Don't ask a question unless you know the answer

[Kniste]

Good Morning Gents,

Thank you for all the advice. I have listened carefully and done the following. Bought a wire stripper/crimper. Cut the wire while crimping. (cheap tool). I have decided to take the advice of the traditional method, twist and sellotape (Nasher I think). Unfortunately I did not have any sellotape, but I did have some of the heat shrink stuff. When finished it was able to hold a weight of one kilo, not wishing to to have to do it again, I did not test it to destruction. Thanks again for all the advice.

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[Nasher]

View attachment 380208
Good Morning Gents,

Thank you for all the advice. I have listened carefully and done the following. Bought a wire stripper/crimper. Cut the wire while crimping. (cheap tool). I have decided to take the advice of the traditional method, twist and sellotape (Nasher I think). Unfortunately I did not have any sellotape, but I did have some of the heat shrink stuff. When finished it was able to hold a weight of one kilo, not wishing to to have to do it again, I did not test it to destruction. Thanks again for all the advice.

Kind regards,

Steve

More amateurish wiring, you're meant to strip the wire using your teeth!! ?

Job looks a good 'un

 

[TheBig1]

there is a proven method to twist wires together to make a really good electrical joint. Would take longer to describe than show you, but it is basically wrapping the bare conductor of each wire round the other. I have had to use it in an emergency when without the correct tools. When I got home it was still working so well that I left it. Was still working perfectly 10 years later. The trick though is to wrap it well with tape, first to insulate, but also to keep out oxygen and moisture

 

[bigwood]

Soldiering involves contained heat but using a mini blow torch involves a flame that burns very well. I found that when the flame bunt through my sleeve and then the carpet in the foot well. Not a good day, crimps and shrink wrap with a heat gun are safer for me.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Some would argue that crimped joints are better than soldered ones and a crimping tool does not need power.

Soldering is the best way to go for a permanent electrical joint as you have minimal resistance in the join provided you have not done a "dry joint", ie insufficient heat but melted the solder bu the wire was not hot enough to form a good low resistance bond. The way to splice a wire in in the middle of a run is to remove part of the insulation, split the strands into two then insert the new wire in the splice before you solder in place then cover the bare joint with either a sleeve, (before soldering slide in to place) or insulation tape if it not going to run hot. I agree that a meatier iron is better. I tend to use a very large 100watt job in the motorhome as it is up to any job if carried out with care. Your biggest risk is where the put the iron while heating up and when at heat while you use you two hands for some other part of the job. Burns in carpets, wood, plastic is not good, not to say accidentally stepping against it! Been there and done it!

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[Gromett]

I would not use blade or bullet connectors if the joint is intended to be permanent. I would opt for something like this

Heat Shrink Crimp Butt Connector (Red, Blue, Yellow)

Adhesive-lined heat shrink butt crimp connectors in red, blue & yellow for 0.5-6.0mm² cable. Crimp & heat to shrink the insulation and flow the adhesive.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

These are a reasonable alternative. The reason being is that they have a fixed amount of solder and incorporate strain relief.

Soldering yourself and not adding correct strain relief will result in the problems I mentioned in my previous post.


However, I do not like these connectors as it is impossible to tell if the solder connection is "good".

I will stick to good solid mechanical crimp connections and Wago connectors. (not the push fit ones though).

 

[Kniste]

My problem was quite simple. there was not enough space to put any kind of crimping join. I did not want to trace back the wires into the guts of my machine. Soo I soldered after twisting then covered the join with glued shrink thingie. Pushed it back up the tiny hole and nothing is to be seen.
Steve

 

[Gromett]

Don't solder, splice and seal with either a good quality heat shrink or hot glue gun.

Solder joint will become brittle and fail.

I disagree with him. This is a terrible approach. Unless you can ensure that there is no access to air probably by using some type of liquid sealant then it will oxidise over time. This "could" result in resistance rising and a hotspot forming. This is barely better than Nasher suggestion of twisting and cellotape.

 

[Gromett]

there is a proven method to twist wires together to make a really good electrical joint. Would take longer to describe than show you, but it is basically wrapping the bare conductor of each wire round the other. I have had to use it in an emergency when without the correct tools. When I got home it was still working so well that I left it. Was still working perfectly 10 years later. The trick though is to wrap it well with tape, first to insulate, but also to keep out oxygen and moisture

You mention the key thing here. Oxygen and moisture. If you are confident you can prevent this getting in at all, then twisting the wires together could well give you good electrical connection but physical integrity it far from guaranteed.

 

[Kniste]

Gromett:
I will stick to good solid mechanical crimp connections and Wago connectors. (not the push fit ones though).

I like the wagon connectors, unfortunately they were too clunky for my immediate purpose.

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[autorouter]

Soldering is the best way to go for a permanent electrical joint as you have minimal resistance in the join provided you have not done a "dry joint"

I agree that solder joints are very good electrically, and crimp joints have to be 100% correct to be up to the same standard of conductivity. But the important factor is the vibration environment of the joint. In a home or industrial building, vibration is not important, but in a vehicle, aircraft or within an appliance like a washing machine, vibration is a very important factor in long-term reliability.

A number of lessons have been learnt over the years. One lesson is to avoid sudden changes in stress that concentrate strain on a single point. The classic example is the square windows of the early Comet aircraft, which failed at the corners due to stress concentration causing cracks. All aircraft since that time have windows with rounded corners.

The same principle of stress concentration happens in a solder joint. The solder wicks along the wire between the strands, and stops at a definite point, which becomes a centre for the initiation of cracks.

If an engine is revving at 3000 rev/minute, that's a vibration at 50 times per second. For a journey of 6 hours that's over a million vibrations. Worse still, the speed is varying all the time, so that if there is a resonance that a wire is vulnerable to, then at some point that resonance will almost certainly happen.

Crimp joints do not have a cutoff point that is quite so definite and concentrated. They are used in all manufactured goods that are subject to vibration, including aircraft, motor vehicles and machines. Maybe you can get away with using soldered joints, if you secure the wire well, and use strain relief to minimise stress. But why do that when a crimp is more reliable? I have all kinds of solder equipment, and solder everything from copper pipes to surface mount chips. But in a vehicle I always use crimps.

 

[Pausim]

Thank you for that explanation autorouter. I have followed the advice to use crimps in vehicle applications in recent years and now I understand the importance of not soldering.

 

[The Wino]

Gromett:
I will stick to good solid mechanical crimp connections and Wago connectors. (not the push fit ones though).

I like the wagon connectors, unfortunately they were too clunky for my immediate purpose.

I used the compact wago connectors my van has wago connectors on the factory wiring. I bought a handful at the electrical wholesalers.

Wago 221 Compact Lever Splicing Connector 4.00mm - 2 Way | Wago_Connectors (221-412)

www.tlc-direct.co.uk

I didn't get them there that's just an example.

 

[the1andonly]

Not even a mention of Pb free versus leaded.

 

[Vipar]

Learnt a lot from this thread.
Glad you recommend crimping as my soldering skills are crap.
Bought this in Germany a few years ago. Never used it. Might be a life saver one day

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