Ducato 9 Speed Auto Gearbox Overheating (1 Viewer)

[MoHoSam]

Looks like we've got almost exactly the same issue. After an 18 month wait, we picked up our new Sonic Supreme in May. We had 5000 trouble free miles before breaking down in Belgium in August with possible electrical/automatic gearbox issues. We had the same warning messages as those experienced by Waggysenior. After attempting and failing to get help from Fiat in Belgium we returned to the UK and 2 weeks later our van was repatriated to a Fiat Professional dealership near us (West Midlands). Yesterday, on guidance from Fiat new solenoids were fitted, but that hasn't fixed the problem and Fiat now want the dealership to do more tests.

We have a Fiat Professional Customer Care case worker who is not returning calls and as yet we have not received any compensation for our cancelled holidays and the Eurostar tickets needed to get us home.

We're feeling very frustrated and fed up as we've been without our motorhome for 6 weeks and as we've recently retired we'd like to spend as much time as possible in it! Should a new ZF gearbox fail so soon? And should Fiat be working more quickly to get the vehicle back on the road?

 

[Lenny HB]

A lot depends on the dealer and their relationship with Fiat, some dealers are able to get things sorted much quicker.

AM at Portsmouth run the Motorhome section seperate to the trucks and appear to get much better results than other dealers.

 

[TinaLes]

Reading this is so disappointing! After years of hearing about problems with SOME of The Crapomatic Gearboxes, it was a relief to many that they have now been replaced with a proper ZF Auto Box with torque converter.
You now need deep pockets to order an engine upgrade in terms of power, then the same again for an auto box.
I suppose its too much to expect any MH dealer to check all oil levels engine & Gearbox, Brake & coolant levels as part of a proper PDI these days, or is it?

Like many I did hear that Fiat were going to stop fitting ZF gearboxes to motor homes in the near future, but we didnt get a firm reason why answer to this, maybe the dealers that announced it don't know either?
Well I guess time will tell, but Fiat will be reluctant to admit there is/was a problem as usual.
If anyone does find out whether the cancelling of The ZF Box is true or not, perhaps they can share a reason, if they know it.
Cheers.
LES

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[Abgs]

Winding up and down the mountains in France at 30deg plus last month gave ours a good workout as it's the 140bhp/9G combo. Gearbox has been superb so far ... there you go, I've now jinxed it!

 

[LithiumConvert]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.

We have a different problem with the 9 speed gearbox. no idea if it is related.

Driving in heavy stop/start traffic on a UK motorway, the engine did not automatically start.

After switching everything off it did start manuallly (although I did notice that all of the gear lever white lights were on).

However, after driving off the motorway, it has not started since.

The diagnostics now show no response from the gearbox ECU.

and Fiat now want the dealership to do more tests.

This fault sounds familiar.

 

[LithiumConvert]

So now they have changed the ........ and the gearbox ECU.

How big a job is that? Is it simple like the Airbag ECU on our last 'van.

Anybody know the cost?

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[SpeedyDux]

Are the ComfortMatic and ZF 9 speed failure groups having merger talks yet?

 

[MoHoSam]

Really NOT a merry Christmas from Fiat. You might remember my post from the beginning of October. A new Adria moho picked up in May (after 18 months wait), and the ZF gearbox failure in Belgium, less than four months later! Fiat accepted that a new gearbox is required over a month ago (after much time-wasting by them), and we are still waiting for it. Now over four months off the road. Personally I don't think this is acceptable. Much 'pushing' by us, Adria UK and the Fiat Professional dealership (waiting to carry out the work) has not had any effect. Anyone else had the same experience?

 

[Lenny HB]

A friend had his replaced earlier in the year, similar problem they replaced the gearbox, torque converter & ECU took about two weeks to get the parts.

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[WESTY66]

Are the ComfortMatic and ZF 9 speed failure groups having merger talks yet?

Comfortmatic failure???
NEVER!!

Fake news

 

[jongood]

What is it with Fiat and Automatics? Its not exactly new technology, Torque converter boxes have been around for years.

 

[Diabalo]

What is it with Fiat and Automatics? Its not exactly new technology, Torque converter boxes have been around for years.

Comfortmatic is a cheap way of doing auto

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[SpeedyDux]

What is it with Fiat and Automatics? Its not exactly new technology, Torque converter boxes have been around for years.

Wasn't the 9 speed ZF originally put in Jeeps by Chrysler (now part of Stellantis group) - there were quite a few reported early failures that eventually were ironed out. It is a leap of faith to use the same ZF autobox in much heavier MHs.

I would prefer Fiat to develop a self-charging hybrid EV drivetrain, direct drive using a traction motor, eliminating the need for complex gearboxes.

Both Toyota and Honda have mastered this kind of technology and made it very reliable. No need for Fiat/Stellantis to reinvent the wheel.

 

[jongood]

Comfortmatic is a cheap way of doing auto

These are the new Torque Converter boxes

 

[jongood]

Wasn't the 9 speed ZF originally put in Jeeps by Chrysler (now part of Stellantis group) - there were quite a few reported early failures that eventually were ironed out. It is a leap of faith to use the same ZF autobox in much heavier MHs.

I would prefer Fiat to develop a self-charging hybrid EV drivetrain, direct drive using a traction motor, eliminating the need for complex gearboxes.

Both Toyota and Honda have mastered this kind of technology and made it very reliable. No need for Fiat/Stellantis to reinvent the wheel.

Definitely think this is the best answer for most commercials, probably for a long time.

