perhaps they are like most in many countries & the UK who barely drive any distance & really should be using other means of transport?

A lot of the first generation of EVs were very poorly though out. Heavy vehicles not originally designed as EVs so bloated heavy poor range very expensive etc etc. I think a lot of buyers only bought them because of tax incentives. I bought one because I'd like to pollute less and quite like the idea of the equivalent of 300 MPG!

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[Tombola]

I bought one because I'd like to pollute less and quite like the idea of the equivalent of 300 MPG!

And me the same, (but skeptical) then realised actually how good they are, Im on my 4th and had far fewer problems than ever I did with ICE.

Sure they arent for everyone? but for me, and the vast majority, they are simply better.

 

[nicholsong]

If EVs are terrible in winter how do they manage in Norway where they have just reached the point of the majority of vehicles on the road are EVs and over 70% of new registrations are EVs?

Sorry my figures we're wrong it's not 70%evs!

In August, all-electric vehicles made up a record 94.3% of new car registrations in Norway, boosted by sales of the Tesla Model Y

Most Norwegian cities and towns are quite small so even if one commutes in by car the distances are small - not like Dorking to Kensington, or Wilmslow to Manchester.

 

[Tombola]

Most Norwegian cities and towns are quite small so even if one commutes in by car the distances are small - not like Dorking to Kensington, or Wilmslow to Manchester.

Maybe part but the real reasons are
Good tax breaks
Excellent charging
Free ev parking
Free use of bus lanes
No vat
Heavily taxed ice cars
Emissions aren't so much of a political tool over there due to the political make up.
Oh and AHA pushed evs back in the day..
Ironically the tax breaks on evs are subsidised in part by the profits on gas and oil

 

[enark]

Sure its a great concept if you want to visit cities and motorway services?

Think you would struggle on the NC 500 for example?

Or WAW?

Or other remote areas.

 

[Tighchris]

OK, it is not a Ducato size but I have just completed my first year and 12000 miles with the electric camper van. Been to Germany four times and Brittany as well as club rallies in Yorkshire and Norfolk from Hertford. Also use it to have days out with onboard catering and chance for a comfortable nap. Use it as my daily driver as well. Never really had a problem charging and after short while I got used to driving to maximise range and minimise range anxiety. In the summer I manage 170 miles per charge and in winter about 130. Charging from 10 to 80% takes only 20 minutes. I can also charge overnight at the campsite using the pitch supply (after asking of course). This would be about equal to the use I would make of the site electric for habitation purposes. I can show the amount used to the site owner. The 340W solar panel and large Lithium bank between the front seats means that the habitation electric hardly ever comes from the site. Almost perfect although Stellantis do have perhaps the worst app of any vehicle manufacturer so the "nice to have" pre-heating hardly ever works. Oh, and the tyre wear is noticeably more than on previous vans. No comformatic, no gas, no DPF, no belt changes, no oil changes, no noisy engine. Instead almost silent running, fast pull out from junctions, quick heating from the heat pump on winter mornings and a much more relaxed time travelling around. It really will not suit everyone and I am not trying to persuade people but it suits me and if they can scale this up for larger vans I think it is the future.

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[dunnah01]

Will there still be any 12v stuff or will it be domestic 240v stuff

 

[AndyRolfe]

A Dutch couple have self converted an early eDucato and recorded their adventures here.

Green Travel Journal

www.greentraveljournal.com

 

[Guigsy]

I don't think we're there yet. Real world range on this at highway speeds is probably only 200 miles. Add in the weight of all the hab equipment and lose some more range because you've added aerodynamic warts like aerials, skylights, vents and windows, and it's probably nearer 150 miles. Then you don't want to use the last 10%, or charge to maximum every time... it's just not practical. I think we need about 150kWh of battery for motorhome use.

Based on the Mercedes sprinter, to get the equivalent payload of a 3.5t diesel van, it ends up weighing nearer 4.25t. So you'll probably be limited to the equivalent of a 6m PVC motorhome with only a midling payload (Lenny HB need not apply ).

I assume the battery is all under the floor. So your fresh and grey tanks will have to eat up storage space. Which isn't great when it's only a 6m van. Although they might be able to get creative.

And the other issue is the cost. Mercedes e-Sprinters are about £30k more than their diesel equivalents.

So I think we're probably another generation away from reasonable electric panel van conversion motorhomes. And probably another generation before they have enough battery to cope with the aerodynamic chaos that are coachbuilds.

 

[Guigsy]

A Dutch couple have self converted an early eDucato and recorded their adventures here.

Green Travel Journal

www.greentraveljournal.com

They've got the previous generation eDucato. They tried to stay within 3.5t... they have seriously struggled. It looks pretty bare. And I'm not sure if they have a bathroom? It also sounds like the range is a serious constraint. This latest one will be better, but it's still going to be very limiting, whilst also being very expensive.

I am keen to see electric motorhomes. But as I said above, I don't think we're there yet.

