DVLA and campervan definition

[mfrien]

Hi
I want to buy a panel van and convert it to a campervan ie install kitchen units, hob, fridge, water, fixed bed, seating. I won't have a shower or toilet. I will install a window on one side. I may have heating (not sure yet)
Do i need to reclassify this to a campervan , and if so do i need 2 windows on one side of the campervan
Or is what i am describing just still a panel van ?
Tks
Martin

 

[XxAnthxX]

Once it is re classified as M1, the speed limit does increase to 60mph on a single carriageway.

Not according to the current documents on the Dvla website....unless I’m missing it?

 

[Rob Turner]

Not according to the current documents on the Dvla website....unless I’m missing it?

 

[XxAnthxX]

ah ok....so what does the second paragraph in the current conversion document from the DVLA mean?

 

[Rob Turner]

ah ok....so what does the second paragraph in the current conversion document from the DVLA mean?

Haven’t read it??

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[XxAnthxX]

Haven’t read it??

I was just asking....

 

[Rob Turner]

Haven’t read it??

I was just asking....

I am only going off a personal experience as I re classed two T5s to M1
The converter did all the paperwork and pictures with a covering letter etc, I sent it off and the new V5 came back.

 

[34127]

I don't think the DVLA can make it any clearer regarding speed limits.
From their conversion guidelines.

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

Also, this a copy of an email from the DVLA regarding speed limits.


I refer to your email exchange below with IVS Enquiries, about motor caravan speed limits. I have been asked to respond as my team deals with policy on vehicle speeds.

I can confirm that the speed of your vehicle is not connected to the body type on your V5C registration form.

I have been informed by DVLA that all campervans, motor caravans and motor homes fall into the DVLA body type category of ‘motor caravan’. The body type information held on the DVLA’s records must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. If the exterior of the vehicle does not look like a motor caravan, DVLA will be unable to change the body type. However, vehicle keepers are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.

While DVLA say the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback they will be reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information they need and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.

Turning to the issue of speed limits for your vehicle; as I explained in my email to you of 21 August 2019, the national speed limits for different categories of road vehicle depend on how the vehicle is configured for use on the road. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Schedule 6 (link below), which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

The Department for Transport has produced guidance on the various speed limits on the gov.uk website (link below), which includes advice on motor caravans:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

As you will see, a motor caravan that exceeds 3.05 tonnes unladen weight is restricted to lower speeds than the national limits i.e. 70 mph on motorways; 60 mph on dual carriageways; 50 mph on single-carriageways, unless locally marked. If you draw a trailer (or trailers) of any type then lower limits apply.

If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...o-a-motorhome#dft-definition-of-motor-caravan

Please note that motor caravans which carry goods or burden not directly necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle, would be classed as goods vehicles and subject to current goods vehicle requirements for speed limits.

I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Helen

				Helen Grech Policy Advisor, Freight: Vehicle Speeds, Drivers’ Hours and Enforcement 2/21-23, Great Minster House 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR Mobile: 07717 800 687
				Follow us on twitter @transportgovuk NB: I work part-time; four days a week. I do not work on Friday

 

[XxAnthxX]

I am only going off a personal experience as I re classed two T5s to M1
The converter did all the paperwork and pictures with a covering letter etc, I sent it off and the new V5 came back.

I converted and re-classed a T5 and converted my last van but didn’t bother re-classifying It due to the height ( I’m not sure what constitutes a high top) and sticker restrictions

 

[XxAnthxX]

Motor caravan.....

Not a Motor caravan

It’s nonsense.....

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[Spriddler]

I believe that ferry fares are dearer for a panel van than for a camper/motorhome of similar length.

 

[XxAnthxX]

I believe that ferry fares are dearer for a panel van than for a m/h.

Dunno I only took the blue one to the TT and Manx/classic and as you know the Steampacket prices are ridiculous at those times.

i don’t think it was bad when I went to the NW200 in it tho...but then again I’d have been oblivious and have paid whatever it was ?

I know the MH is dearer than both through the Tyne tunnel?

 

[34127]

I believe that ferry fares are dearer for a panel van than for a camper/motorhome of similar length.

If it is converted to a campervan with additional windows etc but doesn't pass DVLA guidelines then it still will be accepted as a campervan by the ferry companies unless it is obvious from the inside that it is still carrying goods.

 

[Nasher]

Dunno I only took the blue one to the TT and Manx/classic and as you know the Steampacket prices are ridiculous at those times.

i don’t think it was bad when I went to the NW200 in it tho...but then again I’d have been oblivious and have paid whatever it was ?

I know the MH is dearer than both through the Tyne tunnel?

