Does anyone go to Spain for six months at a time

[Hilewaychile]

But what happens after the 3rd referendum as I assume if we vote to stay in on the second referendum then the government and the BBC and the rest of the media will spend 2 years saying you can't go off a referendum result as the people are not qualified to make complex decisions like staying in ?

Very droll. The flaw in your argument is that nobody would have to 'decide' anything. We're already in, so just sup up and carry on.

 

[Hilewaychile]

@jumartoo I am about to complete the registering of my 14 year old, UK registered Hymer "tramp " to Spanish plates and it will have cost me a fraction over €1000.
I appreciate that many or most will have younger vehicles and the cost will therefore be substantially more, but for me without family or ties in the UK it was a no-brainer and I believe will save me a substantial amount, instead of the annual trip back for the MOT.

Well done. I have been quoted the same sort of figure. Where did you get yours done? Mine's a PVC self-build but I have it from my man that it can be done. The trip back to UK was part of my wanderings, anyway, so the expense was not an issue.

 

[Hilewaychile]

I was thinking about someone registering a motorhome for short term, not long term like you've done.

Short term? A vehicle is either reg or not. It would make no sense at all to re-plate a vehicle unless it was legally required.

 

[welshgary]

I have a house in Spain & bring a car down from the UK each winter. Technically you can bring a vehicle into Spain for 6 months in any 12. I'm not sure if they insure motorhomes, but my cars are insured with Saga. They are the only company I could find with unlimited European use & European breakdown.

 

[Purple2]

You can until the point that we are restricted to 90 days at which point we need to apply for some form of visa which then technically makes you a resident and the six month rule is shortened for the need to register the vehicle.
As motorhomers we are now going to experience things like this for the first time because before the EU it was extremely rare for anyone to tour/stay in one place for the extended periods we are now used to. It’s fanciful to suggest that the type of travel that we do now was ‘wholesale’ 35-40 years ago. A lot of people didn’t even have a car outside their house let alone a ‘motorhome’ which essentially didn’t exist. Very, very few had the ability to give up work in their 50s and swan off to the Costas etc. It’s going to be irritating but we will have to plan it a bit better what 90 day period that we take our ‘trip down South’. Spare a thought for those that own holiday homes, in many ways it is going to be more difficult. A friend of mine has one in Portugal and ‘winters’ there and on return to UK visits his son in Germany for a couple of weeks. Clearly that can’t happen if he used all his 90 days in Portugal. He’ll have to wait another 90 before flying to Germany or shorten his winter stay!

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[Coolbeanz]

Any person staying for more than 90 days in any Schengen country is required to register in that country.

I did some research on this yesterday and once Brexit has finally happened it means that any stays exceeding 90 days will just require a visa. Sounds easy but who knows what it will finally be!!

 

[nicholsong]

I am working on a plan to get a Residency in a Schengen country.

That does not solve the limitation of 90 days in any one country, but I am sure that with no border controls there are lots of residents of Schengen countries breaching the 90 days in another country. I suspect most of them do not even know of the restriction.

Is there a central Schengen database of who is resident in each country and who changes residency? I doubt it.

As a UK passport holder there would be no restriction on one re-entering UK at any time and no time limit on one's stay.

Some countries are already assuring British Citizens that are resident that there will be no change. I expect that more countries will follow suit, on a reciprical basis. Whether they do that for temporary visitors is yet to be determined. I think they cannot negate the 90-day Schengen rule.

Geoff

 

[Tykatem]

I did some research on this yesterday and once Brexit has finally happened it means that any stays exceeding 90 days will just require a visa. Sounds easy

You reckon!

Schengen Visa Extension
Short-stay Schengen visa extensions are permitted by the regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council (EC) No. 810/2009 of 13 July 2009 establishing a Community Code on Visas (Journal of Laws of the EU of 2009 L243/1). However, you will have very low chances to get one, if you do not have a strong reason as the basis of you application.

According to the Schengen visa policy, acceptable reasons to extend a Schengen short-stay visa are only the following:

• Late Entry
• Humanitarian Reasons
• Force Majeure
• Important Personal Reasons

Need to stay more than 90 day in Europe?
If you need to remain longer in Europe, you need to apply for a National Visa at the embassy of the adequate country. A National Visa permits you to remain in Europe for a maximum of 12 months.

National Visas
The national visa of “D” category is granted to the certain individuals who are to be studying, working or permanently residing in one of the Schengen countries. The national visa can be of a single entry, granted to the people who are in need of residing in the Schengen country for a certain period of time and for a sole purpose after which they shall return to their country. On the other hand a multi-entry national visa is also granted for certain individuals, allowing its holder to travel in and out of this Schengen country as he/she pleases and also travel throughout the whole Schengen Area without additional visa requirements.

