Elddis 255 lithium upgrade
- Thread starter Beekeeper
- Start date
Ah, PS276 is single output PS306 (in mine) is dual output.
Surely that's one to the cab battery and one to the leisure battery (6A & 20A).
The BCA information states the yellow/black two pin output is the three step charger output of 6A to charge leisure battery. The red/black wired two pin output supplies the 12v system directly when on EHU. No mention of vehicle battery which is therefore charged via a split charge unit which Shortap mentioned in previous pos.t
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No, see Beekeeper's explanation above, although my van has a B2B charger for the leisure side.. The solar charger does have two battery outputs though.
Two on Tour
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- Sep 16, 2016
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- Elddis Autoquest 175
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Theory or a fact?
Remember it's how Elddis integrate the BCA PDU into their electrical system that determines what the BCA PSU outputs to.
I know for definite as others have found that Elddis MH's of the era of mine do not have the cab battery charged via the BCA PDU when on hookup.
This may have changed in later models, but a multi-meter will determine if that is the case. As for the charger powering the 12v van system, maybe, my simple question is it needed as the leisure battery does a good job of that when not on EHU.
I did not buy an off the shelf lithium battery for our van, I built my own LifePo4 battery pack and our Victron gear is monitored and displays via a Ras Pi computer on our van. I also install a secondary water tank which is heated via our excess solar or our B2B if we are driving to save gas.
Help and information was asked for which I offered up, but if your not happy with what I'm saying, then please ignore it, but what I do not want to be doing is arguing the toss.
I have a schematic wiring diagram of the BCA PDU which I got from BCA technical when I was diagnosing a problem we had and I'm more than happy to PM this to you if it will help you.
Would like the schematic you have. You are quite right about the BCA units output ., but it is what Elddis do with it afterwards. When I disconnect the charger output, black/yellow, I still get a rise in the voltage across vehicle battery. I would like a proper wiring diagram of the Elddis system , not the pathetic one in the owners handbook.
Sorry, thought you were talking about the controller output side. On the solar panel side, no need for a fuse at all, there are no circumstances in which a solar panel could blow a fuse that is big enough to carry its normal output. But may be useful as a handy means of isolating the panels when working on the battery, for example.
Two on Tour
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Beekeeper you have a PM.
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It's an 'offline' charger. The motorhome loads are supplied by the 20A PSU, and the leisure battery is charged by a 6A 3-stage intelligent charger. There should be some automatic switching that disconnects the leisure battery from the motorhome loads when the EHU is plugged in, and reconnects it when it is unplugged.
But I wouldn't be surprised if the person wiring it up has got it wrong, and wired it like the single-output version of the charger. The wiring diagrams for the two chargers will be different, does it mention the PS306 unit specifically, or just the PS276?
I know we've a Bailey Autograph, so might be wired differently, but winter battery maintenance is :- isolate cab battery (via ignition switch), shut down PDU, the once a month de isolate cab battery (via ignition switch), PDU in OFF position, connect EHU for 24 hours. This charges both batteries - twin output BCA PS306.
Could I have a copy of the wiring diagram, please.
I know it might be different to the version used in Bailey MH's but it will give me an idea as how the cables connect to the circuit board.
Who makes the wiring harness ?
I know BCA make some harness's, but whether it's a BCA or an Eldiss is the question.
Two on Tour
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Thank you very much, this will be a great help.
OK if the PS306 is a psu & hab battery charger, can I just disconnect the 6A output and add a battery charger - connected directly to the hab battery ?
Thinking of using a Victron BluePower Charger 5A.
A more cost effective solution than the Apuljack replacement @ £250.
Thinking of using a Victron BluePower Charger 5A.
A more cost effective solution than the Apuljack replacement @ £250.
Last edited:
- Jul 11, 2021
- 28
- 13
- Funster No
- 82,581
- MH
- Majestic 255
- Exp
- Have had campers on and off since 1979. Upgraded to a coach built motorhome in 2018.