If it is converted to a campervan with additional windows etc but doesn't pass DVLA guidelines then it still will be accepted as a campervan by the ferry companies unless it is obvious from the inside that it is still carrying goods.

I was queried a couple of times by the Isle of Man Steam Packet in my T5 - I had a motorbike in the back, so they wanted to check it was a 'campervan' which is what I had booked. As soon as they saw the sink & cooker, they were happy.

It was registered as 'motor caravan' with DVLA but I don't think the Steam Packet have access to their records

As for the cost of the Steam Packet :

Since 1976, I've been a regular visitor to the Island - now retired, I go 2 or 3 times a year (TT/Manx GP/Classic TT + just popping over to blast around the TT circuit) I am always hearing/reading about the "high cost" of the IOM ferry

Now, people who complain, are normally comparing an off season, out of hours (i.e cheap) Dover-Calais crossing with a peak time (TT races) Liverpool/Heysham-Douglas. Unsurprisingly, there's a big difference!

So, a couple of years ago, when down with man flu, just for fun, I checked ferry prices for my motorhome

I looked at off peak returns for my motorhome - £105 for France £215 for isle of man

For peak times: £205 for France £415 for Isle of Man

Now given that the Isle of Man is over 3 times the distance - it's actually cheaper per mile than Dover-Calais!

 

[XxAnthxX]

TBF the price is ridiculous....I can get a return to Dublin on the same date in June for less (40quid more if I picked the premium crossings)

Do I care.....not in the least, it’s worth every penny once you get there.

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[Nasher]

TBF the price is ridiculous....I can get a return to Dublin on the same date in June for less (40quid more if I picked the premium crossings)

Do I care.....not in the least, it’s worth every penny once you get there.

Whilst I agree with you that it's worth every penny, what would the cost comparison be to dublin at peak times - I'm guessing saturday morning, last week in July?

 

[XxAnthxX]

Looks up about 50 quid on a premium return on the 25th July as apposed to the 2nd June


Anyway we digress......

 

[Nasher]

View attachment 383858

Looks up about 50 quid on a premium return on the 25th July as apposed to the 2nd June


Anyway we digress......

Thanks for that - gonna have to do some Irish races next year

 

[Otter Spotter]

It's all on DVLA website.
Interior......
Windows
Bed
Table
Seating
Water
Waste water
Cooker/microwave
Wardrobe/cupboard

Exterior....
High top roof (pop top not permitted)
Motorhome type decals, Stickers, transfers
Awning rail.

It has to look like a motorhome, not a panel van.
You don't have to do anything but it remains registered as a panel van and must be insured as such.
As a panel van your insurance WON'T cover anything you built inside.... It will be based purely on a panel van.

Can I correct your last para re insurance is not true, I converted my panel vanand it was insured fully by Caravan guard for everything inside even though not completed for 12 months.
i have applied to DVLA to reclassify and am just waiting for v5 to be returned.

 

[gus-lopez]

it is in the the document I posted linked to the DVLA website I cut and pasted the text in my post about it from the document, it’s in the second paragraph under the blue heading.

Whatever speed it was allowed as a van remains unchanged, I don’t know the weight of the van but here’s the UK speeds.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

here is the classification document again.....

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

As others have posted as long as you can get 'motorhome' on the log book & it doesn't weigh over 3050kgs unladen the the limits increase to same as cars.

Not according to the current documents on the Dvla website....unless I’m missing it?

Never believe anything they say or print.it is only when you pin them down after 5 or 6 emails & involve the EU 'solvit' process that you will get the correct answer from someone who actually knows.

ah ok....so what does the second paragraph in the current conversion document from the DVLA mean?

Just the usual nonsense.

I don't think the DVLA can make it any clearer regarding speed limits.
From their conversion guidelines.

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

Also, this a copy of an email from the DVLA regarding speed limits.


I refer to your email exchange below with IVS Enquiries, about motor caravan speed limits. I have been asked to respond as my team deals with policy on vehicle speeds.

I can confirm that the speed of your vehicle is not connected to the body type on your V5C registration form.

I have been informed by DVLA that all campervans, motor caravans and motor homes fall into the DVLA body type category of ‘motor caravan’. The body type information held on the DVLA’s records must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. If the exterior of the vehicle does not look like a motor caravan, DVLA will be unable to change the body type. However, vehicle keepers are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.

While DVLA say the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback they will be reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information they need and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.

Turning to the issue of speed limits for your vehicle; as I explained in my email to you of 21 August 2019, the national speed limits for different categories of road vehicle depend on how the vehicle is configured for use on the road. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Schedule 6 (link below), which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

The Department for Transport has produced guidance on the various speed limits on the gov.uk website (link below), which includes advice on motor caravans:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

As you will see, a motor caravan that exceeds 3.05 tonnes unladen weight is restricted to lower speeds than the national limits i.e. 70 mph on motorways; 60 mph on dual carriageways; 50 mph on single-carriageways, unless locally marked. If you draw a trailer (or trailers) of any type then lower limits apply.

If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...o-a-motorhome#dft-definition-of-motor-caravan

Please note that motor caravans which carry goods or burden not directly necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle, would be classed as goods vehicles and subject to current goods vehicle requirements for speed limits.

I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Helen

				Helen Grech Policy Advisor, Freight: Vehicle Speeds, Drivers’ Hours and Enforcement 2/21-23, Great Minster House 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR Mobile: 07717 800 687
				Follow us on twitter @transportgovuk NB: I work part-time; four days a week. I do not work on Friday

& as this paragrph from your email reply makes perfectly clear chaning to "motorhome" from panel van & being under the 3050kgs U/L increases the speed limits.

"If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car."

Motor caravan.....
View attachment 383811

Not a Motor caravan
View attachment 383812

It’s nonsense.....

Exactly!

I believe that ferry fares are dearer for a panel van than for a camper/motorhome of similar length.

Yes they are ,So just book as a camper van. As long as no goods being carried = no problem dfds told me.

If it is converted to a campervan with additional windows etc but doesn't pass DVLA guidelines then it still will be accepted as a campervan by the ferry companies unless it is obvious from the inside that it is still carrying goods.

I actually queried this online/email/live chat & by phone with dfds last year & had no problems with no windows whatsoever.

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[vantastic]

I'm towards the end of my conversion now and will soon be sending off papers. It's a really proper conversion and I don't think anyone would argue it isn't a campervan but there are 2 points on the list I fall foul of. 1 being the camper style graphics. I hate them. I hate them so much. But I will plaster on some graphics for photos and then take them off again. Stickers can change.

The awning rail though. I'm installing an actual retractable awning, do I still need a rail? Then again, I might not have the awning in time for photos....

 

[Rob Turner]

I'm towards the end of my conversion now and will soon be sending off papers. It's a really proper conversion and I don't think anyone would argue it isn't a campervan but there are 2 points on the list I fall foul of. 1 being the camper style graphics. I hate them. I hate them so much. But I will plaster on some graphics for photos and then take them off again. Stickers can change.

The awning rail though. I'm installing an actual retractable awning, do I still need a rail? Then again, I might not have the awning in time for photos....

There’s an awning on there, no rail and no graphics either and that was re classed as a motorhome.
Just send loads of good pictures and write on the rear and it’ll be fine.
Unless things have changed in 8 years but wouldn’t think so.

 

[XxAnthxX]

Unless things have changed in 8 years but wouldn’t think so.

The rules have changed twice since last August.....including the 30th April 2020

 

[Rob Turner]

The rules have changed twice since last August.....including the 30th April 2020

What’s changed?

 

[XxAnthxX]

What’s changed?

I’m not sure....I didn’t bother doing my last one, but I believe the decals and pop top stuff was only added last year

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[34127]

What has changed is the majority of application are being refused reclassification to Motor Caravan and are classified as a van with windows. Even professional convertors are now getting refusals.
The main criteria is that apart from meeting the new guidelines, the vehicle has to look like a motor caravan as opposed to a van with windows. The vehicle shown above would almost certainly be refused at the moment.
It isn't that important to get the 'Motor Caravan' type on your reg certificate as if it is converted internally to meet the DVLA guidelines then it can still be used as a motor caravan and have the benefits associated.

 

[SpeedyDux]

What has changed is the majority of application are being refused reclassification to Motor Caravan and are classified as a van with windows. Even professional convertors are now getting refusals.
The main criteria is that apart from meeting the new guidelines, the vehicle has to look like a motor caravan as opposed to a van with windows. The vehicle shown above would almost certainly be refused at the moment.
It isn't that important to get the 'Motor Caravan' type on your reg certificate as if it is converted internally to meet the DVLA guidelines then it can still be used as a motor caravan and have the benefits associated.

I had the impression that DVLA getting tough with re-classifying self-build conversions as Motor Caravans could be to make it more difficult for MH thieves to get the logbook changed on panel vans and use the details to swap identies with stolen MHs before selling them on.

 

[34127]

I had the impression that DVLA getting tough with re-classifying self-build conversions as Motor Caravans could be to make it more difficult for MH thieves to get the logbook changed on panel vans and use the details to swap identies with stolen MHs before selling them on.

The DVLA said it was so that a police officer or member of the public could identify a vehicle more accurately from external appearance but who knows the proper reason.