 

[Bustup15]

I watched the Roaming Radfords using a VW camper electric to do the NC500 in winter. Interesting watch, but charging at least once a day, to ensure range, isn't for me - yet. Bear in mind that's out of season with few other travellers requiring the charge point, and it wasnt cheap.

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[Johnen]

It's to be hoped that the Fiat design team have addressed some of the issues that have been the bane of the existing range, liquorice earth straps, screen to bodywork bonding that actually keeps the water out instead of funnelling it into vital on board components. Feel free to add to the list.

Also hope they actually manage to get paint to stick to it!!

 

[Widge]

I don't think we're there yet. Real world range on this at highway speeds is probably only 200 miles. Add in the weight of all the hab equipment and lose some more range because you've added aerodynamic warts like aerials, skylights, vents and windows, and it's probably nearer 150 miles. Then you don't want to use the last 10%, or charge to maximum every time... it's just not practical. I think we need about 150kWh of battery for motorhome use.

Based on the Mercedes sprinter, to get the equivalent payload of a 3.5t diesel van, it ends up weighing nearer 4.25t. So you'll probably be limited to the equivalent of a 6m PVC motorhome with only a midling payload (Lenny HB need not apply ).

I assume the battery is all under the floor. So your fresh and grey tanks will have to eat up storage space. Which isn't great when it's only a 6m van. Although they might be able to get creative.

And the other issue is the cost. Mercedes e-Sprinters are about £30k more than their diesel equivalents.

So I think we're probably another generation away from reasonable electric panel van conversion motorhomes. And probably another generation before they have enough battery to cope with the aerodynamic chaos that are coachbuilds.

A serious question, are all the figures you have quoted for range, and reduced range depending on what you have bolted on, based on your perception of what you beleve, or based on any science or articles that have been written.
I am not saying you are wrong, but interested to know how you arrived at these figures.

 

[ManTheVan]

the new retail development in newton abbot

Which one is that? Aldi?

 

[Gaston aires]

An Electric MH would not appeal much to thhose of us that like wildcamping.

If 90% of the MH became EV would the campsites want to fit charging installations and provide enough pitches with them to accommodate them all? And at what cost to the user?

Hopefully our diesel Arto will last me out.

My thoughts entirely.
Phil

 

[Tombola]

Which one is that? Aldi?

Was a few years ago now, the one past the waterside park at goodrington, with the range , iceland and a few other places.
I'm getting newton abbot mixed up with Paignton

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[PaulW2]

Interesting discussion. Payload constraints in a 3.5 t van have been mentioned a few times. But aren’t we about to move to 4.25 t across the continent and won’t that go a long way towards solving payload issues?

 

[Googlebot]

Wife has just moved to an electric car.

I won’t be going back to internal combustion if I can help it. There are limitations, range is about the only one though.

In every other aspect, it’s a much better vehicle. Instant heating, immediate power and sustained torque, quieter, cheaper to buy than a petrol equivalent and best of all, it’s £3.50 for a full charge at home.

 

[Guigsy]

A serious question, are all the figures you have quoted for range, and reduced range depending on what you have bolted on, based on your perception of what you beleve, or based on any science or articles that have been written.
I am not saying you are wrong, but interested to know how you arrived at these figures.

EVs are very efficient. They need to be because they don't have a lot of energy storage compared to a tank of dino squeezings. But that also means they're very sensitive to aerodynamic drag.

I know that an ICE car with a roof racks will lose 5-15% mpg. And EVs are roughly twice as energy efficient. But that means the energy they do lose is roughly twice as dependent on drag. So I'm guessing that the impact of all the extras on the outside of a motorhome might be pretty big. Counter argument is that vans are aerodynamic bricks, so there's not much good airflow to be disrupted.

 

[gus-lopez]

A lot of the first generation of EVs were very poorly though out. Heavy vehicles not originally designed as EVs so bloated heavy poor range very expensive etc etc. I think a lot of buyers only bought them because of tax incentives. I bought one because I'd like to pollute less and quite like the idea of the equivalent of 300 MPG!

But the link I posted with the new educato ststs shows they are not much better with payoad using the longer range battery & if you go for the smaller battery then you need perpetual charging. add in they cannot tow which probably rules out at least 50% of all customers here.

Good tax breaks
Excellent charging
Free ev parking
Free use of bus lanes
No vat
Heavily taxed ice cars

Apart from no;2 the rest are "inducements" rope-a-dope,to scam people in to buying them.Similar as unearned income.

Interesting discussion. Payload constraints in a 3.5 t van have been mentioned a few times. But aren’t we about to move to 4.25 t across the continent and won’t that go a long way towards solving payload issues?

read the link in post #31 the "larger" ;that means normal , battery takes up 440kgs of the additional 750kgs..

It is a bit like here in spain where they build refrigerated vehicles on 3500kgs chassis , because no one has a C licence for over 3,5T, & you end up with a usable payload of 200kgs & so everyone runs overloaded

 

[eddie]

Yes, I imagine the converters will be looking closely at the weight.

They’ve not bothered for years

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