Do motorhome owners need their own consumer association/council/org/whatever

[rosalan]

I am not sure this would be a great idea.
From a club point of view, what makes us at FUN special is you Jim. No committees, chairpersons, area leaders or what have you. A single focal point who is able to respond without minutes being read etc.
To become some form of collective semi advisory organisation would introduce conflict of opinions, commercial bias and possibly mixed views on the validity of any experts.
However I do think there could be mileage in extending the discount schemes, insurance being one that most of us would possibly be interested in.
On a far grander scale, it would be marvellous if FUN with all interested motorhome clubs and organisations could identify themselves as a power base, a British Collective to promote Motorhoming on a national scale dealing specifically with our interests.

 

[Jim]

From a club point of view, what makes us at FUN special is you Jim. No committees, chairpersons, area leaders or what have you. A single focal point who is able to respond without minutes being read etc.
To become some form of collective semi advisory organisation would introduce conflict of opinions, commercial bias and possibly mixed views on the validity of any experts.

Yes it would have nothing to do with Fun, you must have mssed this

That is true, but I wouldn't want 'Fun' to get too serious which is why it would need to be independent

 

[Jim]

I think many owners will actually believe that the NCC is there to help them

The NCC is not a consumer organisation. It's a trade body, looking after the interest of companies in the caravan and motorhome industry.

Our Vision statement:

“To be the most effective business partner for each of our members.”

Our Mission statement:

“That the NCC is the recognised and respected authoritative trade body for the UK caravan industry providing leadership through a centre of expertise offering support, products and services to members for the successful evolution of their businesses.”

 

[Kirsten]

An independent body representing the needs and views of Motorhome owners sounds like a good idea indeed. Could start small with volunteers ( I am sure many retired funsters have both the skills and the passion to make a go of it.) If funds needed Crowdfunding might be an initial way forward. The initial body could be some sort of task force to analyse the needs and scope the issues.

 

[Alex and Lesley]

Jim What about a similar ideology to the Federation of Small Businesses which was set up to give as the name suggests small businesses protection and influence.

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[AXO66]

One way of starting could by selecting one or two issues, such as perhaps, payloads, and parking.
This would , when thinking about it, generate quite a lot of work, in terms of research of how it is now, then moving towards what it should look like.
Then start the engagement with identified relevant organisations.

This would also test out the willingness and commitment of funsters.

 

[romany]

I think when you want to keep things impartial the best way is to use the law many complaints as we see on here are manufacturers dealers not selling goods fit for purpose and when the customer goes back to them laughing in their face and often with the throw away comment so sue me. Now I know that having a decent legal team very quickly changes that attitude the problem is very few customers have that clout so maybe some type off legal club or pot paid into by all members giving a kind of legal aid would one get results for people in this positions and 2 change the attitude of our manufacturers.

 

[emjaiuk]

Has anybody any experience of the Motor Caravaners Club?

https://themotorcaravannersclub.co.uk/

I know nothing about them other than that they exist. Could they provide the nucleus of this?

 

[jongood]

Imo we could look to the NZMCA for ideas. They have su cesfullly lobbied NZ government to set up hundreds of 'aires' a d public dump stations alongside the Self-contained motorhome certification which you need the sticker to be able to use them without getting a fine.
The membership in NZ is extensive and members are identified by a numbered badge which acts as a deterrent to dribble or dump etc, effectively drawing a line between responsible motorhomers and travellers.

 

[PeteH]

By a strange co-incidence I was watching Breakfast time today and the BBC person was talking to two "activists" and I thought to myself, "Well, as I am retired and have a little time spare, I could fancy being an "activist" wonder what the entry requirements are ?"

Wild guess here, but perhaps you DON'T need formal qualifications to be an activist, you just state you are one and hey presto YOU ARE ONE !!

So let's all become Motorhome Activists !!! We'll take it in turns to be on the telly, but must remember that activists are there to mainly be offended about something, so if we could decide among ourselves what we are each offended by that would be great as we don't want an overlap here folks !

So yeah let's do it !!

The Brown Ale is definitely working, Keep it up?. But I know how I feel about "activists". Some do good work. Many are just a PIA.!

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[63720]

Recently the C&MC finally recognised motorhomes and changed it's name. However, what specifically has it, or the other big clubs for that matter, done for motorhomes? I believe they have done absolutely nothing as there are some sites still without a drive over service point, they merely jumped on a passing bandwagon. I'm in favour of this but I have reservations on it's structure but it should have a formal constitution.

 

[Jim]

Has anybody any experience of the Motor Caravaners Club?

https://themotorcaravannersclub.co.uk/

I know nothing about them other than that they exist. Could they provide the nucleus of this?

Nucleus. Not really they have a dwindling membership far less than we have here and gettting smaller every year. Until only recently you needed postal orders to join. They do have a very good area rally network program though and are a good club in that regard with lots of rallies all over the country.