Hi, I'm just catching up on this thread from last week. I've been trawling through the cable routes and what I've noticed is that Elddis (mines the Marquis Majestic version to the 255) loom seems to be a basic one for certain models with "add-on" harnesses that stretch out the wiring to accommodate the longer vehicles and (most probably) to cover additional features. I found a label on a connector in the cavity in the drivers B Pillar, where the base vehicle would have a fuse box for the rear compartment; this read "Explorer Majestic Encore 255", hence my assumption about the add-ons (Explorer seems to be division of Ernest Hymer/Elddis). Plus I have battery leads from the PDU which are extended by 2 sections that have M/F connectors (the 255 is 7.4M) and a couple of other branches that go nowhere.
The 301/306 is, as has been described, a 6 stage charger to the leisure batteries and a 12V transformer that runs the DC system when on EHU. What I thought might have been a VSR, the Telco V23130-C2021, isn't and more likely is for tow-bar electrics as Beekeeper said earlier. In which case I've no idea where a split charge occurs; what I do know is, when the engine is running the habitation systems are switched off but the fridge is powered and the leisure battery is charged. When the engine is turned off the control panel has to be manually turned on but the fridge (for example) automatically switches to gas and a 12V ignition. I buzzed thro' a 10mm cable from the starter battery bus to a connector in the B pillar, all the others I believe run to vehicle system/engine but with no cct diagram I can't confirm it. I've not been able to find any connection at the PDU end. All neutrals and earths do buzz thro' so I'm happy about the continuity there.
My apologies for being a burden Two on tour but a copy of the cct diagram would be much appreciated. I've written to Ernest Hymer, again, for some clarification and or a diagram but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime the 301/306 -L Ultra is going in and I've a Victron Orion 12-12-30 to go in for the DC-DC. There are a pair of cables from within the PDU that were crush-crimped to the leisure battery leads (a real mess) which are now in a terminal bus box and I'll disconnect those and replace with the Orion cables and see what happens! Or perhaps not. All very interesting....
Two on Tour
LIFE MEMBER
- Sep 16, 2016
- 11,219
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Yes absolutely
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- Jul 11, 2021
- 28
- 13
- Funster No
- 82,581
- MH
- Majestic 255
- Exp
- Have had campers on and off since 1979. Upgraded to a coach built motorhome in 2018.
I was going back over correspondence with Apuljack and realised that I may have missed an important comment relevant to this discussion (ref the underlined);
"the AE276-L is a single output unit, so it will charge the leisure battery, however in many vehicles this output runs through a distribution board which switches the charge to the starter battery as required."
I will follow this up with both Erwin Hymer and Apuljack and if this also allows the engine to charge the leisure battery when in transit (other vehicle models are available
). I have some more testing to do now I have Two on Tours Cct Diagram (many thanks) and will investigate this further.
NB this was an early exchange when I thought my charger was the 276 and their premise is that you run 12v from the battery and the charger replaces that output from the EHU, but I would assume the 301/306 charger is the same (just no 12v transformer).
Of course I could just be a complete numpty .....
"the AE276-L is a single output unit, so it will charge the leisure battery, however in many vehicles this output runs through a distribution board which switches the charge to the starter battery as required."
I will follow this up with both Erwin Hymer and Apuljack and if this also allows the engine to charge the leisure battery when in transit (other vehicle models are available
). I have some more testing to do now I have Two on Tours Cct Diagram (many thanks) and will investigate this further.NB this was an early exchange when I thought my charger was the 276 and their premise is that you run 12v from the battery and the charger replaces that output from the EHU, but I would assume the 301/306 charger is the same (just no 12v transformer).
Of course I could just be a complete numpty .....
Shortap, the split charge I have is in battery box and is for tow bar electrics along with the dedicated trailer module. I also have drivers b pillar exposed and like you cannot find what Two on tour suggested may be there. Just a bird nest of wires , some with in line fuses , plus audio filter . A mess really. So I figure I should just disconnect the 6amp output at PSU so I remove the lead acid profile charging and rely on the lithium profiles only from the mppt, b2b , and mains chargers , all victron., plus the Ablemail trickle charger with lithium profile. As you say, see what happens!
So I took the plunge today. Connected b2b to power and downloaded update, and set to lithiumFinally connected lithium , which has been mounted for a while but system still connected to external AGM. All ok so far. Connected output wires to b2b and installed the jumper.plugged in ehu cable. Nothing! It helps if you plug in ehu at other end. When I did, switched on charger, 30 amps charge and set to lithium. I had disconnected the charger out put from pdu. Removed EHU and started engine. B2b came on at 20 plus . Cannot test solar yet as motorhome is kept in garage. Need to drive it out on a sunny dry day and take it for a run. All ok so far. Battery is a really good fit in box.
I think there's a misunderstanding here. How I read that info from Apuljack is that some motorhomes have a switch on the distribution panel that sends the EHU charging power to either the leisure battery or the starter battery, the user can choose.I was going back over correspondence with Apuljack and realised that I may have missed an important comment relevant to this discussion (ref the underlined);
"the AE276-L is a single output unit, so it will charge the leisure battery, however in many vehicles this output runs through a distribution board which switches the charge to the starter battery as required."
I will follow this up with both Erwin Hymer and Apuljack and if this also allows the engine to charge the leisure battery when in transit (other vehicle models are available
Sometimes the same switch allows the habitation 12V loads to be switched between the leisure and starter battery, for 'emergency' use. Not something I'm very keen on but I think some like the idea, especially ex-caravan owners I think.
I think you have in mind the 'split charge relay', which is usually built into the distribution board, and connects the leisure battery to the alternator/starter battery automatically when the engine is running, so that the alternator can charge both batteries. The split charge relay is switched on by a 'D+' (engine running) signal from the alternator.
The D+ signal also switches two other relays, the fridge 12V is turned on and the habitation loads are turned off when the engine starts.
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- Jul 11, 2021
- 28
- 13
- Funster No
- 82,581
- MH
- Majestic 255
- Exp
- Have had campers on and off since 1979. Upgraded to a coach built motorhome in 2018.
Thanks autorouter. I can't vouch for those that may have a manual switch as I don't have one, plus the cct diagram I received shows relay controls, therefore it is an automatic switch over and indeed that is how the system has been operating from new. In installing my upgrade I was keen to keep as much of the original functionality as possible. I now believe that the Tyco relay unit on the starter battery -ve Bus provides that switching control. That said your comment is useful in providing a broader understanding of the system configurations out there.
BCA Seattle control panel allows this - membrane switch and option on graphic display.
The Tyco unit on the neg bus is on all the vehicles. It is an inertia switch that trips in the event of an accident. As I said I cannot find the unit Two on tour mentions, but as I have two outputs i have unplugged the charger side which is lead acid dedicated and rely on the Victron unit. There is however a small voltage increase across the vehicle battery when ehu is connected. Do not know how much a dealer would know about the circuitry. Not a lot i would think. When i had a Burstner the dealer did not know the PIN to reprogram the system when adding the correct solar regulator. Out into garage now . I need to design something to stop items falling against electrics and restricting airflow.
So went into motorhome switched on master, nothing came on . Panel said master on, lights on , but they weren't. Heard relay switch in PDU. Plugged in EHU and it all worked. Unplugged EHU , lights went out. Awning light worked ok. I noticed radio stayed on when ignition switched off. So I plugged the yellow/white wires from battery charger back together and system works again . Obviously something to do with d+ signal, but why should the charger output effect this. Maybe I should try disconnecting just one of the charger output wires. Any suggestions folks! I tried inverter to power a hair dryer and that works as it should pulling 129 amps.
- Jul 11, 2021
- 28
- 13
- Funster No
- 82,581
- MH
- Majestic 255
- Exp
- Have had campers on and off since 1979. Upgraded to a coach built motorhome in 2018.
I'm trying sort this out myself so this may be of use; Erwin Hymer sent me the attached diagram and explanation.
What they describe is exactly what I've found is in place. I've some more testing to do and will share what I find. I will be looking for the relay that controls the master switch because this is of concern to me if I run new cable to the Orion TR DC-DC and disconnect the Grn+Wh/Brn which would beak the link for the control panel/engine override. I think I need to get the Orion "engine detection override" function back into this loop and I don't yet know if/how it would conflict with the original relay set-up.
I hope I'm not missing anything from previous posts that would be relevant but I'm also writing to BCA to get some advice on this. I'll let you know how it goes.
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