In order to obtain a multi entry national visa, one must meet the certain criteria:

• An international student program will grant a visa for a period of not more than one year.
• An international student that is about to start a full course of studies in one of the Schengen countries. Again the visa is issued for a period of one year with the possibility of extending it.
• A pedagogical work at a higher institution or research center in any of the Schengen countries, regarding the person and its close family members.
• A professional who is traveling in any of the Schengen countries due to its expertise be it a sportsman, an artist or any other professional of its kind with the purpose of sharing its expertise.
• Emergency cases as a medical condition that prevents the individual leave the Schengen Area at the designated time frame.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/

Pete

 

[Coolbeanz]

You reckon!

Schengen Visa Extension
Short-stay Schengen visa extensions are permitted by the regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council (EC) No. 810/2009 of 13 July 2009 establishing a Community Code on Visas (Journal of Laws of the EU of 2009 L243/1). However, you will have very low chances to get one, if you do not have a strong reason as the basis of you application.

According to the Schengen visa policy, acceptable reasons to extend a Schengen short-stay visa are only the following:

• Late Entry
• Humanitarian Reasons
• Force Majeure
• Important Personal Reasons

Need to stay more than 90 day in Europe?
If you need to remain longer in Europe, you need to apply for a National Visa at the embassy of the adequate country. A National Visa permits you to remain in Europe for a maximum of 12 months.

National Visas
The national visa of “D” category is granted to the certain individuals who are to be studying, working or permanently residing in one of the Schengen countries. The national visa can be of a single entry, granted to the people who are in need of residing in the Schengen country for a certain period of time and for a sole purpose after which they shall return to their country. On the other hand a multi-entry national visa is also granted for certain individuals, allowing its holder to travel in and out of this Schengen country as he/she pleases and also travel throughout the whole Schengen Area without additional visa requirements.

In order to obtain a multi entry national visa, one must meet the certain criteria:

• An international student program will grant a visa for a period of not more than one year.
• An international student that is about to start a full course of studies in one of the Schengen countries. Again the visa is issued for a period of one year with the possibility of extending it.
• A pedagogical work at a higher institution or research center in any of the Schengen countries, regarding the person and its close family members.
• A professional who is traveling in any of the Schengen countries due to its expertise be it a sportsman, an artist or any other professional of its kind with the purpose of sharing its expertise.
• Emergency cases as a medical condition that prevents the individual leave the Schengen Area at the designated time frame.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/

Pete

Well I think it definitely fits humanitarian reasons having to suffer a winter in the UK

 

[Hilewaychile]

I am working on a plan to get a Residency in a Schengen country.

That does not solve the limitation of 90 days in any one country, but I am sure that with no border controls there are lots of residents of Schengen countries breaching the 90 days in another country. I suspect most of them do not even know of the restriction.

Is there a central Schengen database of who is resident in each country and who changes residency? I doubt it.

As a UK passport holder there would be no restriction on one re-entering UK at any time and no time limit on one's stay.

Some countries are already assuring British Citizens that are resident that there will be no change. I expect that more countries will follow suit, on a reciprical basis. Whether they do that for temporary visitors is yet to be determined. I think they cannot negate the 90-day Schengen rule.

Geoff

The problem is the plates on your vehicle. If you register as a res of a Schengen country, you can't drive a vehicle with your 'original' country's plates. It's illegal to the point where your vehicle could be confiscated. Short of that, I understand the fine is huge.

This applies to europeans moving to UK just as much as Brits to Spain, for example. The result of that is, if you obey the rules, you will be a Schegen zone resident and your vehicle will have plates of a Schengen country. Therefore you will be visible to UK Plod and your time will be limited to 90 days, just like a native Spaniard or Italian etc.

The implications are manifold. Most importantly, insurance would almost certainly be invalid if there is difference between the country you are registered as resident and the plates on your vehicle.

This is why, having registered as resident in Spain and changed my driving licence to a Spanish one [if it ever turns up] I must tick the final box and register my camper onto SP plates. With the full set, I will be able to take out a SP insurnce policy. With that, good to go, all over Schengen as long as I don't stay in any one country in XS of 90 days.

Once you register as resident ex-UK, you cannot legally avoid the process I have described.

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[Val 3 dogs]

Well done. I have been quoted the same sort of figure. Where did you get yours done? Mine's a PVC self-build but I have it from my man that it can be done. The trip back to UK was part of my wanderings, anyway, so the expense was not an issue.

