EES and UK Residents in Schengen countries.

[nicholsong]

I have read several official descriptions of the effect of the EES which will be implemented on 6th October 2024.

They all state that EU Citizens are exempt, but I cannot find any reference to non-EU passport holders who are officially resident in a Schengen state.

If such a Resident visits a third party country then on re-entering Schengen are they subject to EES rules?

Has anyone seen any official pronouncement on this?

 

[Speve]

Hope you don’t mind me asking but what is EES?

 

[nicholsong]

Hope you don’t mind me asking but what is EES?

Entry/Exit System for Schengen.

 

[mapman]

EES is the new entry and exit system for non EU nationals entering Schengen. It will involve a photo and fingerprints on entering EU for first time. Latest deta say comes in to force October 6 2024. Works in conjunction with ETIAS.

 

[gus-lopez]

I posted this on another thread

EES and UK Residents in Schengen countries.

I have read several official descriptions of the effect of the EES which will be implemented on 6th October 2024. They all state that EU Citizens are exempt, but I cannot find any reference to non-EU passport holders who are officially resident in a Schengen state. If such a Resident visits a...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

& I posted the answer to that yesterday specifically to you Geoff & that thread appears to have disappeared .What is the point of posting useful factual information when the thread can be deleted? Waste of time & in future I will not bother.

Here for the last time is the links..

ETiAS ;
ETIAS exemptions for UK nationals who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement

UK nationals and their family members who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement

are exempt from ETIAS: they may reside on the territory of their EU host country and travel to other European countries requiring ETIAS as long as they hold documents proving their status.

from here;

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en


EES;

Non-EU citizens who are legally resident or have long-stay visas to live in an EU Member State will be exempt from EES.

from here;
Broken Link Removed

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[nicholsong]

Richard, thank you.

I had read that document before and either I had missed the EES exemption for EU Residents or it has been added recently.

We still do not know whether there will be a separate lane at Dover for vehicles with only exempt travellers.

Geoff

 

[mapman]

What will the EU’s new entry-exit system mean for British travellers?

Under the entry-exit system every British traveller to the Schengen Area should be fingerprinted and provide a facial biometric – though at first this rule may be fudged

www.independent.co.uk

Regarding procedures at Dover. The article 5 days ago by Simon Calder includes some interesting quotes from manager at Dover.

 

[gus-lopez]

What will the EU’s new entry-exit system mean for British travellers?

Under the entry-exit system every British traveller to the Schengen Area should be fingerprinted and provide a facial biometric – though at first this rule may be fudged

www.independent.co.uk

Regarding procedures at Dover. The article 5 days ago by Simon Calder includes some interesting quotes from manager at Dover.

Dover has always worked on a JIT system. The slightest problem & it becomes a shambles. Now We do not have the poor old dog ,rest his soul, I might well look at Dieppe - Newhaven next years as it is then only a few minutes to the daughters

 

[Roby2008]

The last time we came back through Dover (June 23), I handed my DE residency card over with my UK Passport, the guy said ´OK you are German´ and off we went with a wave........technically, for the purposes of entering and leaving the EU, I am German and an EU citizen, I will live with that until told otherwise.......

If it becomes a pain then in another year I can apply for a German passport without meeting the language requirement and solve the problem entirely, but that's another story....

 

[hja]

Read an interesting article yesterday from The Times, posted on another forum, from a reporter who had been “behind the scenes” at Dover, who now say they will be ready and each journey will only take 5 - 7 minutes longer. Not sure how they work that out, because I would have thought all those extra minutes were likely to be accumulative to some extent. Apparently it will be a multi stage process; book tickets online and register that you are not an EU citizen, turn up at port, book in, go somewhere else and get out of vehicle and use EES machines for scanning, return to vehicle, drive to passport control, and then through to boarding. Think that is the correct order.

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[mapman]

go somewhere else and get out of vehicle and use EES machines for scanning

I suspect this is where the “system” will crash at busy times. locating a safe place at Dover to allow families and coach parties to leave the vehicle is a major hurdle. I’m glad we use Hull where there is plenty of space and time given only the one ferry per day.

