Eddie Vanbitz

[Langtoftlad]

*Ahem*
I believe it is possible to bump start the engine even with the non starter enabled.

Perhaps Eddie eddievanbitz would like to comment ?
I think it's unlikely - but I don't know
I have had the unprompted non start engaging itself.

If a van could be started in this way, could it then be stopped by remotely locking it?

 

[Skez]

I have a Metatrak Non Starter. There have been a couple of issues, all sorted by Metatrak in an efficient and timely manner so I have no problem with them.

Different versions work in different ways. If you understand the app and how it all works there are various strategies available to you if, for example, you know you're not going to have a mobile signal!

But I really don't think an open forum is the right place to discuss the intricacies of how our vehicle security works.

 

[gerry mcg]

I have a Metatrak Non Starter. There have been a couple of issues, all sorted by Metatrak in an efficient and timely manner so I have no problem with them.

Different versions work in different ways. If you understand the app and how it all works there are various strategies available to you if, for example, you know you're not going to have a mobile signal!

But I really don't think an open forum is the right place to discuss the intricacies of how our vehicle security works.

I've asked Jim to remove my messages

 

[Ditcha]

I have a Metatrak Non Starter. There have been a couple of issues, all sorted by Metatrak in an efficient and timely manner so I have no problem with them.

Different versions work in different ways. If you understand the app and how it all works there are various strategies available to you if, for example, you know you're not going to have a mobile signal!

But I really don't think an open forum is the right place to discuss the intricacies of how our vehicle security works.

Why not we here all the positives but not the negatives it's a motorhome forum and people like to hear both sides so they can decide on if it's something they would have

 

[Langtoftlad]

The new App

What new App?
I have the one that was installed originally [2017], might have updated in the background I suppose.
Mine is 2.8.5

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[eddie]

May I just start with the simple suggestion that if anyone has any anomalies with starting their vehicle that they place the Non Starter into service mode which turns it off effectively.

That is not an admission the product is flaky or unreliable just that it is a sophisticated modern piece of equipment that will tell you where it is, immobilise the engine, tell you what the alarm is doing and even tell you where its been.

In the same way that sometimes my phone simply won’t do as it is told and I turn it off and on again and all’s well.

Also, many problems that are attributed to the Non Starter often are nothing to do with the Non Starter (NS) as the topic of this post shows. We believe it “must be the Non Starter” but as in this case it was the engine battery terminal which had been recently incorrectly fitted when Air Horns were fitted recently.

Thousands of these units are sold annually, and there are tens of thousands of these units being used daily, and there will be issues, especially given the numbers, but think about the advantages

We have dozens of cases where the theft of a customers motorhome has been stopped by the Non Starter, Funsters have posted graphic photo’s of the dashboard after a thwarted theft.

The point is that the owners still have a motorhome left to photograph! Yes the dash is worse for wear and the wiring hacked about a bit, but a trip to the chassis manufacturer and with out assistance the security equipment requiring attention, replaced and the owner can carry on enjoying their motorhome, and still enjoy there treasured personal possessions that were in the motorhome, which would have been lost for ever.

This thread would have you believe that there are dozens of problems, where as the reality is that six people have highlighted issues, one of those was inconclusive that there was anything wrong with the Non Starter and these “issues” are going all the way back to 2017 and I am not going to say how many we install but we average three systems a day and a high proportion of our customers have the Non Starter installed, so that is a lot of Non Starters installed in the last five, nearly six years.

zac we are happy to continue to try to help you. Yours situation is strange!

We originally installed our non App system, a SMS Text system made by another Company other than Meta

Meta who with over a 150 patents registered and over 200 employee’s working in the Research and Development alone, and are a Tier One Company https://www.metasystem.it/en/

If you remember you had issues with that original “Non Starter” so after discussion with you, we upgraded the Non Starter, removing the SMS based one and installing the Non Starter MT which is operated by an App.