The certificate of compiance and required minor modifications were done in the Morelade area with me being required to attend in Granada to get everything officially stamped.
It has been a comparatively simple procedure, though my vehicle being a Hymer, my habitation door already opened to the right. I'm told a left side opening door will not be considered, I'm also told that any modifications to original factory production will not be considered.
I don't know, I guess you can only suck it and see. Good luck.

 

[jumartoo]

Luckily we bought our motorhome already transferred onto Spanish plates. The fee (according the paperwork we received) was around €4000 (don't know how much of that was charged for doing the job)!

 

[Hilewaychile]

The certificate of compiance and required minor modifications were done in the Morelade area with me being required to attend in Granada to get everything officially stamped.
It has been a comparatively simple procedure, though my vehicle being a Hymer, my habitation door already opened to the right. I'm told a left side opening door will not be considered, I'm also told that any modifications to original factory production will not be considered.
I don't know, I guess you can only suck it and see. Good luck.

I did run those points past my man but he insisted that it was all going to be OK. I will have to cruise down there and have a run-thru'. The only thing I can think is that in Spain they make it up as they go long and every office of any kind has a different set of rules to the office in the next town. Hopefully, my man has it sorted with his man in the local IVA workshop.

If it's not poss, I'm stuck with a van I can't use

 

[ChrisL]

A professional who is traveling in any of the Schengen countries due to its expertise be it a sportsman, an artist or any other professional of its kind with the purpose of sharing its expertise.

I wonder what constitutes being an artist? do you think I could persuade them that my saxophonist skills are such that they ought to give me a visa, or failing that i reckon i could knock up a good Jackson Pollack

 

[Purple2]

Look up non lucrative visa.

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[gus-lopez]

My point about ‘importing’ is not a huge problem legally it’s just that when you return to Spain, being a non lucrative visa holder means you then have to register it

I don't think that applies to non EU. They just come under the 6 month in any 12 rule & to stay vehicle requires to be sealed.

You can until the point that we are restricted to 90 days at which point we need to apply for some form of visa which then technically makes you a resident and the six month rule is shortened for the need to register the vehicle.

The 90 , consecutive, days only applies to EU citizens using schengen/eu rules.It doesn't apply to non-eu who as above are under the 6/12 rules

Therefore you will be visible to UK Plod and your time will be limited to 90 days, just like a native Spaniard or Italian etc.

That wouldn't apply to him or me as regardless of residency in another EU state we are British citizens with the right to remain, subject to time period requiring residency, indefinitely.
Minimum is 6 months in the UK & for some peculiar reason it is also for current EU citizens.
Only other thing would be the time period for replatng the vehicle which was stated by border officers at Dover to be 6 months for the vehicle.

With the full set, I will be able to take out a SP insurnce policy.

You could do that anyway .There is no requirement to be a resident to insure a spanish vehicle that you own.

The fee (according the paperwork we received) was around €4000 (don't know how much of that was charged for doing the job)!

being reasonably new I would have thought that 90% was probably tax.

If it's not poss, I'm stuck with a van I can't use

If it is rhd & based on what the spanish class as a 'commercial vehicle' it is unlikely.The law is that they refuse to re-register rhd commercial vehicles on safety grounds due to 'poor visibility'
Having seen & helped people attempting to re-register purpose built campers based on commercial rhd vehicles ,& seen them turned down flat by Madrid in the ITv stations it isn't possible here.
Having said that you will come across myriads of rhd spanish registered campers based on commercials & also actual commercials themselves in one case I've seen a Luton??
All of these have been re-registered in Alicante. I've even asked the question about them to our gestoria & his answer was "it is all ok until the injury/death accident occurs & then the judge will remove the vehicle registration as having been illegally/incorrectly re-registered" .In a case like that when it occurs ,even if you were blameless, the whole blame will then transfer to you.

 

[Hilewaychile]

I wonder what constitutes being an artist? do you think I could persuade them that my saxophonist skills are such that they ought to give me a visa, or failing that i reckon i could knock up a good Jackson Pollack

Sorry. I've got in ahead of you with the Jackson Pollack

 

[Hilewaychile]

All of these have been re-registered in Alicante. I've even asked the question about them to our gestoria & his answer was "it is all ok until the injury/death accident occurs & then the judge will remove the vehicle registration as having been illegally/incorrectly re-registered" .In a case like that when it occurs ,even if you were blameless, the whole blame will then transfer to you.[/QUOTE]

Informative, as usual Gus. Thanks

The point arises, re 'illegal registration', as to who committed the offence? If someone has paperwork etc, stamped and signed off by a office of a government department and the individual has complied in every respect with the requirements of that office, for it to be declared illegal is to retrospectively rewrite the law.

And if any blame is to be attached, it should be to the office which provided the service under terms that did not comply. And comply with what? Where? It is the case in so many instances that Spanish law and regulations differ from place to place. Madrid has it one way, Alicante another.

And it may depend on where the incident occurred as to what view is taken. If in the region where registration took place it would be a remarkable volte-face to then declare the registration illegal. One gov department would be criminalising another. Logically, the prosecuting authority would be obliged to look back at all the other RHD registrations and declare those all illegal, as well.

I do realise that, as they say "Spain is different". One of the differences that makes for difficulties for everybody and a great deal of frustration to people such as Brits, whose governanace is not so ad hoc, is that consistency in the law is not a Spanish attribute.

 

[Yorick]

I was told flatly that a RHD PVC would not get in the to blind spots. And chuck in leccy, gas and water and not a chance.

 

[xtab]

if so what do we need . As we are thinking of going for six months John

Just nipping back to the original question for a minute, there are some food items we've struggled to find, so we take extra:
Bisto gravy
Tomato Puree
Oxo cubes
Packet Instant Noodles
Favourite brand of Tea Bags

Not impossible to find, and I'm sure others will know of places but we didn't find them generally or obviously available.

(And no, we're not " We only eat British foods" kind of people. We love lots of Spanish food. But it's nice to have some staples handy too)

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[Yorick]

Just nipping back to the original question for a minute, there are some food items we've struggled to find, so we take extra:
Bisto gravy
Tomato Puree
Oxo cubes
Packet Instant Noodles
Favourite brand of Tea Bags

Not impossible to find, and I'm sure others will know of places but we didn't find them generally or obviously available.

(And no, we're not " We only eat British foods" kind of people. We love lots of Spanish food. But it's nice to have some staples handy too)

We have a Brit shop here combining Waitrose and Iceland. Can get most of what we want

 

[PeterdeMaserof]

I live in Spain. Come and enjoy it. The authorities have important things to enforce and take no interest in mainly old f..ts spending their money in their country

 

[OZeRV]

Seems that an awful lot of people want to have their cake and eat it. You can't have Brexit and expect to carry on enjoying unlimited access if you're not a member of the club.

I'm not sure if good old Nige or Boris, or any of their mates, have felt it wise to mention it but Deal or No-Deal, when the UK leaves the EU, Brits will no longer have any of the advantages of being an EU Citizen. Advantages that we've been largely oblivious to in recent years, whether it's taking extended motorhome travels through Europe, stopping as long as you wish in whatever country takes your fancy, or giving your children the opportunity to easily find employment or education opportunities, or just something as simple as sending or receiving gifts from family or friends across the water.

Mikebeaches post here will be irrelevant - it applies to EU citizens - and once we're out, we're out, so we'll be treated as Third Country Nationals, with considerably greater restrictions than we enjoy now.



I won't quote it chapter and verse but here's what you have to look forward to:

You won't be able to use the EU channels at ports and airports; you'll be subject to additional checks such as providing information on the duration and purpose of your stay, as well as your means of subsistence during your stay; your passport will need at least 6 months validity upon entry; your passport will be stamped on entry and exit so the 90-day period can be verified. Rather different from just driving onto a ferry or the tunnel as at present, eh?

Your luggage, goods and vehicles will be subject to customs checks. There will be restrictions on bringing large amounts of cash, food products (such as meat, milk, cheese etc), plants, plant products or certain animals. Filling the fridge/freezer with Cheddar and all those other goodies you can't live without won't be an option.

Healthcare - no more EHIC. You'll have no alternative but to take out private medical insurance.

Driving licences - almost certainly need one or more IDPs.

Pets - much more restrictive, more planning and expense as has been discussed in other threads here.

Phone roaming - you'll be at the mercy of your provider as to whether they continue roaming or not.

If you want the full details, the link is here, first download.


I'm not sure all this is a price worth paying, to be honest, particularly if you're relying on the current crop of incompetents at the helm to take the UK into a brave new world and make a success of it.....

I'm the bloke in the UK registered motorhome that holds you up at ferry passport control points. My Aussie passport is date stamped on entry to Schengen port and date stamped on exit from Schengen port. Of course even more time is spent at UK Border Control point. This all takes time and may require explanation. Simple 90 day rule applies to be in Schengen Area and then have to remain out of Schengen Area for another 90 days. I am going back into Schengen Area next week with return ferry to UK booked for 88 days down the track. I would like to stay longer in Schengen Area but cannot!

 

[jumartoo]

I'm the bloke in the UK registered motorhome that holds you up at ferry passport control points. My Aussie passport is date stamped on entry to Schengen port and date stamped on exit from Schengen port. Of course even more time is spent at UK Border Control point. This all takes time and may require explanation. Simple 90 day rule applies to be in Schengen Area and then have to remain out of Schengen Area for another 90 days. I am going back into Schengen Area next week with return ferry to UK booked for 88 days down the track. I would like to stay longer in Schengen Area but cannot!

Thank you. Simple and concise explanation.

 

[spitfire]

If you are a UK State Pensioner you are covered by the UK NHS - hospital treatment, GPs et al, as of April 2015.

UK state pensioners who live elsewhere in the EEA will now have the same rights to NHS care as people who live in England. This applies to all pensioners who receive a UK state retirement pension and are registered for health care in Europe with an S1 form.

This ruling is, at the moment, going to continue post-Brexit. The Spanish, for example, have already offered to continue the present full entitlement to the SP NHS as long as UK reciprocates.

It is logical. Treatment in the country where one is registered as resident - say Spain - is as per a Spanish citizen, if one has applied via the magic S1 form, but the bill for the treatment is remitted to the UK NHS, which reimburses the Spanish NHS. As the UK NHS pays for the treatment of UK citizens in EEA, it was considered logical that the UK NHS would treat those people if they happened to be in UK.

Joined-up thinking, for once.

In France it is a little different . Under the agreement you are only entitled to the same as a citizen of the said country and in the case of France that is 70% so they bill the UK 70% ( cheaper for the U.K. than us living in there ! ) We pay an insurance as do the French to cover the other 30% . In Spain citizens get 100% cover so U.K. resident get the same . Not sure about the other European countries cover .

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[Hilewaychile]

Just nipping back to the original question for a minute, there are some food items we've struggled to find, so we take extra:
Bisto gravy
Tomato Puree
Oxo cubes
Packet Instant Noodles
Favourite brand of Tea Bags

Not impossible to find, and I'm sure others will know of places but we didn't find them generally or obviously available.

(And no, we're not " We only eat British foods" kind of people. We love lots of Spanish food. But it's nice to have some staples handy too)

I was surprised at my local s/mkt not stocking tom purée and none of the 'deli' type stalls in the wonderful Mercado Central [Valencia] - except one, specialising in Italian foods.
Oxo cubes = beef stock cubes. Not a problem in my local s/mkt. Special offer included a potato peeler... I used one on Sunday night for the stock to cook the rice for 'arroz al horno' and it was very tasty. It's a great meal. The s/mkt sells the meat ingrediants as a 'kit' - all in one pack. The charming and historic town of Xátiva holds a fiesta for 'arroz al horno'.
I stocked up with 'Jewish penicillin' - dried chicken noodle soup - after I used up my UK-bought Knorr packets, following a bout of Montezuma's Revenge. Local s/mkt
Tea bags - yes. Only one's faves will do.

But a big superstore type s/mkt like Carrefour should have all those things and maybe even a selection of Brit tea. Tea is becoming more popular here with the locals.

Apart from bacon, the only thing I would want anyone to bring from UK is Demerera sugar. If you like 'brown' sugar in coffee or anything, the Spanish stuff is awful - looks like, feels like, tastes like brick dust.

 

[Quick Quick]

Thanks DBK.
International Driving Permit? Got mine from the PO, and was surprised to know that Spain requires a separate one from the rest of the EU.
Insurance purposes, 90 day rule applies, but DBK summed it all up perfectly.
Never been quizzed by French Customs, didn't want to wake him.
Did anybody mention gas bottle connectors?
Bon Voyage BONZO

 

[Hilewaychile]

Just nipping back to the original question for a minute, there are some food items we've struggled to find, so we take extra:
Bisto gravy
Tomato Puree
Oxo cubes
Packet Instant Noodles
Favourite brand of Tea Bags

Not impossible to find, and I'm sure others will know of places but we didn't find them generally or obviously available.

(And no, we're not " We only eat British foods" kind of people. We love lots of Spanish food. But it's nice to have some staples handy too)

Having browsed my recipes folder, the other thing I'd have shipped in/bring with me is Parmesan cheese. If you like your pasta dishes, Parmesan in Spain is expensive. The cheapest I've seen is 18€/kg, most is +/- 24€/kg. It may be a better quality - more aged - than UK £13/kg from Tescbury but it's Parmigiano Reggiano and that's good enough for me.

 

[BILL 875]

Oh dear, i need a handful of paracetamols and i didnt get to the end of the thread.
Bill