Ducato handbrake

[Figaro]

2003 Hymer B544 A class.

On MOT last September, it failed initially on ineffective handbrake.
It was in going in an unconnected garage workshop for other work so I asked them to look at it. They said they adjusted it but never felt any different, it just about clicks three times, so not a lot of travel before or after adjustment.

On retest, it passed MOT with tester in cab working handbrake, I was doing it first time.
To be honest I think he gave a jab on the footbrake to get it through.

So my question is, how can I improve things for next MOT ?
I've always been aware it's not very effective so always park in gear and have chocks.
It's the 'tophat' set up with handbrake shoes inside the disk / drum.
Would removing the disk and scuffing up the shoes help or new shoes as I'm guessing they're original but not particularly worn ?
TIA

 

[Gellyneck]

There could be a glaze on the shoes \ drums so roughening may help however if you've got them dismantled you'd probably be as well fitting new shoes, maybe around £25-30.

 

[SandraL]

Assuming you have a fiat base van. Our 2005 fiat/alko had fiat brakes which I thought were drum brakes.
I had thought the disc top hat with handbrake drum brake came with the x250 van circa 2007.

I may have remebered wrong, but can you confirm definately the fiat disc top hat type.

If so jack rear axle, remove 1 wheel bolt each side.
With handbrake off spin wheel, spins freely? Then shine torch into missing bolt hole and turn wheel until you can see the handbrake adjuster, set so wheel drags and then back off 3 clicks. Wheel should spin freely. Do other side.
Then remove slack from main handbrake cable, under van where front cable meets rear cables. You need front cable to have just enough tension to lift the backstop. Will become clear once you see it.

 

[68c]

Drum adjustment not that straight forward. I found you have to slacken the cable off first then do adjustment. There are at least three different designs of adjusters, you can only adjust to tighten, a flimsy spring pawl acts as a ratchet which you may distort if turning the wrong way. You are best off fully slackening the cable then taking the drum off to see how it all works. If the drums have done a high mileage there may be an unworn lip on the inside making it hard to pull the drum off, in the past I have had to cut the drum apart with an angle grinder.
Good luck.

 

[Landy Andy]

Simple system but most the time it’s been wrongly, and lazily adjusted, by just tightening the cable.


Slacken cable, remove all rear brakes, clean properly then fit drums, and adjust park brake shoes properly, then adjust cable to get the lever operating them properly. By doing it this way I can get my van easily through the MOT.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheBig1]

It HAS to be adjusted using the correct procedure or it just won't improve

 

[7Hvn]

It HAS to be adjusted using the correct procedure or it just won't improve

Thanks for this!

Is it the same procedure for a tag axle on an Alko MAXI chassis only with 4 wheels to adjust? Or is there an additional balancer for the 2nd, rear most axle?

Thanks in advance

 

[TheBig1]

there is one for each axle

 

[Figaro]

Thanks for information on adjustment, I'm not sure that's the problem though as there is not much travel on the handbrake.
I'm thinking it's more likely the shoes hardened off or glazed and whether scuffing them would help, but I suppose if I go to the bother of getting the disc off, I may as well fit new shoes ?

 

[donkey]

Thanks for information on adjustment, I'm not sure that's the problem though as there is not much travel on the handbrake.
I'm thinking it's more likely the shoes hardened off or glazed and whether scuffing them would help, but I suppose if I go to the bother of getting the disc off, I may as well fit new shoes ?

Sorry but you have not understood the adjustment process detailed above. Yes your handbrake has very little travel, but that is probably due to someone having taken all slack out of the cables. Useless unless the drum/shoe adjusters have been correctly set up and adjusted first.
It really is a case of de-adjusting all cables, removing drums, cleaning and lubricating all mechanism points, re-assembling and then carrying out the adjusting procedure correctly and in the right order.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dobbyt]

Lack of travel could be a seized cable.

The balancing cable across the axle that the central handbrake cable pulls on to operate both brake shoe levers simultaneously can seize.

Check both cable ends are sliding freely in their sleeve by relaxing internal adjuster completely and check for easy movement of cable within the cable sleeve. Pulling will be up against brake tension springs but on release the cable should retract completely.

My cable deteriorated despite annual lubrication at the free cable ends.

After a complete dismantling of rear brake, caliper and caliper carrier removal, and cable removal did it become clear lack of lubrication at the brake end of the sleeve meant the cable had rusted badly and strands of the cable had broken off and were jamming against the sleeve.

So £150 for a new cable and some silicone grease, and a new lubrication plan are on for 2022!

I also have my doubts about the friction material used on some branded brake shoes that 'fit' these brakes but are not 'designed' for this type of brake. At least one manufacturer admits they only use one type of friction material across all their shoes. This is damming because the friction requirements for a small diameter parking only brake, like ours, are different from a full sized service brake. One type does not suit all.

I am reshoeing mine soon.

 

[Figaro]

Sorry but you have not understood the adjustment process detailed above.

Yes, apologies I skipped over it thinking that wasn't the problem.
Thank you for pointing out my short comings in this area
I'll do as you suggest and carry out the full adjustment proceeds.

 

[chatteris]

sometimes its the cables, they seem to collapse the outer and bind inner when you starting pull on the lever, had a ducato pvc fail on handbrake before christmas, owner stripped cleaned and adjusted rear brakes and brought it in for a retest I put it through rollers first and it was still below requirements so did not do retest and told him to fit new cables

 

[dobbyt]

Lack of travel could be a seized cable.

The balancing cable across the axle that the central handbrake cable pulls on to operate both brake shoe levers simultaneously can seize.

Check both cable ends are sliding freely in their sleeve by relaxing internal adjuster completely and check for easy movement of cable within the cable sleeve. Pulling will be up against brake tension springs but on release the cable should retract completely.

My cable deteriorated despite annual lubrication at the free cable ends.

After a complete dismantling of rear brake, caliper and caliper carrier removal, and cable removal did it become clear lack of lubrication at the brake end of the sleeve meant the cable had rusted badly and strands of the cable had broken off and were jamming against the sleeve.

So £150 for a new cable and some silicone grease, and a new lubrication plan are on for 2022!

I also have my doubts about the friction material used on some branded brake shoes that 'fit' these brakes but are not 'designed' for this type of brake. At least one manufacturer admits they only use one type of friction material across all their shoes. This is damming because the friction requirements for a small diameter parking only brake, like ours, are different from a full sized service brake. One type does not suit all.

I am reshoeing mine soon.

UPDATE:

As a result of all the above and including the reshoeing with a softer material MOT fails due lack of handbrake, are a thing of the past. Tests that were producing failing 12% figures have been superceded by 22%, with figures rising each year.

I highly recommend softer reshoeing rather the buying of the off-the-shelf glazing shoes.

 

[Hydrocell]

Hi I’m interested in getting softer brake shoes where can I get them from please
Ray

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Spriddler]

Hi I’m interested in getting softer brake shoes where can I get them from please
Ray

I've used this firm for my old motorbikes and they say they reline modern shoes 'for campervans' so worth a call ........

https://saftek.co.uk/friction-products-for-classic-vehicles-and-race-applications/

 

[Figaro]

dobbyt

As an update, I struggled to get the rear disk off to check the brake shoes which I'd planned to replace.
So whilst it was booked in the garage for something else I asked the garage to do it.
After removing the disks they said the shoes were fine, cleaned them up, refitted and adjusted the handbrake.
At the MOT in August the handbrake test almost threw the van off the rollers
So it's now working fine

 

[Hydrocell]

Thanks spridderler that’s what I was looking for many thanks for your reply
Regards Ray