Your first years subscription was also included free of charge in the upgrade.

As you say you continued to have issues with that system, coming to a head when there was an issue with you in Portugal. To be honest I know that there was a lengthy discussion on MHFun at the time but the why’s and wherefores elude me, other than I know that Meta dispatched an emergency override to you free of charge on your return home.

You continued to have issues and were unhappy with your Non Starter. We discussed it with you and it was agreed that we would upgrade the system again, for the latest equipment, and every single component was changed, including the complete wiring loom.

When the new system was installed, tested and demonstrated you were given a two year subscription package free of charge.

If your still experiencing the same problem that is really strange given that the two systems that were removed have been installed on staff and friends vehicles and have performed faultlessly since

Please do not think I am suggesting that you were making it up, I am categorically not suggesting that, but the reality is that we do test equipment reportedly faulty and they have not faulted to date.

May I make a suggestion? Our latest system is some years newer than the original one we installed and like all things, whether it’s a smart phone, iPad, TV or car things move on and upgrades are added. We can remove your system, install a 2022 system which eliminates the need for a dongle or pebble override as it is linked to the Bluetooth on your phone so irrespective of how good or bad the signal strength is, your phone will always be able to shut your system down. Alternatively if you hate the system(s) so much, even after all these years I will offer you a refund and we will remove the equipment.

Personally I think that the latter suggestion is a bad idea as I know how many potential thefts are stopped due to the alarm paging function and the remote immobilisation function, however the choice is yours should you wish it.

 

[Langtoftlad]

...and bump starting eddievanbitz ?

 

[eddie]

...and bump starting eddievanbitz ?

No idea! Will the thieves also have the keys so that the steering lock is off and the fuel pump active?

 

[Skez]

Why not we here all the positives but not the negatives it's a motorhome forum and people like to hear both sides so they can decide on if it's something they would have

Why tell the world, including prospective thieves, how our vehicle security works?? Anyone can read this forum I think - you don't have to be member to read stuff here.

By all means discuss the generics of faults, customer service etc. - Just not the detail of how the system works or if you can by-pass it.

 

[Langtoftlad]

No idea! Will the thieves also have the keys so that the steering lock is off and the fuel pump active?

Don't ask me... I wouldn't have the foggiest.
It was claimed to be possible
Just thought you might have had 'reports'

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[eddie]

Don't ask me... I wouldn't have the foggiest.
It was claimed to be possible
Just thought you might have had 'reports'

Anything is possible, no personal information that is has been done as I can think of easier ways to steal a van

Don't forget my personal best is in and started in under 20 seconds for MMM!

 

[zac]

May I just start with the simple suggestion that if anyone has any anomalies with starting their vehicle that they place the Non Starter into service mode which turns it off effectively.

That is not an admission the product is flaky or unreliable just that it is a sophisticated modern piece of equipment that will tell you where it is, immobilise the engine, tell you what the alarm is doing and even tell you where its been.

In the same way that sometimes my phone simply won’t do as it is told and I turn it off and on again and all’s well.

Also, many problems that are attributed to the Non Starter often are nothing to do with the Non Starter (NS) as the topic of this post shows. We believe it “must be the Non Starter” but as in this case it was the engine battery terminal which had been recently incorrectly fitted when Air Horns were fitted recently.

Thousands of these units are sold annually, and there are tens of thousands of these units being used daily, and there will be issues, especially given the numbers, but think about the advantages

We have dozens of cases where the theft of a customers motorhome has been stopped by the Non Starter, Funsters have posted graphic photo’s of the dashboard after a thwarted theft.

The point is that the owners still have a motorhome left to photograph! Yes the dash is worse for wear and the wiring hacked about a bit, but a trip to the chassis manufacturer and with out assistance the security equipment requiring attention, replaced and the owner can carry on enjoying their motorhome, and still enjoy there treasured personal possessions that we in the motorhome, which would have been lost for ever.

