Dodgy MH Dealership (any legals out there please?)

[82125]

O.k so the place I bought my MH from less than 10 days ago sent me away in a vehicle that was in an illegal condition for the road and potentially dangerous.

In addition they've apparently done zero checks/work during the 3 weeks they made me wait to collect it (like the promised MOT, hab check, gas safety, service, valet e.t.c). Theyve obviously just ticked the boxes on the pre-purchase inspection sheet without even being in the vehicle. They have for sure knowingly not fixed things the previous private owner told them it needed when they bought it from him (ive had numerous conversations with the previous private owner as id tried to buy it from him in the first place before this MH dealership beat me to it). The Oyster dish needs a new £900 main board and doesnt even move (yet its also ticked off as working).
The list of faults, that should all of been spotted, (if theyd actually done any checks) and rectified before selling the vehicle is long and will probably cost around £3000. Given they stuck £14,000 on top of the price they actually paid for the MH from the private seller, I think they are more taking the mickey. Ironically they refused to move on their asking price too because they reeled off that they had to take in to account the cost of servicing, pre-purchase checks, mot, warranty costs e.t.c. (non of which theyve even done).

They make all the right "noises", in terms of promising to order me this and that, have someone fix things, get it MOT'd, send me the so far non-extent warranty paperwork e.t.c. but I am almost entirely certain they're just trying to keep the clock ticking to delay until my right to return it for a full refund within 30 days expires.

Its all extremely polite at the moment, and I'd like to keep it that way for now for the SLIM chance they might actually honour something or fix something.

Its a fantastic van, I have no desire to return it. All the faults are just things that any dealer with a conscience would easily and quickly put right. But having already paid £14k over the odds its a bit much to have to spend another £3k+ to put everything right myself.

This is a large, well presented MH business and not some small back street garage. They actually sell a number of MH brands from new (who I assume would be interested to hear how this seller conducts themselves representing their brand name?)

So far ive kept all conversations about my issues with the MH documented via email, (which when i asked one of their agents for they said they dont give out?! A business that doesnt give out its email address? Probably to ensure there's no written record of complaints I assume).
I've listed all the faults and taken photos of the most serious ones (mainly the tyres which are all over 10 years old, cracked sidewalls and not one of them had anywhere near enough air in. One had 20psi when i checked it the next day! N/S main and dip HID bulb is also blown and was black taped in place).

Before i end up reporting them to trading standards? What are my best options please? I just want them to honour their warranty and legal obligation so I can get on with enjoying my MH.
The dealership is 300 miles away and its unsafe and illegal to drive it back to them currently. They knew I was driving it 300 miles back to Scotland once I'd collected it and still sent me off with it in this condition. They couldnt even be bothered to top the coolant up, which was 2" below the minimum and the screenwash was completely empty too.
So far, out of the £14k mark up they put on this MH, their only outlay has been to spray blackner on the tyres and silicon on the dash to make them look shiny.

Thanks.
(and yes, I'm up at 3am because i cant sleep worrying about it!)

 

[TDub49]

O.k so the place I bought my MH from less than 10 days ago sent me away in a vehicle that was in an illegal condition for the road and potentially dangerous.

In addition they've apparently done zero checks/work during the 3 weeks they made me wait to collect it (like the promised MOT, hab check, gas safety, service, valet e.t.c). Theyve obviously just ticked the boxes on the pre-purchase inspection sheet without even being in the vehicle. They have for sure knowingly not fixed things the previous private owner told them it needed when they bought it from him (ive had numerous conversations with the previous private owner as id tried to buy it from him in the first place before this MH dealership beat me to it). The Oyster dish needs a new £900 main board and doesnt even move (yet its also ticked off as working).
The list of faults, that should all of been spotted, (if theyd actually done any checks) and rectified before selling the vehicle is long and will probably cost around £3000. Given they stuck £14,000 on top of the price they actually paid for the MH from the private seller, I think they are more taking the mickey. Ironically they refused to move on their asking price too because they reeled off that they had to take in to account the cost of servicing, pre-purchase checks, mot, warranty costs e.t.c. (non of which theyve even done).

They make all the right "noises", in terms of promising to order me this and that, have someone fix things, get it MOT'd, send me the so far non-extent warranty paperwork e.t.c. but I am almost entirely certain they're just trying to keep the clock ticking to delay until my right to return it for a full refund within 30 days expires.

Its all extremely polite at the moment, and I'd like to keep it that way for now for the SLIM chance they might actually honour something or fix something.

Its a fantastic van, I have no desire to return it. All the faults are just things that any dealer with a conscience would easily and quickly put right. But having already paid £14k over the odds its a bit much to have to spend another £3k+ to put everything right myself.

This is a large, well presented MH business and not some small back street garage. They actually sell a number of MH brands from new (who I assume would be interested to hear how this seller conducts themselves representing their brand name?)

