Do you vaccinate (booster) your dog/cat every year?

Ours have always had their boosters, but at the moment, Blue's in a very bad way with a diagnosis of autoimmune disease. He's on steroids and has had a blood transfusion but over the weekend we'd decided to have him put to sleep at his vet appointment on Monday morning, so stopped his meds. The vet thought Blue had a bit more pink in his gums and checked his red cell count which had stabilised and suggested stopping the Atopica steroid all together. The upshot is, we still have a very sick dog but he's holding his own at the moment. Googling autoimmune disease in dogs led to a site that was linking the disease to the application of topical flea/tick treatments which he'd just had, but having said that, his brother had the same treatment and is fine, so what are you to do ?
 
It's a very good question and a bit of digging suggests the Veterinary Medicines Directorate published guidelines in 2010 saying the vaccines for some common illnesses only need to be given every three to four years. This should be known by all vets. I'm going to ask mine - but I fear it might be something perpetuated in the small print of the insurance policy. Our last JR lived to 16 on annual boosters.

However, I would be wary of creating any support for the anti-vax movement which is still campaigning, particularly in the US, that children should not be vaccinated at all. This is a very different issue and one where the science is very strongly on the side of vaccination.
 
we vaccinate all ours annually. Point to note if you do not take you pets to vets on a regular basis and do not have annual boosters it may invalidate your insurance policy.
 
Jagtazman said:
we vaccinate all ours annually. Point to note if you do not take you pets to vets on a regular basis and do not have annual boosters it may invalidate your insurance policy.
Click to expand...
Don't have insurance if it's bad enough put it down
Bill

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Bit more light on this. This morning I've called three vets near me and all say they that after the first year they are recommending the core vaccines are only given every THREE years! With only the Leptospiris given annually. If you are vaccinating yearly, I would urge you to have a chat with your vet.

This is what the VMD say . (The Veterinary Medicines Directorate is an Executive Agency of the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs)

Vaccination schedules The Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC), a publicly available document produced following the authorisation of a veterinary vaccine, provides information on the authorised use of the product and should be referenced by the veterinary surgeon when prescribing the product. The SPCs for authorised veterinary medicines in the UK are publicly available via the VMD’s product database: www.vmd.gov.uk/ ProductInformationDatabase/ High quality scientific data are available to support the primary and re-vaccination (booster) schedules. These data have been assessed by the VMD to ensure that the vaccine provides the required onset and duration of immunity claimed by the manufacturer.

Veterinary surgeons will take account of these recommendations and any warnings on the SPC alongside any specific factors for the individual animal, for example the level of maternally derived antibodies, or the local disease situation when devising the optimum vaccination schedule for each animal. Re-vaccination intervals

The VMD is aware of the debate regarding over-vaccination and that the number of vaccinations administered should be optimised, based on a benefit/risk analysis for each individual animal. Products providing a proven long duration of immunity will have this indicated in their SPC. Re-vaccination intervals specified on the SPC are supported by data from duration of immunity studies that confirm the vaccine is effective for the minimum period defined. Many factors influence the effectiveness of vaccines and the need for re-vaccination. A vaccination programme for an individual animal should be discussed and agreed between the veterinary surgeon and client.
 
No choice here as the law is rabies, dhppil every year + book signed, dated + vet number & worming the same but evry 3 months.
 
DBK said:
It's a very good question and a bit of digging suggests the Veterinary Medicines Directorate published guidelines in 2010 saying the vaccines for some common illnesses only need to be given every three to four years. This should be known by all vets. I'm going to ask mine - but I fear it might be something perpetuated in the small print of the insurance policy. Our last JR lived to 16 on annual boosters.

However, I would be wary of creating any support for the anti-vax movement which is still campaigning, particularly in the US, that children should not be vaccinated at all. This is a very different issue and one where the science is very strongly on the side of vaccination.
Click to expand...