This thread would have you believe that there are dozens of problems, where as the reality is that six people have highlighted issues, one of those was inconclusive that there was anything wrong with the Non Starter and these “issues” are going all the way back to 2017 and I am not going to say how many we install but we average three systems a day and a high proportion of our customers have the Non Starter installed, so that is a lot of Non Starters installed in the last five, nearly six years.

zac we are happy to continue to try to help you. Yours situation is strange!

We originally installed our non App system, a SMS Text system made by another Company other than Meta

Meta who with over a 150 patents registered and over 200 employee’s working in the Research and Development alone, and are a Tier One Company https://www.metasystem.it/en/

If you remember you had issues with that original “Non Starter” so after discussion with you, we upgraded the Non Starter, removing the SMS based one and installing the Non Starter MT which is operated by an App.

Your first years subscription was also included free of charge in the upgrade.

As you say you continued to have issues with that system, coming to a head when there was an issue with you in Portugal. To be honest I know that there was a lengthy discussion on MHFun at the time but the why’s and wherefores elude me, other than I know that Meta dispatched an emergency override to you free of charge on your return home.

You continued to have issues and were unhappy with your Non Starter. We discussed it with you and it was agreed that we would upgrade the system again, for the latest equipment, and every single component was changed, including the complete wiring loom.

When the new system was installed, tested and demonstrated you were given a two year subscription package free of charge.

If your still experiencing the same problem that is really strange given that the two systems that were removed have been installed on staff and friends vehicles and have performed faultlessly since

Please do not think I am suggesting that you were making it up, I am categorically not suggesting that, but the reality is that we do test equipment reportedly faulty and they have not faulted to date.

May I make a suggestion? Our latest system is some years newer than the original one we installed and like all things, whether it’s a smart phone, iPad, TV or car things move on and upgrades are added. We can remove your system, install a 2022 system which eliminates the need for a dongle or pebble override as it is linked to the Bluetooth on your phone so irrespective of how good or bad the signal strength is, your phone will always be able to shut your system down. Alternatively if you hate the system(s) so much, even after all these years I will offer you a refund and we will remove the equipment.

Personally I think that the latter suggestion is a bad idea as I know how many potential thefts are stopped due to the alarm paging function and the remote immobilisation function, however the choice is yours should you wish it.

Hi Eddie

Let me just start by saying your service has been outstanding as always and i will never say a bad word against that even with the trouble that this unit has caused me over the last few years. As mentioned earlier i only ever wanted this unit to be able to arm at home when i think this is most likely when the vehicle will be stolen as its left for a very long time unattended (no one listens to alarms anymore).

The issue i think you are referring too which is the one in Portugal (the most stressful one for me by far) from my point of view was most definitely attributed in some way to the non starter as i have already explained. I don't want to put fixes on here which is why i removed the earlier one but after taking this out of the equation the vehicle started first time and i never had any issues with it for the rest of the holiday.

I have already mentioned that i have received free subscription from Metatrak which is great and from the other post it was already mentioned that the system was exchanged foc when i returned. Again all good service and one that i am sure many can agree with, unfortunately i do not use the Motorhome very much and with recent events even less of course so seeing these issues for me is infrequent due to this so its difficult to see this all the time when i am not using the vehicle like most other people on here would be.

The last call i gave to Metatrak was in March this year which is when i last used the vehicle and once again after driving it for approx 3 hours and stopping for fuel it had nothing on the ignition. Of course the first thing i reached for was the phone to check the system to see if it was showing blocked (it was not). The next thing i went for was the fob which through my fault the battery was flat (although a user on here said there's also did not work but i cannot rule that out unless it happens to me). Then the final thing that i did was to send an unblock command from the app and almost immediately the vehicle then started. In my mind i have no doubt that somehow this unit is arming itself without me knowing and from my conversations with Metatrak i have been the only one which clearly this is not the case. Up until this thread i thought i was the only one with the issue.