 

[gus-lopez]

I handed my DE residency card over with my UK Passport,

Yes same here with our spanish TIE's. soon as they saw them passport wasn't even opened& whole lot handed back

to allow families and coach parties to leave the vehicle is a major hurdle.

Exactly the problem.One night around 10,30pm when checking in & I refused the 12midnight boat to Calais & wanted the 2am to Dunkirk they told me I had to leave the port as there was "nowhere to park whilst waiting"

 

[jumartoo]

Any of us with residency cards (TIE in Spain) have already given our finger prints so there's no need for us to do them again.

 

[nicholsong]

The last time we came back through Dover (June 23), I handed my DE residency card over with my UK Passport, the guy said ´OK you are German´ and off we went with a wave........technically, for the purposes of entering and leaving the EU, I am German and an EU citizen, I will live with that until told otherwise.......

If it becomes a pain then in another year I can apply for a German passport without meeting the language requirement and solve the problem entirely, but that's another story....

That is interesting. What are the qualifying years? Are they based on actual years in living Germany on the basis of EU Citizenship or only the years of having an German Residency Card?

I live in Poland but the information may be useful.

 

[nicholsong]

Any of us with residency cards (TIE in Spain) have already given our finger prints so there's no need for us to do them again.

Judith

For TIE did you have all fingers printed? I am sure that for my Polish Residency Card I only had index finger of each hand printed so maybe that does not qualify for EES, but would anyone pick up the difference?

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[jumartoo]

Judith

For TIE did you have all fingers printed? I am sure that for my Polish Residency Card I only had index finger of each hand printed so maybe that does not qualify for EES, but would anyone pick up the difference?

Not all fingers, no. Just forefinger on each hand.

 

[Raul]

That is interesting. What are the qualifying years? Are they based on actual years in living Germany on the basis of EU Citizenship or only the years of having an German Residency Card?

I live in Poland but the information may be useful.

My wife had the pre brexit 5 year paper residence permit, then switched to photo card in 2021 ish, the next one She will be allowed to apply for citizenship as a spouse, without test, in Ro. We can prove self sustainable funds and own our house. She is registered with local authority as well that confirms she has a domicile. I think there are similarities throughout EU states.

 

[Roby2008]

That is interesting. What are the qualifying years? Are they based on actual years in living Germany on the basis of EU Citizenship or only the years of having an German Residency Card?

I live in Poland but the information may be useful.

There is a law change going through that will allow dual citizenship, Part of this will be an exemption from the B1 language requirement if you are over 67, hopefully all the states will comply and I will apply, will have to wait a year though as Not old enough.

Residency was easy for me, married to a German for 15 years, living here for 14 and have over the 5 year minimum paying in for a pension.
I was also here pre-Brexit so it was much easier than it would be now.

 

[Widge]

The last time we came back through Dover (June 23), I handed my DE residency card over with my UK Passport, the guy said ´OK you are German´ and off we went with a wave........technically, for the purposes of entering and leaving the EU, I am German and an EU citizen, I will live with that until told otherwise.......

If it becomes a pain then in another year I can apply for a German passport without meeting the language requirement and solve the problem entirely, but that's another story....

You didn't have to do the language test in france over 60, to apply for french nationality, but now that has now changed unless you have a medical reason everyone of any age has to do the language test.

 

[gus-lopez]

here in spain citizenship has actually got harder. You have to be fluent, able to conduct a q&A session with interviewer, know spanish history inside out, & basically what Ferdinand & Isabella did on a daily basis.This is in addition to having lived here legally for a minimum of 10 years.

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[Widge]

There is a law change going through that will allow dual citizenship, Part of this will be an exemption from the B1 language requirement if you are over 67, hopefully all the states will comply and I will apply, will have to wait a year though as Not old enough.

Residency was easy for me, married to a German for 15 years, living here for 14 and have over the 5 year minimum paying in for a pension.
I was also here pre-Brexit so it was much easier than it would be now.

You also need a b1 for france, up until 2020 you didn't need it if you were over 60 and been a resident for at least 5 years, but it is a requirement for practically all now, a medical excemption or I read recently if you were over 70 and been a resident for at least 25 years.

 

[cyberyacht]

Just imagine if we had such stringent rules for UK residency.