Side tracking a bit.....but how come the Amish community do not vaccinate their children and yet have some of the healthiest children on the planet.....I am not anti vax, just pro choice as to what, how often and at what age. For example it's pregnant women's foetuses that are affected by Rubella....so vaccinate teenage girls, it's unnecessary for boys of any age. ( that's assuming vaccines work of course). Then there is mumps. It only causes a problem in men, so vaccinate teenage boys. Not girls as well. As its men that carry the HPV they should get the jab, not girls! Forget chicken pox altogether as its a fairly mild disease and immunity is much better if acquired naturally. Separate the MMR vaccine into its three components. Safer all round.
 
gus-lopez said:
No choice here as the law is rabies, dhppil every year + book signed, dated + vet number & worming the same but evry 3 months.
Click to expand...

It's a shame that they force this unnecessarily onto your dogs, it can't be healthy; but then the Spanish are not known for giving a fig about most animals. I think the French are the same and they love their dogs so its surprising, they too insist on it every year when the very same vaccines given in the UK or Belguim last for 3 years. and probably in reality much longer than that.
 
Jim said:
all say they that after the first year they are recommending the core vaccines are only given every THREE years! With only the Leptospiris given annually.
Click to expand...

That's what mine does looking at the vaccination records.

The Lepto does need to be annually.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim
Jim said:
Worrying....http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/report-lepto-vaccine-uk-dogs-dying/
Click to expand...

Not as worrying as the dog getting Lepto (y)

That reads to me like allergic type reactions which could happen with any medication whether it's given to animals or humans. I'd be asking what the figures are for all other drugs commonly given to dogs and if the figures aren't available I'd want to know what agenda the authors of such articles have to be picking on one particular vaccine. It seems to me remarkably similar to the anti-vax movement in the US.

I'm not sure which one my vet uses, I'll check when I get home but neither dog has ever shown an adverse reaction.
 
Our last golden retriever we took on when she was four years old.
Had all her vaccinations carried out and boosters etc every year.
Every summer without fail she had skin problems, scratching herself raw.
I hate to think how much she cost in vets fees.
They treated her for all types of mange and other things.
One year she was attacked by another dog and had to have an operation.
The vet said bring her back when she is better for her jabs.
We never did as we forgot. Funny enough she never had skin problems again.
 
NickNic said:
Not as worrying as the dog getting Lepto
Click to expand...

I can't find any figures about Lepto, Considering so many of the countries dogs have never had any jabs, guesses around 25% . then you'd think we'd see it. Given the problems it can cause, for the minimal risk, it does make me wonder.

All my dogs have always had all their jabs, I'm not advocating not to have them I have an open mind to the issue. A new scrumping pup has had me doing a bit of research.

jazz2.jpg
 
Jim said:
I can't find any figures about Lepto, Considering so many of the countries dogs have never had any jabs, guesses around 25% . then you'd think we'd see it
Click to expand...

I can't either other than vets reporting localised outbreaks.

I did find an alternative interpretation of the numbers of dogs having adverse reactions to L4: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/leptospira-vaccination-in-dogs

What is it they say about statistics?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
  • Like
Reactions: DBK
I had a couple of dogs take a bad reaction to vaccines when I blindly took the prompt to vaccinate every year. I even had advice from one vet that because I inadvertently missed a year when I left the RAF and moved house, county and job (time flies !) that they needed a complete booster set like a puppy as they would have lost all the immunity from previous vaccinations.

This prompted me to do some reading which revealed that the vaccine companies recommend 3 years for DHP. I at that time read about similar cases to my dogs of reaction to Lepto injections which incidentally protected only 2 of 50 potential strains of Lepto at the time and are believed to be only good for around 6-8 months, therefore your dog is not covered for the full year.

I switched vets when we got Keira who had a reasoned conversation with me and further revealed that Pi was from this year no longer being recommended but still was at my previous vet.
I now control my own pets vacs, no Lepto and look to carry out boosters every 5 years after the advice seems to be that they may be good for up to 7 years.
The longest lived dogs I had were 14 & 15 who I thought were at deaths door around 9 /10 when I stopped vacs and never gave them another. (and one was a pedigree Dalmatian, expected to live around 9-10 years
 
Last edited:
My dogs have always been vaccinated & this latest is no different.
She is a bit quiet after the booster for a few hours, she also has her Rabies-due next year.
I do think tho that the in-breeding with a lot of the 'pedigree' dogs is not good.
 