Metatraks response was not a good one and i categorically said i dont want a free subscription i just want this to work as its intended but i believe their response was quite rude basically telling me these things happen and it was very rare (its not rare to me).

I also spoke to Vanbitz around this same time as well but i didnt want to go down the road of the systems always arming when i walk away and then unarming when i am near as to me this goes against what i brought it for and relies on certain conditions like having the fobs close all the time with the keys (as they are unlikely to be kept anywhere else). If there is another option will fulfills the need for me to only have this armed when at home please i really want to hear about it and if someone can call me that will be great or i can call whatever is easiest.

For me i dont want a refund as when the unit is at home i am pretty confident no one is going to steal it with this onboard but i dont want it arming when i am using it.

 

[eddie]

Hi Eddie

Let me just start by saying your service has been outstanding as always and i will never say a bad word against that even with the trouble that this unit has caused me over the last few years. As mentioned earlier i only ever wanted this unit to be able to arm at home when i think this is most likely when the vehicle will be stolen as its left for a very long time unattended (no one listens to alarms anymore).

The issue i think you are referring too which is the one in Portugal (the most stressful one for me by far) from my point of view was most definitely attributed in some way to the non starter as i have already explained. I don't want to put fixes on here which is why i removed the earlier one but after taking this out of the equation the vehicle started first time and i never had any issues with it for the rest of the holiday.

I have already mentioned that i have received free subscription from Metatrak which is great and from the other post it was already mentioned that the system was exchanged foc when i returned. Again all good service and one that i am sure many can agree with, unfortunately i do not use the Motorhome very much and with recent events even less of course so seeing these issues for me is infrequent due to this so its difficult to see this all the time when i am not using the vehicle like most other people on here would be.

The last call i gave to Metatrak was in March this year which is when i last used the vehicle and once again after driving it for approx 3 hours and stopping for fuel it had nothing on the ignition. Of course the first thing i reached for was the phone to check the system to see if it was showing blocked (it was not). The next thing i went for was the fob which through my fault the battery was flat (although a user on here said there's also did not work but i cannot rule that out unless it happens to me). Then the final thing that i did was to send an unblock command from the app and almost immediately the vehicle then started. In my mind i have no doubt that somehow this unit is arming itself without me knowing and from my conversations with Metatrak i have been the only one which clearly this is not the case. Up until this thread i thought i was the only one with the issue.

Metatraks response was not a good one and i categorically said i dont want a free subscription i just want this to work as its intended but i believe their response was quite rude basically telling me these things happen and it was very rare (its not rare to me).

I also spoke to Vanbitz around this same time as well but i didnt want to go down the road of the systems always arming when i walk away and then unarming when i am near as to me this goes against what i brought it for and relies on certain conditions like having the fobs close all the time with the keys (as they are unlikely to be kept anywhere else). If there is another option will fulfills the need for me to only have this armed when at home please i really want i hear about it and if someone can call me that will be great or i can call whatever is easiest.

We will call you tomorrow morning if that is convenient?

 

[Ditcha]

Why tell the world, including prospective thieves, how our vehicle security works?? Anyone can read this forum I think - you don't have to be member to read stuff here.

By all means discuss the generics of faults, customer service etc. - Just not the detail of how the system works or if you can by-pass it.

The people that are capable enough to take your vehicle don't need to read a forum on how to do it .

 

[zac]

We will call you tomorrow morning if that is convenient?

Absolutely, anytime.

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[Steve and Denise]

The people that are capable enough to take your vehicle don't need to read a forum on how to do it .

That is very true they have a magic piece of RAC wire any self respecting scroat will know exactly where the pump/ relay and solenoid is without ripping out all the switch wiring only a complete clown would do that.

 

[eddie]

The fuel solenoid is a coded signal from the immobiliser built into the ignition key

The actual 12 volt connection is internal in the pump and isn't accessible, without a lot of work and there are easier ways

 

[Skez]

The people that are capable enough to take your vehicle don't need to read a forum on how to do it .