So far ive kept all conversations about my issues with the MH documented via email, (which when i asked one of their agents for they said they dont give out?! A business that doesnt give out its email address? Probably to ensure there's no written record of complaints I assume).
I've listed all the faults and taken photos of the most serious ones (mainly the tyres which are all over 10 years old, cracked sidewalls and not one of them had anywhere near enough air in. One had 20psi when i checked it the next day! N/S main and dip HID bulb is also blown and was black taped in place).

Before i end up reporting them to trading standards? What are my best options please? I just want them to honour their warranty and legal obligation so I can get on with enjoying my MH.
The dealership is 300 miles away and its unsafe and illegal to drive it back to them currently. They knew I was driving it 300 miles back to Scotland once I'd collected it and still sent me off with it in this condition. They couldnt even be bothered to top the coolant up, which was 2" below the minimum and the screenwash was completely empty too.
So far, out of the £14k mark up they put on this MH, their only outlay has been to spray blackner on the tyres and silicon on the dash to make them look shiny.

Thanks.
(and yes, I'm up at 3am because i cant sleep worrying about it!)

Just return it. It's clearly not fit for purpose.

 

[Minxy]

I had to buy a van quickly, i tried to buy it when it was listed privately for sale but wasnt beaten to it.
I really dont advice on coulda should woulda guys. As I say the circumstances behind them are unknown to you.

If its not related to my original question I'm really not interested thank you all the same though.

Unfortunately you appear to have 'trapped' yourself in a situation where you need a MH and left yourself with little choice, this is never a good scenario but I realise needs must sometimes.

Ask yourself this ... if you hadn't known what it was bought in for and the dealer refused to fix anything so it was sold 'as seen' would you still have bought it at the price?

 

[M-J]

I’d return it with a list of the issues and a deadline to get them resolved, get them to sign something that extends the rejection period to whatever the deadline is.

 

[82125]

If I had bought a van that far from home I think I would have stayed local to the dealer for a night or two just to make sure everything was as it should be.

yes thats what i wanted to do, but i couldnt take my 2 large dogs on the 8hr train journey and there was no one to look after them. There are circumstances behind why i had to do it the way i did.

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[chaser]

I’d return it with a list of the issues and a deadline to get them resolved, get them to sign something that extends the rejection period to whatever the deadline is.

He doesn't want advice after the fact, but what proof has he got that gas checks and things havnt been done, all in all the only things he comes up with that affect anything is the tyres which on a ten year old van you would expect want changing anyway, did they say they were going to change them? Not from what he says, and as Jim says a satilite dish isn't worth a lot anyway, no it really boils down to , he thinks they have done him on the price, but he even knew that before buying.
So can't see he has a leg to stand on

 

[82125]

Firstly try to stop fretting, its annoying when something like this happens but it certainly isn't worth causing yourself stress over ... trust me, been there, got numerous t-shirts. Now for my thoughts ... not intended to offend etc but just trying to understand the full picture.

I think, reading between the lines, the real issue is that you are smarting having paid £14,000 more than you could've bought it for from the private seller in the same condition it is now (albeit it should have a warranty). Obviously you and the previous owner are the only ones who know the reason for that, if you made offers lower than the dealer then maybe the seller wanted, or needed, to get shot of it at the time. The prices of MHs have gone up a lot this year due to high demand and low stock so a lot of the price difference may be down to if they have had it sitting around a long time since the bought it, only you know that, however there's nothing wrong with them charging the 'market price' for it, they didn't make you buy it but I know it can be difficult sometimes if you want it badly and there's not really an alternative.

If we buy from a distance we always get the dealer to agree to us getting smaller stuff sorted locally which they'll pay for, either sending replacement parts for me to swap out or getting a local company to do it, have you asked them? I wouldn't go down the 'legal' route just yet as I think all you'll get is a lot of hassle with no gain as you need to give them time to sort issues, 10 days seems more like 2 months to you, but to them its a few minutes.

spot on yes. and yes theyre verbally agreed to get things fixed locally should anything need doing. Its taken them a week to book an MOT so far though. Ill just get it sorted myself.

 

[82125]

Ok then, if you want it that way, get on to your lawyer, spend another 3 grand,, you will get your dealers back up and will still end up with the van and they won't be willing to put it right, so is that what you want to hear?

see previous.

 

[82125]

Unfortunately you appear to have 'trapped' yourself in a situation where you need a MH and left yourself with little choice, this is never a good scenario but I realise needs must sometimes.

Ask yourself this ... if you hadn't known what it was bought in for and the dealer refused to fix anything so it was sold 'as seen' would you still have bought it at the price?

definitely yes. I only state the purchase price and profit because its clear the dealer has more than enough to cover the fixes required and still bank over £10k profit. (and because he refused to negotiate price because he would have outlays for everything he has not even done).

 

[Minxy]

spot on yes. and yes theyre verbally agreed to get things fixed locally should anything need doing. Its taken them a week to book an MOT so far though. Ill just get it sorted myself.