The breeder we got Merlin from does not believe in the vacinnations.I cannot find the link at the moment but she has posted on FB reports from American vets re this subject. She uses homeopathy tablets . When we first got our Otto , we had to have him early at 7 weeks( another story) asked vet if ok to vaccinate given the ok ( we were going away 8 weeks later prebooked before we had him but had a previous Shepherd who had been pts) at 5 mnths old he developed severe epilepsy. Having fits on and of all day every day. After two weeks it became so bad and under vet advise (different vet to the one who vaccinated him as we had changed vets . we had already decided) Otto was PTS. I asked the vet if it was the jabs, his answer was it is a possibilty but we cannot prove it.
Because of what happened to Otto , when we saw the breeder to pick up Merlin her advise was, if you have to have the jabs leave it untill the latest you can for the first one( around 12 weeks i think, ) then the usual gap before the second. this is what we did , giving him the homeopath tablet for three days before and three days after the jabs. then it was one every other week . a phil of 50 cost £7 . Neither of my dogs have had any of the diseases. A couple of things pet insurence may not cover the dog if no yearly booster and dog kennels may not accept them if you have to put them in kennels.
 
Are there more diseases that need to be vaccinated against these day's than say in the 60s/70s?
 
Hi Jim

My 14 and a half year old bichon Friche had the puppy vaccinations and one booster only and have never had anymore boosters since, apart from the rabies booster. I think the vets promote vaccines purely for the money and not for the benefit of the dog.
I, like yourself have researched what harm these vaccines can cause to dogs.
We take our dogs abroad every winter and have no choice but to give them the rabies jab. Last year aged 13 and a half years they were due booster rabies jabs. I phoned DEFRA and asked whether my dogs could just have a blood test to see if they are still immune to rabies.The answer unfortunately was no, they must have the rabies booster. I was really concerned that the rabies booster would kill them. I even mentioned to the vet that I was worried as they are so old.
They were both given the rabies booster jab and passports were updated. I no sooner got down the steps from the vet when Buster collapsed and poo'd himself. I rushed him back upsatairs and he was treated as an emergency and given several life saving injections. He was kept in all day for observation and thankfully he recovered. He had a bad reaction to the rabies booster. I think that will be the last one as I don't think they will be alive when the next one is due.
If we get another dog I would do exactly the same. Just initial vaccinations and one booster and then absolutely no more.
Would I question my GP, I always do, I hate to take any medications and always research the necessity and side effects of any medication and usually I choose not to take any. I am of the opinion that the body has the means to repair itself, in most instances (except of course for cancer and some other diseases) and taking medication upsets the balance of your body and the side effects are often worse than than the illness itself.
It has to be your choice. I wouldn't want to influence you one way or the other. I would say keep researching and do what you think is the right thing by your beautiful new baby.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Saying that vets only do the vacs as a money making exercise I think is over-egging it, whilst some may see £ signs, I suggest that many don't ... our vet's practice for example (Vets4Pets) does a 'one off' vacs payment and then they are covered for life for the standard ones, when we did it for our 3 it was £70 plus that year's vac so about £90 but that's all, since then we've not had to pay for the vacs but what you need to bear in mind is that when they go in for their annual vacs they also get a health check which, I suggest, is more important as not everything can be picked up, even by the most observant owner. The only vacs we pay for are the 3 yearly rabies ones for the pet passport.