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[Soycd]

Hail storm damage in France

Not wanting to divert the thread, but the mention of hail took me back to 2013 when these rascals caused millions of Euros damage in the town we lived in in Germany. Luckily we were between campers at the time but the damage to our Ford S-Max was pretty hideous.

 

[Billy192]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.
A friend is on his way down through France at the moment & going through the Massif Central on the A75 he had a Gearbox Oil Hot warning and lost power. He pulled over and let it cool down at then crawled to the next Aire after that it was OK.

He had problems with a warning light and the Fiat dealer found the gearbox had been underfilled, they drained it oil looked fine & refilled it to the correct level & they have a new gearbox on order.

did around 4 k around Portugal and Spain up and down some massive (to me) hills 9 speed was fine.
Billy

 

[LithiumConvert]

Does the 9 speed have an oil dip stick on the gearbox?

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[Guigsy]

Wasn't the 9 speed ZF originally put in Jeeps by Chrysler (now part of Stellantis group) - there were quite a few reported early failures that eventually were ironed out. It is a leap of faith to use the same ZF autobox in much heavier MHs.

I would prefer Fiat to develop a self-charging hybrid EV drivetrain, direct drive using a traction motor, eliminating the need for complex gearboxes.

Both Toyota and Honda have mastered this kind of technology and made it very reliable. No need for Fiat/Stellantis to reinvent the wheel.

Don't they use CVT gearboxes? They don't have a great reputation. And they aren't suitable for high torque applications.

 

[Lenny HB]

Does the 9 speed have an oil dip stick on the gearbox?

Don't think so.
A lot of the failures were due to them coming out of the factory underfilled, that was the problem with my mate's one.

 

[gus-lopez]

I would prefer Fiat to develop a self-charging hybrid EV drivetrain, direct drive using a traction motor, eliminating the need for complex gearboxes.

I don't know about others but scanias 44 tonne artic & 60>80tonne double B's use an electric motor coupled to a 6 speed autogearbox driving the rear tractor axle via propshaft.

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[L' Hobo]

Does the 9 speed have an oil dip stick on the gearbox?

Not even my 2007 X250 manual gearbox has a dip stick or level plug.
One has to drain it all and refill with slightly less than the stated capacity.
There is no way of checking levels between oil changes as far as I know?

 

[Peavy]

Wasn't the 9 speed ZF originally put in Jeeps by Chrysler

That would make sense as the engine block from the new Ducato is also the same as the Jeep?

 

[Guigsy]

That would make sense as the motor block from the new Ducato is also the same as the Jeep?

It was also in some Land Rovers. And a few other brands. ZF sold the 9 speed to a few companies.

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[SpeedyDux]

Don't they use CVT gearboxes? They don't have a great reputation. And they aren't suitable for high torque applications.

Toyota's hybrid drivetrain includes a CVT gearbox. Honda's version does not; it has one forward reduction gear and one reverse gear, plus direct drive to the ICE via a dog clutch in some situations at higher speeds.

I don't know where you got that [not] "great reputation" regarding CVT because Toyota's tried and tested CVT has a good reputation for reliability. CVT might not be to everyone's taste, because the revs can soar when you want to make progress and that results in more ICE noise. I can't comment on your high torque unsuitability point, but perhaps you can link to a source. CVTs are becoming the default car autobox, replacing torque converter conventional ones, that are now rare in city cars for example. My preference is for torque converter conventional ones for non-hybrid cars or vans. I put up with the ComfortMatic and its foibles because it was the only autobox available from Fiat when I bought mine. I am done with manual gearboxes.

 

[Guigsy]

Toyota's hybrid drivetrain includes a CVT gearbox. Honda's version does not; it has one forward reduction gear and one reverse gear, plus direct drive to the ICE via a dog clutch in some situations at higher speeds.

I don't know where you got that [not] "great reputation" regarding CVT because Toyota's tried and tested CVT has a good reputation for reliability. CVT might not be to everyone's taste, because the revs can soar when you want to make progress and that results in more ICE noise. I can't comment on your high torque unsuitability point, but perhaps you can link to a source. CVTs are becoming the default car autobox, replacing torque converter conventional ones, that are now rare in city cars for example. My preference is for torque converter conventional ones for non-hybrid cars or vans. I put up with the ComfortMatic and its foibles because it was the only autobox available from Fiat when I bought mine. I am done with manual gearboxes.

CVT boxes in Hondas and Nissans do not have a good reliability record. And they can't cope with torque because it's using surface to surface friction. It's a rubber belt over two cones.

 

[Tighchris]

My Honda Insight Hybrid CVT is just coming up to 200k miles after 14 years of ownership from new. It has not missed a beat. My favourite ever car for never having any money spent except on servicing and consumables. Did 1000 miles to Germany and back in October. I guess it will fail soon but it does not owe me anything. I hope my new EV camper is as reliable!

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[SpeedyDux]

CVT boxes in Hondas and Nissans do not have a good reliability record. And they can't cope with torque because it's using surface to surface friction. It's a rubber belt over two cones.

Scotty Kilmer does agree with you regarding Nissan autoboxes. As for rubber belts ... have a happy Christmas and enjoy your fetish!

 

[Lenny HB]

It was also in some Land Rovers. And a few other brands. ZF sold the 9 speed to a few companies.

I thought Land Rovers were RWD if so can't be the same box.

 

[Guigsy]

I thought Land Rovers were RWD if so can't be the same box.

Disco Sport and Evoque use the ZF9. Transverse 4 banger with a transfer case.

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