If you have it in writing that they will pay for the work to be done then why not do that, you'll have the hassle of sorting it out but at least then you can ensure it is done to your satisfaction by a local reputable company. Just ensure that the dealer knows the cost and agrees to it before its done so they can't say its OTT and give you the run around.

definitely yes. I only state the purchase price and profit because its clear the dealer has more than enough to cover the fixes required and still bank over £10k profit. (and because he refused to negotiate price because he would have outlays for everything he has not even done).

Its annoying as hell when someone doesn't do as promised, regardless of the 'worth' of the item, I totally understand that, just get it sorted and enjoy it ...

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[Coolcats]

O.k so the place I bought my MH from less than 10 days ago sent me away in a vehicle that was in an illegal condition for the road and potentially dangerous.

In addition they've apparently done zero checks/work during the 3 weeks they made me wait to collect it (like the promised MOT, hab check, gas safety, service, valet e.t.c). Theyve obviously just ticked the boxes on the pre-purchase inspection sheet without even being in the vehicle. They have for sure knowingly not fixed things the previous private owner told them it needed when they bought it from him (ive had numerous conversations with the previous private owner as id tried to buy it from him in the first place before this MH dealership beat me to it). The Oyster dish needs a new £900 main board and doesnt even move (yet its also ticked off as working).
The list of faults, that should all of been spotted, (if theyd actually done any checks) and rectified before selling the vehicle is long and will probably cost around £3000. Given they stuck £14,000 on top of the price they actually paid for the MH from the private seller, I think they are more taking the mickey. Ironically they refused to move on their asking price too because they reeled off that they had to take in to account the cost of servicing, pre-purchase checks, mot, warranty costs e.t.c. (non of which theyve even done).

They make all the right "noises", in terms of promising to order me this and that, have someone fix things, get it MOT'd, send me the so far non-extent warranty paperwork e.t.c. but I am almost entirely certain they're just trying to keep the clock ticking to delay until my right to return it for a full refund within 30 days expires.

Its all extremely polite at the moment, and I'd like to keep it that way for now for the SLIM chance they might actually honour something or fix something.

Its a fantastic van, I have no desire to return it. All the faults are just things that any dealer with a conscience would easily and quickly put right. But having already paid £14k over the odds its a bit much to have to spend another £3k+ to put everything right myself.

This is a large, well presented MH business and not some small back street garage. They actually sell a number of MH brands from new (who I assume would be interested to hear how this seller conducts themselves representing their brand name?)

So far ive kept all conversations about my issues with the MH documented via email, (which when i asked one of their agents for they said they dont give out?! A business that doesnt give out its email address? Probably to ensure there's no written record of complaints I assume).
I've listed all the faults and taken photos of the most serious ones (mainly the tyres which are all over 10 years old, cracked sidewalls and not one of them had anywhere near enough air in. One had 20psi when i checked it the next day! N/S main and dip HID bulb is also blown and was black taped in place).

Before i end up reporting them to trading standards? What are my best options please? I just want them to honour their warranty and legal obligation so I can get on with enjoying my MH.
The dealership is 300 miles away and its unsafe and illegal to drive it back to them currently. They knew I was driving it 300 miles back to Scotland once I'd collected it and still sent me off with it in this condition. They couldnt even be bothered to top the coolant up, which was 2" below the minimum and the screenwash was completely empty too.
So far, out of the £14k mark up they put on this MH, their only outlay has been to spray blackner on the tyres and silicon on the dash to make them look shiny.

Thanks.
(and yes, I'm up at 3am because i cant sleep worrying about it!)

Really sorry to hear you are having issues, and can see varying responses and totally understand why you are loosing sleep. you may find you have legal services advice cover on your insurances, so for example do you have an RAC policy with access to their legal advice line or maybe your car or house policy. The advice lines will not fix the issue but normally give excellent guidance on what your rights are and how you may wish to proceed, we had a VW T5 converted a few years back, the snagging list was as long as your arm we were just over 2 years in and the bumpers started peeling paint for a 2nd time and the dealer did not want to know so I used the sale of goods act where goods need to be fit for purpose and of satisfactory condition.

Here is the AA's take on 2nd hand vehicles

Here is an article on Confused. com

Hopefully you get a satisfactory resolution

 

[Googlebot]

Having been in the situation myself, you might win, but then you might lose and in the meantime the stress it causes just goes on and on.

Suck it up. argue and see what they will pay for, eventually it will be cheaper and less hassle to just get it done and go and enjoy it.

I nearly paid 3k for a new fridge myself after Travelworld failed to fix it for the 5th time under warranty and they are only 45 minutes away. Thankfully it was 6th time lucky.

It sucks but hurts less if you’re enjoying using it instead of arguing.