Whatever - crack on then. I'm more than aware of the capabilities of criminals.

 

[My Dog Likes Fishing]

I only wanted a contact number for Eddie lol. As Eddie says it turned out to be a cracked positive terminal connection on my battery terminal. Nothing to do with the non starter. It's great to know though that even stuck in a field in Norfolk at 10am on a Sunday morning I got a response from Vanbitz. A great after service. That's why I keep going back to them. Thanks Eddie and the crew. Sorry for causing so many problems on this thread.

 

[zac]

I only wanted a contact number for Eddie lol. As Eddie says it turned out to be a cracked positive terminal connection on my battery terminal. Nothing to do with the non starter. It's great to know though that even stuck in a field in Norfolk at 10am on a Sunday morning I got a response from Vanbitz. A great after service. That's why I keep going back to them. Thanks Eddie and the crew. Sorry for causing so many problems on this thread.

Sorry as i never intended for your thread to be the focul point for my non starter issues but it has highlighted i am not alone in this endeavour. Will wait for Vanbitz to reach out as i really want this to work

Apologies once again.

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[gerry mcg]

No idea! Will the thieves also have the keys so that the steering lock is off and the fuel pump active?

In the event of key theft, yes, Possibly.

 

[Brains]

eddievanbitz

I think what this thread has shown is there is obviously a known issue with engine blockers where they occasionally activate on their own.

The actual activation could happen at any point, but would obviously only be 'found' when the user tries to restart the vehicle after it has been switched off (which is why users typically find these problems in fuel stations and campsites)

My van has had this issue happen several times, as we are regular users of the engine blocker, I recognise the symptoms, (lights on the dash, no starter motor) and therefore I have 'fixed' the issue simply with my phone.

However I think some investigation may be required into what is activating the blocker, my personal experience makes me think it's caused by the alert/gate strips embedded in the tarmac, as the only places this has happened to me is in fuel stations and at camp site gates, but I could be wrong.

I had one in Germany recently,
I had driven to a campsite, parked outside, engine off for 10 mins.
Booked in.
Engine on. Moved 20m to in front of the gate. Engine off for 15 mins (as we were early)
Gate then opened remotely by reception.
We were then unable to start.
Engine blocker had been activated, I presume by the signal from the reception to the gate.

An activation LED may be a solution ....

From now on I'll keep an eye on this issue and see how often it occurs, it's rare, but it's happened several times in the 10,384 miles during the 374 journeys that I have done since you fitted the system two years ago.

 

[eddie]

eddievanbitz

I think what this thread has shown is there is obviously a known issue with engine blockers where they occasionally activate on their own.

Why? If by the logic that six posters have said that it has happened to them, if five hundred users posted saying that it had "never" happened to them would it be fair to say that its a known issue it doesn't happen to them!

I'm not arguing against you but as I said in my lengthy post I am unaware of any modern electrical appliance or gadget that doesn't need rebooting from time to time

Some of the reported posts took place years ago and were resurrected and requoted

One of the posts said that he couldn't start, and that the override made no difference, the next day it was fine? That doesn't prove that it was the Non Starter, no more so then the OP's belief that it was the Non Starter

There are thousands sold annually, there are tens of thousands of vehicles running around Europe on a daily basis, yes occasionally unexpected things occur, the same as vehicles break down, vehicles run out of fuel, vehicles get a blow out

That is why there is a robust two tier emergency override now.

If for any reason the vehicle won't start, simply put it into service mode or send the restart command (Like turning your mobile on and off when it doesn't behave) from your phone.

If your have no signal then you have a third option to send an emergency start command by Bluetooth from your Smart Phone to your Non Starter.

My Smart phone costs considerably more than the Non Starter which is £549 installed including the first years use

My Smart phone which contains pretty much the same technology is currently circa £1,100 and it vexes me, turning the ring volume down randomly, normally when my wife is ringing lol, App's move around, one minute the battery life is great, the next when I'm off out, its got 3% battery life, lots of things I don't understand but I wouldn't be with out it.