Our dogs have always been vaccinated yearly, living 14, 15, 16 and even up to 17.5 years, so we must be doing something right!
 
lesleyjean said:
Hi Jim

My 14 and a half year old bichon Friche had the puppy vaccinations and one booster only and have never had anymore boosters since, apart from the rabies booster. I think the vets promote vaccines purely for the money and not for the benefit of the dog.
I, like yourself have researched what harm these vaccines can cause to dogs.
We take our dogs abroad every winter and have no choice but to give them the rabies jab. Last year aged 13 and a half years they were due booster rabies jabs. I phoned DEFRA and asked whether my dogs could just have a blood test to see if they are still immune to rabies.The answer unfortunately was no, they must have the rabies booster. I was really concerned that the rabies booster would kill them. I even mentioned to the vet that I was worried as they are so old.
They were both given the rabies booster jab and passports were updated. I no sooner got down the steps from the vet when Buster collapsed and poo'd himself. I rushed him back upsatairs and he was treated as an emergency and given several life saving injections. He was kept in all day for observation and thankfully he recovered. He had a bad reaction to the rabies booster. I think that will be the last one as I don't think they will be alive when the next one is due.
If we get another dog I would do exactly the same. Just initial vaccinations and one booster and then absolutely no more.
Would I question my GP, I always do, I hate to take any medications and always research the necessity and side effects of any medication and usually I choose not to take any. I am of the opinion that the body has the means to repair itself, in most instances (except of course for cancer and some other diseases) and taking medication upsets the balance of your body and the side effects are often worse than than the illness itself.
It has to be your choice. I wouldn't want to influence you one way or the other. I would say keep researching and do what you think is the right thing by your beautiful new baby.
Click to expand...
i agree with you .
my last dog lived to be 15 yr old . travelled abroad just about every year. actualy left uk before the pets passport scheme came out . thanks to mr .blair . we left in december99 with papers to come back
.vets very often dont seem to know the job they are doing . but they arent alone . most authority jobs folk are quite stupid really.
 
I'm watching this thread wondering what to do (so thanks @Jim for starting it)

My dog had all his injections as a pup, but has had none since.

Apart from this, he has been to the vets once in his life when we stupidly gave him a lamb bone and bits of it clogged his stomach.

He has always had flee and worming treatments. He eats more what we eat than dog food, but we don't eat processed food so it's all home cooked natural produce.

He's an 11 year old staff in perfect health.
IMG_0129.jpg


Now I don't know what to do. After following this thread I find myself calling vets and thinking about having him vaccinated again.
Think I'm going to end up doing a lot of research on this subject.
 
input on this subject is very interesting to me as I was a breeder for thirty odd years, nowadays I go motorhoming, Lepto is the most important jab, some breeds of dogs are 'ratters' terrier, spaniel, working labs, if they live in country areas or on farms they are especially at risk, the rat carries the Lepto bug. What I have told puppy buyers is not what I have practised with my own, for the first year they had their full vaccines, after that none, I had my own field/paddock and walks on a lead at all times, pretty safe, the cough vaccine Ihad after first year but not before as if the youngsters got a cough their immunity was built up for the future, show dogs get the vaccine regularly. For passports follow the regulations, also for kenelling, vets will poo poo this theory but they are after quite a lot of dosh anyway! Worming, tick prevention, grooming g is vital, also treat your dog at least twice a year for lung worm, its on the increase. Sorry to go on a bit but o Lyn trying to help if I can.
 
More and more vets are offering the titre test these days (the one where I work - in a non-clinical capacity - certainly does). However, one thing you should be aware of is that testing is more expensive than vaccinating. And of course, if the test shows that vaccination is necessary, you still have the vaccination cost on top of that.

The annual vaccination also includes a general checkup, which offers a chance to pick up other conditions relatively early. As there's no NHS for pets, a routine checkup is no bad thing.

If your pet is insured, you need to check your T&Cs carefully. Failing to vaccinate your pet and/or get an annual checkup may have an impact on your cover. Obviously, you won't be covered against vaccinatable diseases if you choose not to vaccinate, but you may also find that cover for other things (dentistry springs to mind) is invalid if you haven't had regular checkups.

For dogs, our practice now routinely alternates the vaccinations, which means that part of the vaccination (and I can't remember which part, and can't look it up while I'm not at work) only gets done every 2 years, not every year. Some things that the various vaccinations cover are more prevalent in some parts of the country than others, which may affect which things you choose to vaccinate against - in consultation with your vet.