 

[eddie]

Now, I know that I am in the trade and will be tarred with sticking up for the dealer, which I am not, just for those that read and don't actually take in what they have read when it contradicts their original position, I am not sticking up for poor service.

Going down the legal route is a nightmare! Lets be frank, the OP really wanted this van, to such an extent that he was happy to pay £14K more than when he first decided to buy it, so lets look at the best outcome he could hope to achieve?

He gets his money back and has no van, a van that he was prepared to pay £14K more for as he liked that particular van!

So that is a negative outcome!

So he starts legal proceedings and the litigation becomes protracted, in the interim the camper can't be used (you can hardly claim that a camper is unsafe to drive, ergo, not fit for purpose if you happily galivanting around in it during the litigation period)

The dealership will not loose sleep over the protracted litigation, their Solicitors will be handling it, and the only time it will cross anyone's mind will be when the dealerships Solicitors call's them to clarify something.

The OP will undoubtedly loose sleep over the situation, having spent a lot of money buying a camper that he likes, paying more for it as it suits him down to the ground, and now is paying a Solicitor to effectively hand back, get rid off, dump back at the dealer, the motorhome that was his pride and joy when he drove it from the dealer, and this pain will be vivid and real, every time he looks out of a window at it, or walks past it!

I have experience with this, as in addition to loving campers, my wife and I love boats, and we have been lucky enough to have had several nice boats, ranging from tiddlers about 24' up to bigger one's 44' We have never commissioned a boat, and taken delivery of it with everything right, but try to be philosophical and sort it. Luckily because of my job, I can fix most things or employ people that can (Boats and Motorhomes enjoy a lot of duality, in Webasto heating, Air Con, MasterVolt, etc)

The only time we went down the legal route, it was a clear open and shut case, and it was the most intensely, frustrating three months of my life, an itch I couldn't scratch, with this horrible re-occurring thought, that the only way to feel better was to jump in the car and drive to QB Marine on the Hamble and beat the shit out of the guy ran the place.

The reality was that a £50K (this was in 2005) Marlin RIB when it slammed in a confused sea, cracked! All superstructure admittedly, but still a nasty horrible unsightly crack in a three week old luxury brand RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat)

After being intensely frustrated how useless and powerless Trading Standards are, and listening to the advice of our Solicitor, who is has been our Solicitor for years and is a close friend the advice was fix, repair and move on, and this mantra was repeated time and time again.

In the end, after wasting more money, it was established that QB were skint, hadn't a pot to piss in (like most boat brokerages) which is why they were vigorously refusing a refund, they simply couldn't afford to take the boat back, and once I realised that I didn't actually "want" them to take our boat back, we started talking and once the threat of bankruptcy and winding up threats were removed from the table, QB became quite co-operative and involved Marlin, who knew of the problem and it was a design fault, and Marlin sent over two engineers from Italy, they hired a local boat builders workshop on the Hamble and removed the faulty parts of the superstructure, replaced them with the "new" stainless steel re-enforced parts, and the boat was back on the marina ready to play with within a week of them starting the repair

The point was that the dark thoughts of murder and dark alleys, dissipated the day that I found out that I couldn't get a refund as QB had no money, if I shut them down (which I suggested to my Solicitor I wanted done on "principle") I wouldn't have got my RIB repaired so we had to talk, which as soon as we'd had that "Lets resolve this" conversation I started to feel optimistic and look forward to being able to play with the RIB which is why we'd ordered it in the first place!

Also, just a heads up, although I hope that we (Van Bitz) have a good reputation, people are unhappy with us from time to time, a situation that if legitimate we will bend over backwards to resolve, unless the email, letter or call starts with "I know my rights and I am going to sue you"

Our stock response to that is "OK if we are entering into litigation, we will do or say nothing further in case we prejudice ourselves, bye"

Whereas If someone call's and say's "I don't know if you can help me, but I have a problem with "XYZ" and wonder I I can chat to someone about it" our response is "OK How can we help and what do we need to do to make this right"

Luckily the answer for us is "No, we didn't remove your exhaust when we fitted the Air Con, so don't know why its now rattling four months after we did the job"

Sometimes you have to think what the long term, best result for a situation will be, before you shout loudly

 

[Norfolk Nige]

Make a list of what the dealer should put right and give them a reasonable deadline. Don’t threaten them with forums or facebook that will just solidify positions and you’ll both lose.

Forget about the sat dish get it removed it’s worthless, it will free up payload. Hardly anyone bothers with a dish these days.

Forget what deal they did with their buyer, it has nothing to do with you. You were happy to deal at the price you paid, that is all that matters. You cannot reject, just because you discover the dealer made a good profit.

Don't cut your nose to spite your face. protracted wranglings will ruin your life, make the best deal you can, then live with it. Get the vehicle safe and get out and and enjoy it.