 

[Widge]

Just imagine if we had such stringent rules for UK residency.

The above was for gaining nationality, not residency. The uk nationality test is also quite strict, apparently somebody did a test by giving it to several well known people, the only one who passed first time was Hening Wehn.

 

[cyberyacht]

That figures. We have a bunch of comedians in Westminster.

 

[DDJC]

Resurrecting this thread, because I don't think it is as widely known as it needs to be. This WILL cause disruption to everyone travelling to the EU via Dover or the tunnel.

In a professional capacity, I am being kept right up to date with the new EES. I can't go into details of why, as my employer can be rather unforgiving about people talking out of turn.

However, what is in the public domain (if you look for it) is the following:

• EES affects anyone entering the EU from a country that is not in Schengen. This includes EU members Ireland, Cyprus and non EU countries such as UK. UK to EU travel is by far the most affected by EES.
• The EU tested two new plans. EES and RTP (for frequent border travellers). The results are here, but broadly, both tests were deemed successful and will be implemented.
• The EU claims that it will save time, as passports will no longer need to be stamped. However this is replaced by a new ID checking system, that the UK believes will take much longer.
• Estimates are that delays at the Port or Tunnel will be as much as three times as long as they are now.
• The start date is in October this year, but the actual date is movable depending on the EU assessing its ability to deliver the process effectively.
• The start date will not depend on whether the UK has appropriate management in place.
• The registration process needs to be done every three years. This involves facial and fingerprint biometric testing, combined with passports.
• Once registered, you still need to prove your identity through your fingerprint (on a touch screen) and facial recognition.
• Although the technology exists, the idea of passing an ID tablet round a car hasn't been suggested to the EU. This may change.
• The technology for automated online registration on the internet prior to travelling exists and is planned for implementation, but probably after the start date.
• The Channel Tunnel is already putting in measures to create more identity processing space. However, it will be still be up to the French Border Police to do the checks and if only three out of eight booths are open, that is that.
• Dover has no room on its site to add in additional capacity. Delays out of Dover are expected to be immense.
• Planning & modelling has identified that unlike 31 January 2020 where freight was the main victim, this time, as it is a people identification system, tourists will be held up. You do not want to be stuck behind a coach trip!
• The time difference between registered and non-registered travelling will be more than a couple of minutes. It has been suggested that separate lanes need to be used for registered and non registered travellers. The EU may go for this or not.
• If the IT goes down (which of course it will), the French Police have a provision to wave people through without testing. However, coming back into the UK could be problematic. Work still being done on this.
• There will be an easier system, travelling back to the UK, partially because the UK will not (currently) reciprocate with enforcing biometric testing on our borders. Likely be barcode reading passports as it is now.
• Operation Brock will be in place, probably permanently on the M20. As will the Dover TAP. However, Brock is geared to freight, not tourist traffic.
• EES is a forerunner to the new ETIAS system that is due next year. On balance, it looks like ETIAS and EES will complement each other. This means that everyone will have to apply in advance for a permission to travel to the EU, via ETIAS, AND then confirm their identity by the EES method when they travel.

The EES website is here.

And just for the avoidance of doubt, this would still affect UK travellers if we hadn't left the EU in 2020, because we are not in Schengen. Unless the EU changes it's mind, Ireland will be similarly affected as us, and I imagine they are pretty narked about this.

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[The Wino]

Resurrecting this thread, because I don't think it is as widely known as it needs to be. This WILL cause disruption to everyone travelling to the EU via Dover or the tunnel.

In a professional capacity, I am being kept right up to date with the new EES. I can't go into details of why, as my employer can be rather unforgiving about people talking out of turn.