For cats, there are a selection of options, and which of those you choose may be influenced by whether you have an indoor or outdoor cat, whether your cat is an inveterate hunter, etc. I don't know much about cats, so I can't really comment there, but I do look after the computer systems at work, and we have a number of different cat vaccinations available. Unlike dogs, with cats you'd typically continue with the same type of vaccinations, unless your (or your cat's) circumstances change.

The length that a vaccination is considered effective for is determined by the drug manufacturers who test and apply for licences for them, not by your vet - and clearly they have to err on the side of caution. I can't tell you why there's a difference between human vaccination and animal vaccination (but I can certainly ask). It may well have to do with the differences in the way we treat our pets, or it may be that we have done enough testing on humans to be confident in administering larger doses of vaccinations that are effective for life, vs a lower dose in animals that needs topping up regularly. But I'm merely speculating here.

Rabies vaccinations are certified for 3 years - which means that that's how long the drug company is confident in its effectiveness in enough cases from their testing (but I don't know what the criteria for "enough" would be). However, regulations in different countries vary, so you may find that some countries will only accept your dog if it's had a rabies vaccination within the past year. Having said that, I guess the manufacturers (if not the governments of those particular countries) are now confident that the vaccination is reliable, since you can now get a pet password once your dog has had the vaccination. Only a few years ago, you were obliged to get a rabies titre test several weeks later to prove that the vaccine had been effective before a vet could issue a passport.

It is absolutely vital that puppies and breeding bitches get vaccinated. The vaccinations protect against some truly horrific diseases, and although I have chosen not to witness them personally, I can assure you that the veterinary staff find it just as heartbreaking as the owners when they have to watch entire litters of puppies dying with horrendous haemorrhagic diarrhoea, despite their best intensive care efforts. (In fact, since the puppies are likely to be hospitalised, the owners will witness far less of this harrowing event than the vets and nurses who are desperately trying to save them.) In most cases, it's unlikely that more than 1 or 2 puppies, if any, will survive.

Don't forget herd immunity too. By choosing to vaccinate your own dog or cat, you are helping the wider dog and cat population.

As with all things medical, there will always be people who have had a bad experience who are angry and upset enough to point to isolated examples and extrapolate wildly for the general case without any scientific foundation for their claims. It's true in animal medicine just as much as human medicine that no drug is free from side-effects, but you have to balance the benefits of the drug for the majority against the risk and consequences of side-effects for the minority. (And part of the point of testing and licensing is that it WILL be a majority benefit vs a minority negative effect.) Of course it's utterly shit for you if you're in the minority for a particular drug, but that doesn't automatically make the drug bad for the majority.

The standards of veterinary practices and individual vets vary, of course (something that we're finding at the moment, whilst having to rely on locums for cover in a busy practice while we're recruiting to replace vets and nurses who have moved on). Many veterinary practices are now owned by large corporations - some of which are more stealthy about it than others. In these, the vets are often bound by corporate protocols, and don't have much leeway to practice strictly in the best interests of the animal. If you can possibly find a local independent vet - and even better, if you can find one that offers its own Out of Hours cover, although that's a different topic altogether - you may find that you can get a more honest assessment of your pet's vaccination requirements. Or at least a willingness to think outside the box.

As dogs grow older, they absolutely do build up increased immunity to the diseases that we vaccinate for, so there is no doubt that there comes a point where vaccination becomes less necessary. By all means, if you have reservations about vaccinations, get the titre test done. That way you can make an informed decision about whether to vaccinate. But please don't decide not to vaccinate and hope for the best - whatever you've read on the internet.
 
Jim said:
We tend to vaccinate ourselves once, yet we vaccinate our dogs every 12 months regardless. Why? Do they need it? Or is it a sick, cynical, money making exercise
Click to expand...
Thank you for prompting an interesting conversation.

In short, the answer is "pragmatism" - on both sides.

Firstly, vaccines work in the same way as contracting (and surviving) the disease the vaccination is for. If you catch measles and survive, you should never catch it again. The same is true of the measles vaccine (assuming it "takes" for you). In addition, most of the human vaccines that you're thinking of are against the various "childhood" diseases, in which the risk of contracting them anyway decreases with age - and herd immunity due to vaccination of the vast majority of the population.