Very sound and sensible advice Jim.
most good businesses depend on recommendation and word of mouth to thrive, even in the virtual age via sites like Trust Pilot. In reality it’s not that there are faults, it’s how they deal with those faults which is where their reputation stands or falls.
list all the faults, with photo evidence, and give a timescale for them to be rectified under warranty. If, give the chance, they fail to you will be quite at liberty to point this out and name them. I would advise against litigation, the only winners her are lawyers at £350 perhaps plus. You would be far better off spending that money sorting things yourself and getting on with enjoying your van. Which after all is what you bought it for.

 

[Hirsch]

Now, I know that I am in the trade and will be tarred with sticking up for the dealer, which I am not, just for those that read and don't actually take in what they have read when it contradicts their original position, I am not sticking up for poor service.

Going down the legal route is a nightmare! Lets be frank, the OP really wanted this van, to such an extent that he was happy to pay £14K more than when he first decided to buy it, so lets look at the best outcome he could hope to achieve?

He gets his money back and has no van, a van that he was prepared to pay £14K more for as he liked that particular van!

So that is a negative outcome!

So he starts legal proceedings and the litigation becomes protracted, in the interim the camper can't be used (you can hardly claim that a camper is unsafe to drive, ergo, not fit for purpose if you happily galivanting around in it during the litigation period)

The dealership will not loose sleep over the protracted litigation, their Solicitors will be handling it, and the only time it will cross anyone's mind will be when the dealerships Solicitors call's them to clarify something.

The OP will undoubtedly loose sleep over the situation, having spent a lot of money buying a camper that he likes, paying more for it as it suits him down to the ground, and now is paying a Solicitor to effectively hand back, get rid off, dump back at the dealer, the motorhome that was his pride and joy when he drove it from the dealer, and this pain will be vivid and real, every time he looks out of a window at it, or walks past it!

I have experience with this, as in addition to loving campers, my wife and I love boats, and we have been lucky enough to have had several nice boats, ranging from tiddlers about 24' up to bigger one's 44' We have never commissioned a boat, and taken delivery of it with everything right, but try to be philosophical and sort it. Luckily because of my job, I can fix most things or employ people that can (Boats and Motorhomes enjoy a lot of duality, in Webasto heating, Air Con, MasterVolt, etc)

The only time we went down the legal route, it was a clear open and shut case, and it was the most intensely, frustrating three months of my life, an itch I couldn't scratch, with this horrible re-occurring thought, that the only way to feel better was to jump in the car and drive to QB Marine on the Hamble and beat the shit out of the guy ran the place.

The reality was that a £50K (this was in 2005) Marlin RIB when it slammed in a confused sea, cracked! All superstructure admittedly, but still a nasty horrible unsightly crack in a three week old luxury brand RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat)

After being intensely frustrated how useless and powerless Trading Standards are, and listening to the advice of our Solicitor, who is has been our Solicitor for years and is a close friend the advice was fix, repair and move on, and this mantra was repeated time and time again.

In the end, after wasting more money, it was established that QB were skint, hadn't a pot to piss in (like most boat brokerages) which is why they were vigorously refusing a refund, they simply couldn't afford to take the boat back, and once I realised that I didn't actually "want" them to take our boat back, we started talking and once the threat of bankruptcy and winding up threats were removed from the table, QB became quite co-operative and involved Marlin, who knew of the problem and it was a design fault, and Marlin sent over two engineers from Italy, they hired a local boat builders workshop on the Hamble and removed the faulty parts of the superstructure, replaced them with the "new" stainless steel re-enforced parts, and the boat was back on the marina ready to play with within a week of them starting the repair

The point was that the dark thoughts of murder and dark alleys, dissipated the day that I found out that I couldn't get a refund as QB had no money, if I shut them down (which I suggested to my Solicitor I wanted done on "principle") I wouldn't have got my RIB repaired so we had to talk, which as soon as we'd had that "Lets resolve this" conversation I started to feel optimistic and look forward to being able to play with the RIB which is why we'd ordered it in the first place!

Also, just a heads up, although I hope that we (Van Bitz) have a good reputation, people are unhappy with us from time to time, a situation that if legitimate we will bend over backwards to resolve, unless the email, letter or call starts with "I know my rights and I am going to sue you"

Our stock response to that is "OK if we are entering into litigation, we will do or say nothing further in case we prejudice ourselves, bye"

Whereas If someone call's and say's "I don't know if you can help me, but I have a problem with "XYZ" and wonder I I can chat to someone about it" our response is "OK How can we help and what do we need to do to make this right"

Luckily the answer for us is "No, we didn't remove your exhaust when we fitted the Air Con, so don't know why its now rattling four months after we did the job"

Sometimes you have to think what the long term, best result for a situation will be, before you shout loudly

Great advice, but very difficult to see in the heat of the 'newness' of it all. Evidenced by your experience. Hope the OP can stay calm, get the assistance required to find the best way forward and move on. Frustrating or what!!!!