However, what is in the public domain (if you look for it) is the following:

• EES affects anyone entering the EU from a country that is not in Schengen. This includes EU members Ireland, Cyprus and non EU countries such as UK. UK to EU travel is by far the most affected by EES.
• The EU tested two new plans. EES and RTP (for frequent border travellers). The results are here, but broadly, both tests were deemed successful and will be implemented.
• The EU claims that it will save time, as passports will no longer need to be stamped. However this is replaced by a new ID checking system, that the UK believes will take much longer.
• Estimates are that delays at the Port or Tunnel will be as much as three times as long as they are now.
• The start date is in October this year, but the actual date is movable depending on the EU assessing its ability to deliver the process effectively.
• The start date will not depend on whether the UK has appropriate management in place.
• The registration process needs to be done every three years. This involves facial and fingerprint biometric testing, combined with passports.
• Once registered, you still need to prove your identity through your fingerprint (on a touch screen) and facial recognition.
• Although the technology exists, the idea of passing an ID tablet round a car hasn't been suggested to the EU. This may change.
• The technology for automated online registration on the internet prior to travelling exists and is planned for implementation, but probably after the start date.
• The Channel Tunnel is already putting in measures to create more identity processing space. However, it will be still be up to the French Border Police to do the checks and if only three out of eight booths are open, that is that.
• Dover has no room on its site to add in additional capacity. Delays out of Dover are expected to be immense.
• Planning & modelling has identified that unlike 31 January 2020 where freight was the main victim, this time, as it is a people identification system, tourists will be held up. You do not want to be stuck behind a coach trip!
• The time difference between registered and non-registered travelling will be more than a couple of minutes. It has been suggested that separate lanes need to be used for registered and non registered travellers. The EU may go for this or not.
• If the IT goes down (which of course it will), the French Police have a provision to wave people through without testing. However, coming back into the UK could be problematic. Work still being done on this.
• There will be an easier system, travelling back to the UK, partially because the UK will not (currently) reciprocate with enforcing biometric testing on our borders. Likely be barcode reading passports as it is now.
• Operation Brock will be in place, probably permanently on the M20. As will the Dover TAP. However, Brock is geared to freight, not tourist traffic.
• EES is a forerunner to the new ETIAS system that is due next year. On balance, it looks like ETIAS and EES will complement each other. This means that everyone will have to apply in advance for a permission to travel to the EU, via ETIAS, AND then confirm their identity by the EES method when they travel.

The EES website is here.

And just for the avoidance of doubt, this would still affect UK travellers if we hadn't left the EU in 2020, because we are not in Schengen. Unless the EU changes it's mind, Ireland will be similarly affected as us, and I imagine they are pretty narked about this.

To me it makes perfect sense to use better ways of identifying people and we should adopt the same system here and negociate to see if the systems can be integrated. I think it's time we had biometric id cards in the UK that would work well as part of the same system. Given the ease of travel within Schengen it makes sense to identify people entering as accurately as possible I suspect that countries within Schengen will also move to biometric id cards if they haven't already.

 

[hja]

We mainly hear about entry to France, but obviously similar checks will be necessary going into the Netherlands and Spain. Are those checks being done on the boats like the old passport checks used to be, many many years ago?

 

[DDJC]

To me it makes perfect sense to use better ways of identifying people and we should adopt the same system here and negociate to see if the systems can be integrated. I think it's time we had biometric id cards in the UK that would work well as part of the same system. Given the ease of travel within Schengen it makes sense to identify people entering as accurately as possible I suspect that countries within Schengen will also move to biometric id cards if they haven't already.

Not going to disagree. I would also like to see biometric ID cards, and can see a lot of common sense in knowing which people were entering a country. Wish we did.
I am simply pointing out that we can expect some pretty serious disruption. At least until some common sense automated measures are introduced to speed up the process.

However, I don't want UK to join Schengen.

 

[DDJC]

We mainly hear about entry to France, but obviously similar checks will be necessary going into the Netherlands and Spain. Are those checks being done on the boats like the old passport checks used to be, many many years ago?

No, the above will apply to Newhaven, Portsmouth, North Shields, Hull, Harwich, Poole and Plymouth. Checks will have to be done at the border control on the quayside in UK.
The ferries to Ireland should be unaffected because Ireland isn't in Schengen.

 

[gus-lopez]

• The start date is in October this year, but the actual date is movable depending on the EU assessing its ability to deliver the process effectively.
• The start date will not depend on whether the UK has appropriate management in place.

But is guaranteed not to be brought in before the Paris Olympics finish on 11th August & possibly not before the paralympics ends.
+Just make sure you suggest seperate lanes for those of us unaffected please: