Ducato with 6 speed manual gearbox. Is the gearbox good or bad?. (1 Viewer)

[Clewie68]

Hello everyone.

I've got the idea of changing my order on a new Ducato and opting for a 6 speed manual gearbox rather than an automatic gearbox. The main reason I'm considering this is because I will more than likely get the new 8 speed automatic gearbox and not the much loved ZF 9 speed gearbox. I'm concerned the new, lighter, cheaper box might be a bad choice. Maybe it could be just as good as the ZF.

My questions is posed to all owners of the Ducato with the six speed manual gearbox. Do you like the gearbox or wish you had a automatic gearbox?. What do you love or hate about the manual gearbox. Please be as definitive as you can.

Kind regards to everyone and thank you for taking the time to read and post.

Mark.

 

[maison]

Yes you can manually lock into a gear and change up or down. Useful for hill descents etc. where you need good engine braking.

There are also three driving modes.

D = normal driving
P = holds onto lower gear for longer to give better acceleration or hill climbing
E = changes up sooner to save fuel

We tend to leave it in D unless on a very steep, winding mountain pass.

9 speed box described above. No knowledge of the 8.

 

[Clewie68]

Yes you can manually lock into a gear and change up or down. Useful for hill descents etc. where you need good engine braking.

There are also three driving modes.

D = normal driving
P = holds onto lower gear for longer to give better acceleration or hill climbing
E = changes up sooner to save fuel

We tend to leave it in D unless on a very steep, winding mountain pass.

9 speed box described above. No knowledge of the 8.

That's good news. I think Fiat would keep those features with the new gearbox.

 

[maison]

That's good news. I think Fiat would keep those features with the new gearbox.

Regarding “block changing” (never heard that expression before) I don’t think so but, in normal use you don’t feel the change so never thought about it.

 

[Clewie68]

Regarding “block changing” (never heard that expression before) I don’t think so but, in normal use you don’t feel the change so never thought about it.

Like you said in your previous post about the E mode on the automatic. It will change up sooner. The lorry is the same. It'll change up two gears instead of one. Sometimes it's too much, the lorry would struggle a little and wouldn't attempt to drop down. I used to find it very annoying in the DAF CF. I think the Dutch are better at making tulips than lorries,. I wouldn't think a campervan would do this but I had to ask the question to make my final decision about which gearbox to choose. I think the automatic has enough options/modes to make it a sensible choice.

I block change in my manual six speed car, up and down. It's got a big engine and plenty of torque which makes it easy. I'll always love the manual though. I found it funny how Porsche withdrew their manual gearbox from the 911 GT3, (my favourite car). The fallout was massive and they put it back.

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[pat100]

Coming from a slushbox automatic vehicle, the only problem I have in my Boxer 6 speed is forgetting which gear I’m in. Especially 1st vs Reverse. I’ve extracted myself from some very silly predicaments in mud using the fine control allowed by clutch slipping.

 

[LostInSpace]

I've got two more questions for the automatic owners.
1, Has it got a sequential option?. Can I decide, if I don't like the gear the gearbox has selected, move a gear up or down?.
2, Does the gearbox block change?. (Usually two gears up or down).

1. If I understand you correctly, then the answer is No. But it does have manual control - up or down a gear at a time.
2. Never noticed it do that. But you have to listen/watch carefully to notice any of the changes.

 

[LostInSpace]

We tend to leave it in D unless on a very steep, winding mountain pass.

Yes, the power moder is good to have on hills. I tthink it helps going downhill as well.

The Economy mode is best ignored.

 

[sarumsteve]

Not sure what you mean by good or bad.

If you want auto get it and live with the consequences whatever they may be.

Personally I have 6 speed manual - I bought new model on the forecourt with manual.....didnt want to wait and order. But.....I find driving manual keeps me more engaged in the driving process. Also auto gearbox was a 50 kg slug out of payload.


Over 5 years and 17500miles it has done its job without problem

 

[dunnah01]

Comfortmatic is auto and manual - best of both worlds

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[TrudeandDall]

Wow, thank you everyone for the great input, very interesting.

I think I might stick with the automatic. I could be wrong and may get the 9 speed instead of the new 8. If not that new 8 speed has more than likely gone through some extensive testing. Fiat would want a reliable gearbox to keep their strong market place. It could work out to be better than the 9 speed. Only time will tell.

I've got two more questions for the automatic owners.
1, Has it got a sequential option?. Can I decide, if I don't like the gear the gearbox has selected, move a gear up or down?.
2, Does the gearbox block change?. (Usually two gears up or down).

In my time driving HGV's, many tractor units with modern automatic boxes have different modes of operation. Fully automatic. (The lorry does what it wants all the time). Automatic with a sequential option, the box would allow me to go one gear up or down from the selected gear. It could also drive with a full manual sequential option allowing full control and no input from the lorry.

The most annoying thing about the automatic gearbox is. It hasn't got the slightest idea about the weight, the incline or decline of the road, the condition of the road surface. It used to drive my crazy when the lorry used to block change uphill, struggle because it's one gear too high, then the lorry behind is on my arse or I've lost the option to overtake the lorry in front. I'm going to find it very entertaining when Elon Musk eventually puts a fully autonomous lorry on road. (I'm staying at home that day).

I also have 35 years on trucks with many different gearboxes, so block changing is normal for me, especially when going into roundabouts. I still do it all of the time with the car - brakes to slow then (correct) gear to go!
But there is no need for block changing on the ZF AT9 box as it is ever so slick at changing down through the gears as you decrease speed - it's a dream......
As for using E mode - I only use this on flat motorway runs and once I am up to cruising speed that will hold 9th. It hangs in for way to long, you loose speed and it will not accelerate with out going like a slug..

 

[Marky146]

Wow, thank you everyone for the great input, very interesting.

I think I might stick with the automatic. I could be wrong and may get the 9 speed instead of the new 8. If not that new 8 speed has more than likely gone through some extensive testing. Fiat would want a reliable gearbox to keep their strong market place. It could work out to be better than the 9 speed. Only time will tell.

I've got two more questions for the automatic owners.
1, Has it got a sequential option?. Can I decide, if I don't like the gear the gearbox has selected, move a gear up or down?.
2, Does the gearbox block change?. (Usually two gears up or down).

In my time driving HGV's, many tractor units with modern automatic boxes have different modes of operation. Fully automatic. (The lorry does what it wants all the time). Automatic with a sequential option, the box would allow me to go one gear up or down from the selected gear. It could also drive with a full manual sequential option allowing full control and no input from the lorry.

The most annoying thing about the automatic gearbox is. It hasn't got the slightest idea about the weight, the incline or decline of the road, the condition of the road surface. It used to drive my crazy when the lorry used to block change uphill, struggle because it's one gear too high, then the lorry behind is on my arse or I've lost the option to overtake the lorry in front. I'm going to find it very entertaining when Elon Musk eventually puts a fully autonomous lorry on road. (I'm staying at home that day).

I’d be in line to get a drive if I were you. It doesn’t have a gearbox! Just gobs of torque at any speed! You get all the range you need, you just spend your tacho breaks on the charger. They’ll be total game changers when they start coming in proper numbers.

 

[Clewie68]

I’d be in line to get a drive if I were you. It doesn’t have a gearbox! Just gobs of torque at any speed! You get all the range you need, you just spend your tacho breaks on the charger. They’ll be total game changers when they start coming in proper numbers.

You've totally lost me.

 

[leatho]

It’s strange isn’t it… with everyday motoring I can absolutely see the case people put forward for automatics, particularly real torque converter autos. But in the use case you suggest you have way way more control with a manual, always will have!

Especially when you have a plane to catch lol

 

[Guigsy]

I would expect the new 8 speed to perform similarly to the 9 speed. It's not a brand new design, so hopefully most of the kinks will have been worked out. I don't think it's been used in a vehicle as large a large van before. But torque converter autos generally cope, provided they are well cooled. The promotional bumpf on the new box does specifically mention motorhomes, so there's a reasonable chance it'll be ok. Personally I'd take the risk and order the auto.

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[Jon2]

Hello everyone.

I've got the idea of changing my order on a new Ducato and opting for a 6 speed manual gearbox rather than an automatic gearbox. The main reason I'm considering this is because I will more than likely get the new 8 speed automatic gearbox and not the much loved ZF 9 speed gearbox. I'm concerned the new, lighter, cheaper box might be a bad choice. Maybe it could be just as good as the ZF.

My questions is posed to all owners of the Ducato with the six speed manual gearbox. Do you like the gearbox or wish you had a automatic gearbox?. What do you love or hate about the manual gearbox. Please be as definitive as you can.

Kind regards to everyone and thank you for taking the time to read and post.

Mark.

We bought a Hymer with the 6 speed manual because that was what was available. Having initially thought we’d prefer an automatic we’ve been very happy with the manual. Very pleased that it has ‘hill hold’ tho’. It would be a pain without.

 

[VXman]

I wouldn’t swap my 9 speed auto for a 6 speed manual. They are in totally different classes.

Of course, one changes gears automatically and the other you have to do it

 

[VXman]

The 6 speed manual is a good solid box, nothing more, nothing less. I have done 30,000 miles and found it smooth, easy and reliable.

 

[Clewie68]

The 6 speed manual is a good solid box, nothing more, nothing less. I have done 30,000 miles and found it smooth, easy and reliable.

Nice post. I've noticed no one as yet has talked about durability and how many miles they have done with the same gearbox except you. One concern I have is the durability and longevity. Since the 8 speed isn't tried and tested, that worries me. The six speed has years of service and from what people are saying, it pretty durable.

Unlike other people, I'm only buying once and considering driving around for as long as I can. The strength of the gearbox is really the number one feature I'm looking for. There's a lot of people talking about the automatic's ease of use. I don't mind the manual and having to use my hand more. I should of asked about the durability when I started the threat really. My fault.

I think yesterday I was opting for the automatic but today I'm back to square one and wondering about the manual again.

 

[Clewie68]

Not sure what you mean by good or bad.

If you want auto get it and live with the consequences whatever they may be.

Personally I have 6 speed manual - I bought new model on the forecourt with manual.....didnt want to wait and order. But.....I find driving manual keeps me more engaged in the driving process. Also auto gearbox was a 50 kg slug out of payload.


Over 5 years and 17500miles it has done its job without problem

I should of written strengths and weaknesses rather than good and bad, but you've got the gist. Great point about the weight of the automatic and the increased payload of the manual.

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[Clewie68]

I would expect the new 8 speed to perform similarly to the 9 speed. It's not a brand new design, so hopefully most of the kinks will have been worked out. I don't think it's been used in a vehicle as large a large van before. But torque converter autos generally cope, provided they are well cooled. The promotional bumpf on the new box does specifically mention motorhomes, so there's a reasonable chance it'll be ok. Personally I'd take the risk and order the auto.

Is the AT8 a revised edition of what has been put in Citroën cars?. I'm trying to find out whether it's been around the block a few times and what people thought about. I've noticed you and Lenny know quite alot about the finer details of campervans/motorhomes.

 

[Clewie68]

Personally I have 6 speed manual - I bought new model on the forecourt with manual.....didnt want to wait and order. But.....I find driving manual keeps me more engaged in the driving process. Also auto gearbox was a 50 kg slug out of payload.

That 50kg slug lives in my garden noshing my perennials.

 

[maison]

Clewie68
Regarding durability of the six speed gearbox.

At one time we lived in France for much of the year and used our motorhomes to travel extensively around Europe, clocking up a fair few miles on each. Although we changed m/h’s regularly, (we are on our 9th over 40+ years), our largest mileage was 73,386 miles. All covered without any gearbox problems and on the original clutch!

Although we love the 9 speed automatic box on our present motorhome, and wouldn’t consider going back to manual at present, we have only covered 26,000 miles with it, (all trouble free), so can’t yet comment on its long term reliability. However, we have no reason to doubt it.

Good luck with your decision and your search.

 

[ANDKEZLULA]

I have the 9spd auto. 3yrs & 21k later I still love it. Having been in the garage trade 40 yrs feel im fairly experienced in most vehicles except hgv. There is no way I would ever consider a manual motorhome after the introduction of proper autos, even though I had slight bother with this box a few thousand miles ago. its a lovely gear change & can't really think of any bad points. Ive had lots of early clutch failure on all makes of vans resulting in clutch & dual mass replacement.Time & higher mileages will give a better picture of reliability.

 

[Clewie68]

Clewie68
Regarding durability of the six speed gearbox.

At one time we lived in France for much of the year and used our motorhomes to travel extensively around Europe, clocking up a fair few miles on each. Although we changed m/h’s regularly, (we are on our 9th over 40+ years), our largest mileage was 73,386 miles. All covered without any gearbox problems and on the original clutch!

Although we love the 9 speed automatic box on our present motorhome, and wouldn’t consider going back to manual at present, we have only covered 26,000 miles with it, (all trouble free), so can’t yet comment on its long term reliability. However, we have no reason to doubt it.

Good luck with your decision and your search.

9th?, 9th?. Struth. Is your real name Gordon Gekko?. 73,386 miles, I'm liking that fact a lot.

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[Guigsy]

The general consensus is the new 8 speed is a licensed build of the Aisin AW F8FXX.

AWF8F35 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Pete-W]

I specified the 6 speed manual box on our now 3 year old Dreamer Camper XL and think it's great.

There is not much I can say about it other than it feels taught and positive and well-mated to our factory power upgraded engine at 160bhp. Ergonomically in my Ducato base vehicle it works great for me at 6ft 3" with the seat at it's highest adjustment.

I have never regretted my decision however I should add that I don't like automatics or to my mind the added complexity they bring but I'm fully aware that autos are not what they used to be so each to their own

 

[Pete-W]

We bought a Hymer with the 6 speed manual because that was what was available. Having initially thought we’d prefer an automatic we’ve been very happy with the manual. Very pleased that it has ‘hill hold’ tho’. It would be a pain without.

+1 for hill hold, forgot about that, we have it with our 6 speed manual too!

 

[Clewie68]

The general consensus is the new 8 speed is a licensed build of the Aisin AW F8FXX.

I must admit most of that went over my head but it's been around for a while and knowing they used it in the Lexus RX350 F Sport gives it a lot credibility.

 

[Dolmen]

Reading your comments above it would appear you would not regret the manual, however, you may regret the automatic so it would seem manual is your safest choice, they are proven over high mileage across Europe from old farts in motorhomes to delivery drivers with more drops than hours. No one and nothing though would persuade me to give my 9 speed auto back, however, as a few have said above, we are all different

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[Clewie68]

Reading your comments above it would appear you would not regret the manual, however, you may regret the automatic so it would seem manual is your safest choice, they are proven over high mileage across Europe from old farts in motorhomes to delivery drivers with more drops than hours. No one and nothing though would persuade me to give my 9 speed auto back, however, as a few have said above, we are all different

I think today I'm swaying towards a manual again. I'm finding it difficult to choose. I'll definitely pop up and talk to the dealership next week and have a little talk about the gearboxes.