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[Coolcats]

Now, I know that I am in the trade and will be tarred with sticking up for the dealer, which I am not, just for those that read and don't actually take in what they have read when it contradicts their original position, I am not sticking up for poor service.

Going down the legal route is a nightmare! Lets be frank, the OP really wanted this van, to such an extent that he was happy to pay £14K more than when he first decided to buy it, so lets look at the best outcome he could hope to achieve?

He gets his money back and has no van, a van that he was prepared to pay £14K more for as he liked that particular van!

So that is a negative outcome!

So he starts legal proceedings and the litigation becomes protracted, in the interim the camper can't be used (you can hardly claim that a camper is unsafe to drive, ergo, not fit for purpose if you happily galivanting around in it during the litigation period)

The dealership will not loose sleep over the protracted litigation, their Solicitors will be handling it, and the only time it will cross anyone's mind will be when the dealerships Solicitors call's them to clarify something.

The OP will undoubtedly loose sleep over the situation, having spent a lot of money buying a camper that he likes, paying more for it as it suits him down to the ground, and now is paying a Solicitor to effectively hand back, get rid off, dump back at the dealer, the motorhome that was his pride and joy when he drove it from the dealer, and this pain will be vivid and real, every time he looks out of a window at it, or walks past it!

I have experience with this, as in addition to loving campers, my wife and I love boats, and we have been lucky enough to have had several nice boats, ranging from tiddlers about 24' up to bigger one's 44' We have never commissioned a boat, and taken delivery of it with everything right, but try to be philosophical and sort it. Luckily because of my job, I can fix most things or employ people that can (Boats and Motorhomes enjoy a lot of duality, in Webasto heating, Air Con, MasterVolt, etc)

The only time we went down the legal route, it was a clear open and shut case, and it was the most intensely, frustrating three months of my life, an itch I couldn't scratch, with this horrible re-occurring thought, that the only way to feel better was to jump in the car and drive to QB Marine on the Hamble and beat the shit out of the guy ran the place.

The reality was that a £50K (this was in 2005) Marlin RIB when it slammed in a confused sea, cracked! All superstructure admittedly, but still a nasty horrible unsightly crack in a three week old luxury brand RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat)

After being intensely frustrated how useless and powerless Trading Standards are, and listening to the advice of our Solicitor, who is has been our Solicitor for years and is a close friend the advice was fix, repair and move on, and this mantra was repeated time and time again.

In the end, after wasting more money, it was established that QB were skint, hadn't a pot to piss in (like most boat brokerages) which is why they were vigorously refusing a refund, they simply couldn't afford to take the boat back, and once I realised that I didn't actually "want" them to take our boat back, we started talking and once the threat of bankruptcy and winding up threats were removed from the table, QB became quite co-operative and involved Marlin, who knew of the problem and it was a design fault, and Marlin sent over two engineers from Italy, they hired a local boat builders workshop on the Hamble and removed the faulty parts of the superstructure, replaced them with the "new" stainless steel re-enforced parts, and the boat was back on the marina ready to play with within a week of them starting the repair

The point was that the dark thoughts of murder and dark alleys, dissipated the day that I found out that I couldn't get a refund as QB had no money, if I shut them down (which I suggested to my Solicitor I wanted done on "principle") I wouldn't have got my RIB repaired so we had to talk, which as soon as we'd had that "Lets resolve this" conversation I started to feel optimistic and look forward to being able to play with the RIB which is why we'd ordered it in the first place!

Also, just a heads up, although I hope that we (Van Bitz) have a good reputation, people are unhappy with us from time to time, a situation that if legitimate we will bend over backwards to resolve, unless the email, letter or call starts with "I know my rights and I am going to sue you"

Our stock response to that is "OK if we are entering into litigation, we will do or say nothing further in case we prejudice ourselves, bye"

Whereas If someone call's and say's "I don't know if you can help me, but I have a problem with "XYZ" and wonder I I can chat to someone about it" our response is "OK How can we help and what do we need to do to make this right"

Luckily the answer for us is "No, we didn't remove your exhaust when we fitted the Air Con, so don't know why its now rattling four months after we did the job"

Sometimes you have to think what the long term, best result for a situation will be, before you shout loudly

Spot on Eddie, I think its about de-personalising an issue (which is not always easy), the snagging list I mentioned on our conversion was nearly endless. From the converters point of view they had made good what had fallen apart including re-painting the bumpers the first time (Black VW Transporter bumpers should not be painted the majority do flake). So when I went back the last time to get the issue fixed again the dealer was very reluctant (they said they were not going to re-paint). The converter was selling their conversions via a VW dealer (I suspect that would be breaching a VAG dealership agreement), so I was negotiating for the re-paint with the dealer not the converter, it was the dealer who changed the bumpers from painted to Original VW ones..... But anyone going down the route of quoting trading standards or solicitors straight off will alienate the dealer and the' relationship' is broken. The VW dealer I mention no longer sells converted VW Transporters as I suspect they had more issues than they bargained for.

Have to say when we sold the T5 the people who purchased it have probably never had anything fall apart or failed as we had it all fixed.

 

[androidGB]

Now, I know that I am in the trade and will be tarred with sticking up for the dealer, which I am not, just for those that read and don't actually take in what they have read when it contradicts their original position, I am not sticking up for poor service.

Going down the legal route is a nightmare! Lets be frank, the OP really wanted this van, to such an extent that he was happy to pay £14K more than when he first decided to buy it, so lets look at the best outcome he could hope to achieve?

He gets his money back and has no van, a van that he was prepared to pay £14K more for as he liked that particular van!

So that is a negative outcome!

So he starts legal proceedings and the litigation becomes protracted, in the interim the camper can't be used (you can hardly claim that a camper is unsafe to drive, ergo, not fit for purpose if you happily galivanting around in it during the litigation period)

The dealership will not loose sleep over the protracted litigation, their Solicitors will be handling it, and the only time it will cross anyone's mind will be when the dealerships Solicitors call's them to clarify something.

The OP will undoubtedly loose sleep over the situation, having spent a lot of money buying a camper that he likes, paying more for it as it suits him down to the ground, and now is paying a Solicitor to effectively hand back, get rid off, dump back at the dealer, the motorhome that was his pride and joy when he drove it from the dealer, and this pain will be vivid and real, every time he looks out of a window at it, or walks past it!

I have experience with this, as in addition to loving campers, my wife and I love boats, and we have been lucky enough to have had several nice boats, ranging from tiddlers about 24' up to bigger one's 44' We have never commissioned a boat, and taken delivery of it with everything right, but try to be philosophical and sort it. Luckily because of my job, I can fix most things or employ people that can (Boats and Motorhomes enjoy a lot of duality, in Webasto heating, Air Con, MasterVolt, etc)

The only time we went down the legal route, it was a clear open and shut case, and it was the most intensely, frustrating three months of my life, an itch I couldn't scratch, with this horrible re-occurring thought, that the only way to feel better was to jump in the car and drive to QB Marine on the Hamble and beat the shit out of the guy ran the place.

The reality was that a £50K (this was in 2005) Marlin RIB when it slammed in a confused sea, cracked! All superstructure admittedly, but still a nasty horrible unsightly crack in a three week old luxury brand RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat)

After being intensely frustrated how useless and powerless Trading Standards are, and listening to the advice of our Solicitor, who is has been our Solicitor for years and is a close friend the advice was fix, repair and move on, and this mantra was repeated time and time again.

In the end, after wasting more money, it was established that QB were skint, hadn't a pot to piss in (like most boat brokerages) which is why they were vigorously refusing a refund, they simply couldn't afford to take the boat back, and once I realised that I didn't actually "want" them to take our boat back, we started talking and once the threat of bankruptcy and winding up threats were removed from the table, QB became quite co-operative and involved Marlin, who knew of the problem and it was a design fault, and Marlin sent over two engineers from Italy, they hired a local boat builders workshop on the Hamble and removed the faulty parts of the superstructure, replaced them with the "new" stainless steel re-enforced parts, and the boat was back on the marina ready to play with within a week of them starting the repair

The point was that the dark thoughts of murder and dark alleys, dissipated the day that I found out that I couldn't get a refund as QB had no money, if I shut them down (which I suggested to my Solicitor I wanted done on "principle") I wouldn't have got my RIB repaired so we had to talk, which as soon as we'd had that "Lets resolve this" conversation I started to feel optimistic and look forward to being able to play with the RIB which is why we'd ordered it in the first place!

Also, just a heads up, although I hope that we (Van Bitz) have a good reputation, people are unhappy with us from time to time, a situation that if legitimate we will bend over backwards to resolve, unless the email, letter or call starts with "I know my rights and I am going to sue you"

Our stock response to that is "OK if we are entering into litigation, we will do or say nothing further in case we prejudice ourselves, bye"

Whereas If someone call's and say's "I don't know if you can help me, but I have a problem with "XYZ" and wonder I I can chat to someone about it" our response is "OK How can we help and what do we need to do to make this right"

Luckily the answer for us is "No, we didn't remove your exhaust when we fitted the Air Con, so don't know why its now rattling four months after we did the job"

Sometimes you have to think what the long term, best result for a situation will be, before you shout loudly

Great advice Eddie, I suggest the OP and people in a similar situation read this through a couple of times.

Andrew

 

[JJ]

If I really, really want something AND I have the money available I just buy it.

As I understand it, you really wanted this van and, apart from some annoying faults and poor behaviour from the dealer, you are happy with it.

You mention the figure of £3000 to put it right, which I assume includes new tyres (6?) and a satellite thingy for £800.

So there isn't actually that much to fix to make it perfect for you.

Cheeky question.

What would that £3000 be doing if you didn't spend it on the van?

Do you need it for food or rent or pressies for the wife?

No?

Well, my advice would be to ignore all the negative and unhelpful posts and go ahead... fit new tyres etc... load up the van (include something nice for your other half as a surprise) and head off towards the horizon.

Every night you spend in it will make the "repair" price worth it a little more.

As Percy would say,

"A measly £3000... pay the man and be done with it..."

(and if you don't have the cash, Baldrick says there is always decent money to be made down on the docks.)


JJ

 

[JJ]

Whoops

 

[dabhand]

I have a cunning plan, fix it, forget it and for cough (in your van)! Problem solved!

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[Coolcats]

If I really, really want something AND I have the money available I just buy it.

As I understand it, you really wanted this van and, apart from some annoying faults and poor behaviour from the dealer, you are happy with it.

You mention the figure of £3000 to put it right, which I assume includes new tyres (6?) and a satellite thingy for £800.

So there isn't actually that much to fix to make it perfect for you.

Cheeky question.

What would that £3000 be doing if you didn't spend it on the van?

Do you need it for food or rent or pressies for the wife?

No?

Well, my advice would be to ignore all the negative and unhelpful posts and go ahead... fit new tyres etc... load up the van (include something nice for your other half as a surprise) and head off towards the horizon.

Every night you spend in it will make the "repair" price worth it a little more.

As Percy would say,

"A measly £3000... pay the man and be done with it..."

(and if you don't have the cash, Baldrick says there is always decent money to be made down on the docks.)


JJ

MoHo's are like yachts and other boats you will always be spending money on them......

 

[JJ]

MoHo's are like yachts and other boats you will always be spending money on them......

Don't spend much on my motorhome but then...

...motorhoming isn't my hobby, it's my lifestyle.


JJ

 

[eddie]

Tenting is standing in a cold shower ripping up Pound notes
Caravanning is standing in a cold shower ripping up Five pound notes
Motorhoming is standing in a cold shower ripping up Ten pound notes
Boating is standing in a cold shower ripping up Twenty pound notes
Flying is hanging around a muddy field ripping up Fifty pound notes

 

[Gellyneck]

Tenting is standing in a cold shower ripping up Pound notes
Caravanning is standing in a cold shower ripping up Five pound notes
Motorhoming is standing in a cold shower ripping up Ten pound notes
Boating is standing in a cold shower ripping up Twenty pound notes
Flying is hanging around a muddy field ripping up Fifty pound notes

You forgot Yorkshiring!

Is walking around shower cubicles and muddy fields picking up ripped up money and trying to purloin a roll of Sellotape!

Very sound insights in your previous port.

 

[Ingwe]

As you’ve said, you want to keep the van, so rejecting it is not an option. The dealer is still obliged to put you in the position you would have been in had the van been in the condition it was said to be in when you made the contract. The dealer represented (by ticking the box) that the Oyster tv was working. It isn’t. This applies to all the matters that were claimed to be working and in order but weren’t.

As Jim says, write a straight forward letter listing all the faults and what needs doing. Ask them for their proposals to rectify the position and give them a reasonable time to rectify matters. If the the proposals are unacceptable to you, put them on notice that you are going to have the remedial work done elsewhere, more convenient to you and you’ll be looking to the dealer to pay the costs of putting the van onto the condition claimed at sale. If the dealer refuses, you would need to pursue it through the courts. In England that would be reasonably straight forward but I note you’re in Scotland so I don’t know what actions are available to you there.

Either way, fretting won’t help so taking some positive steps will help get the matter remedied and also make you feel less angry and powerless. Hope you get it sorted.

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[pappajohn]

Beats me why you paid £14k more than the original sellers asking price?
£2k or £3k maybe... But £14k!!!

 

[JJ]

Beats me why you paid £14k more than the original sellers asking price?
£2k or £3k maybe... But £14k!!!

But Mr PJ... the deed is done and the OP knows why he did what he did.

I doubt that the fact that it puzzles you probably doesn't help much.

JJ

 

[Silver-Fox]

Beats me why you paid £14k more than the original sellers asking price?
£2k or £3k maybe... But £14k!!!

As someone said maybe the dealer price was the market price plus profit.

The OP couldn’t or didn’t get the chance to buy from the original seller for whatever reason.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Buying through a dealer allows the OP the option of HP.

 

[Toady]

Feeling for you Buddy. Don’t let it eat away at you like a cancer. 3K to sort things on an 80K van isn’t too bad in the scheme of things. Give the dealer a chance to sort. If no, document everything, get the work done and then decide your best course of action.
Forget how much the dealer made on the van. Same thing happened to me in the past. I actually found the receipt in the paperwork but ultimately, I was happy with the price I was paying and the p/x I had on the old van.
You only have one life. Live it and move on.

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[Just smiffy]

Dealers… don’t ya love em…

but dealers charge more to offer a warranty don’t they….

another thread to remind me to never buy from one…