Brains if you need assistance contact us we will always help

 

[Brains]

Why? If by the logic that six posters have said that it has happened to them, if five hundred users posted saying that it had "never" happened to them would it be fair to say that its a known issue it doesn't happen to them!

I'm not arguing against you but as I said in my lengthy post I am unaware of any modern electrical appliance or gadget that doesn't need rebooting from time to time

Some of the reported posts took place years ago and were resurrected and requoted

One of the posts said that he couldn't start, and that the override made no difference, the next day it was fine? That doesn't prove that it was the Non Starter, no more so then the OP's belief that it was the Non Starter

There are thousands sold annually, there are tens of thousands of vehicles running around Europe on a daily basis, yes occasionally unexpected things occur, the same as vehicles break down, vehicles run out of fuel, vehicles get a blow out

That is why there is a robust two tier emergency override now.

If for any reason the vehicle won't start, simply put it into service mode or send the restart command (Like turning your mobile on and off when it doesn't behave) from your phone.

If your have no signal then you have a third option to send an emergency start command by Bluetooth from your Smart Phone to your Non Starter.

My Smart phone costs considerably more than the Non Starter which is £549 installed including the first years use

My Smart phone which contains pretty much the same technology is currently circa £1,100 and it vexes me, turning the ring volume down randomly, normally when my wife is ringing lol, App's move around, one minute the battery life is great, the next when I'm off out, its got 3% battery life, lots of things I don't understand but I wouldn't be with out it.

Brains if you need assistance contact us we will always help

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I will now keep a record of where and when it happens and see if I can isolate the reasons or replicate the issue on demand.
As I said, I suspect the cause is automated gates/alert systems as found in fuel stations and campsite gates.

 

[mapman]

“That is why there is a robust two tier emergency override now.

If for any reason the vehicle won't start, simply put it into service mode or send the restart command (Like turning your mobile on and off when it doesn't behave) from your phone.

If your have no signal then you have a third option to send an emergency start command by Bluetooth from your Smart Phone to your Non Starter.”

Is this third option the equivalent of using the additional NS fob we purchased,? Do all versions have the Bluetooth option or is it a recent addition? We had our NS and strikeback fitted in September 2020.

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[Mickey1]

eddievanbitz

I think what this thread has shown is there is obviously a known issue with engine blockers where they occasionally activate on their own.

The actual activation could happen at any point, but would obviously only be 'found' when the user tries to restart the vehicle after it has been switched off (which is why users typically find these problems in fuel stations and campsites)

My van has had this issue happen several times, as we are regular users of the engine blocker, I recognise the symptoms, (lights on the dash, no starter motor) and therefore I have 'fixed' the issue simply with my phone.

However I think some investigation may be required into what is activating the blocker, my personal experience makes me think it's caused by the alert/gate strips embedded in the tarmac, as the only places this has happened to me is in fuel stations and at camp site gates, but I could be wrong.

I had one in Germany recently,
I had driven to a campsite, parked outside, engine off for 10 mins.
Booked in.
Engine on. Moved 20m to in front of the gate. Engine off for 15 mins (as we were early)
Gate then opened remotely by reception.
We were then unable to start.
Engine blocker had been activated, I presume by the signal from the reception to the gate.

An activation LED may be a solution ....

From now on I'll keep an eye on this issue and see how often it occurs, it's rare, but it's happened several times in the 10,384 miles during the 374 journeys that I have done since you fitted the system two years ago.

you have just reminded me that this happened to me, while touring Scotland last year I pulled up at the gate and went to reception to check in, went back to the van turned ignition and nothing, grabbed my phone and although it was showing unblocked I decided to unblock anyway, it then started, to be honest I just forgot all about it until reading this thread. I must add that I’ve never had anything else happen in the five years I’ve had it.