However, the same is not true for 'flu or the 'flu vaccine, for instance - partly because there are so many strains of the 'flu virus; the most widespread strain changes regularly, and it's financially untenable to vaccinate against every single one, so you pick the strains to vaccinate against each year based on statistics. Sometimes that works; sometimes the statistics get it wrong.

If you're travelling abroad, there are a number of vaccinations that you may need, depending on where you're travelling to (see http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Travel-immunisation/Pages/Introduction.aspx), and most of those will only last a year. We are just lucky in this country that those particular diseases are not widespread, so that we are not regularly exposed to them and do not require regular vaccinations against them.

Catching (and surviving) the diseases that we vaccinate animals against does not give them complete immunity from catching the same disease again, and this is why regular vaccinations are advisable. But again, pragmatism comes into play. The absolute reality may be that for a particular disease, the true required frequency might actually be 1 year after initial puppy/kitten vaccination, then 18 months, then 3 years (I'm not saying that this is true for any of them - it's just an example), but that's too irregular for people to remember or for the drug companies to explain. Pragmatically, once per year (or every other year, or every 3 years, depending on the vaccine) is much easier to remember. And that's where the titre tests come in. But bear in mind that although there's a good correlation, the titre tests can still only measure antibodies, rather than actual immunity.

A bit of additional googling led me to these two interesting articles:
Broken Link Removed
http://vaccicheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Michael-Day.pdf

As with many of medical solutions, it's a risk-benefit analysis. Does the benefit of a vaccination outweigh the risk of the side-effects?
 
Its the same with all medcines they all have side effects so its whats the side effect of treating vs the effect of not treating. In most cases (especially with mmr in humans) its a no brainer have the vaccination. I really can't understand the perception that doctors/vets want to make people or animals sick the advice varying from year to year probably puts some people off but it just means things are being reconsidered as new evidence becomes available.
 
My experience of veterinary surgeons in the last fortnight.

My puppy had already had the first vaccination when I picked her up so she needed the second stage. I present her at the vets, a woman in a her mid 40s, so I imagine she'd been a vet for a long time, she stroked her and said what a pretty puppy, that was the extent of her physical examination.

She checked the paperwork and said "Oh we don't have that brand of vaccine so we better start again. I'll give her the initial injection now and and you can come back in 3 to 4 weeks and get the second"

I said "No chance, why would you double up like that, it's so unnecessary. Please find that brand of vaccine or I'll go and find it a vet that uses it."

"Okay" she says "Just give me a moment and I'll see what I can do"

She comes back "We have another branch that has that vaccine if you bring her back in two days time we can give it her then."

Holding up Jazz's ears. I asked. "Can you check her ears, she has a lot of wax but they are not irritating her"

A cursory glance from a foot away she says "Yes she's got mites nothing to worry about probably got them from her mother. I'll prescribe this cream put it in her ears once a day for seven weeks then once a week until the tubes empty."

I left the vets with the medicine and returned two days later for the booster and met another vet. They had the correct vaccine and administered it, he then asked if the puppy was checked over in its last visit I said no not properly, he gave a nice thorough going over, looked into her ears with a scope checked her heart and breathing pads, nails, microchip etc. "she's in great shape he said"

"What about the mites" I said,

"She hasn't got any mites"

"That cream is good then, because the vet 2 days ago told me she had mites"

He checked again about a minute in each ear with Jazz struggling and trying to bite his face off, "your puppy does not have mites"

All done, went back into reception only to be presented with a bill that included the cream for the ears. :doh: told them to remove that and after much huffing and puffing from the receptionist, she eventually did, it was like I was deducting something from her wages.​

That a vet was quite willing to double up on a puppies vaccination rather than order one in or send me elsewhere is pretty unforgivable for someone who's supposed to care for animals.

Jazz under a table getting some shade this weekend
jazz1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Maybe this is a separate contentious issue, but I do think that pet insurance is manufacturing work for vets and we're all paying the price whether we insure our pets or not.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Join us

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Back
Top