 

[Coolcats]

The two big clubs have the clout and the cash and should be looking after us but are not interested in anything but their bottom lines.
The NCC does a great job looking after the makers and traders interests, the only time it focusses on consumers is when trying to get them through the door of the NEC at £8 a time.

Do we need someone fighting our corner. Do we have anything to fight for?

Things we could do

Campaign for stuff important to us, parking, camping, payload etc
Offer advice
Approve dealers
Approve Motorhomes
Approve service engineers
Award good service

It would need a constitution, with members/chairman/treasurer/ect it would likely need to be a limited company. etc. It would need to be funded somehow.

I know It would be a lot of work, would it be a waste of time?

Add to the list a proper dealer network eg you do not have to return to the selling dealer to have the warranty work done. Just like any other consumer purchase.

 

[Gellyneck]

I believe they have done absolutely nothing as there are some sites still without a drive over service point,

My understanding is there is a phased roll out plan to install consistent drive-over dump points to all (nearly all) sites.
In the last 12-18 months we've been on a number of sites when they've been installing them (seems like it's one company covering Scotland \ Northern \ Central England) including Strathclyde, Melrose, Garlieston, Burrs Country Park, etc. We've also been on a number of others where the facility has been up dated but not present when being done.
Can't remember being on a C&MC owned site that hasn't had a drive-over dump point (but there are lots we haven't been to).
We've also given feedback as to some issues on some of the new installations that were rectified with a few days.
Whether that single item constitutes enough of a change to meet motorhomers expectations is questionable and as such, assuming you are member, I would feedback into Corby as this would be the way to drive change.

 

[maison]

Such an organisation is long overdue. You only have to read Member’s posts re limited payload, poor service, poor design and construction and lack of facilities in the U.K.

We would pay an annual fee towards the costs of such an organisation if it could be made to work.

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[emjaiuk]

I think that the biggest single problem with using a motorhome is the lack of spaces to stop if you are doing informal touring, i.e. without pre-booking. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be solved by demands for free or low cost aire type stops. A relaxation of the controls on 5 van sites, with realistic charges may, but would require substantial lobbying by somebody.

Malcolm

 

[The Wino]

I suspect that a lot of people are very keen for this to happen but might not be so keen to pay!!!! But I could just be an ageing sceptic. I suspect that there are just as many dodgy car dealers our there%wise as motorhome dealers but can't think of a scheme like the one suggested despite much higher numbers. I think one of the biggest areas of problems is long damp warranties with the manufacturer standing the cost of repairs but not at a rate that encourages anyone to do them.

 

[jongood]

I think that the biggest single problem with using a motorhome is the lack of spaces to stop if you are doing informal touring, i.e. without pre-booking. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be solved by demands for free or low cost aire type stops. A relaxation of the controls on 5 van sites, with realistic charges may, but would require substantial lobbying by somebody.

Malcolm

why not? It works perfectly well in many other countries.

 

[The Wino]

why not? It works perfectly well in many other countries.

Theres no reason why not other than I suspect aires in France probably sprang up due to the local authorities deciding to set them up to encourage local business not because motorhomes campaigned for them.

 

[Jim]

It could be built around the Forum but impartiality will be very difficult to achieve so I agree with you it has to be at a distance from the Forum

It would not be linked to motorhomefun at all. While we might do a bit of low level campaigning/exposing in the magazine and on these pages. This never will be a campaigning site. While we will always try and look after the interests of each other, Fun exists only to promote the fun aspect of motorhome ownership

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[Simon Select]

I think this is a great idea, from a dealers perspective a set of standards could be put into place, that any good dealer would probably hit.
It could be the MHF approved dealer scheme or something similar. Dealers that are tried and trusted on here. You could even implement a 3 strikes rule. You will never keep every customer 100% happy, so there will be the odd mistake/ unreasonable customer/ unperceived problem with the van. We are currently 100% Satisfaction with reviews etc but I know at some point we will get negative feedback. But as long as its very rare and dealt with appropriately then the vast majority would still recommend if that makes sense.
I know Jim said about being impartial etc, I don't see why Fun couldn't become the fighting force for the consumer. I mean christ this site has the numbers, it should have the clout.
There are surely enough qualified or retired professionals on here. I bet we have solicitors/ barristers etc on here that could potentially offer advice for how to deal with things in the correct way.
We could also set an MHF industry standard set of rules for what is expected in the sale, how a standard handover should be completed, what a workshop should and shouldn't prep etc.
I would have zero issue with anyone from any group asking to inspect our workshops/ look at out processes etc as we have nothing to hide. I also share my workshop with Citroen (Our Citroen Business Centre already had the commercial ramps needed for Motorhomes as well) As a result our facilities have to be 100% all the time as its also a Franchised Dealers workshop.
I am pretty sure if a "Mini group" was formed on here we could work together on this project. Even down to things like the handover, ours take forever because I will show you every single part of your van working and will explain how and why it works. It means we have customers leaving us knowing what they are doing and it saves a tonne of phone calls with things such as "Where is the bathroom light"
I think this is a very interesting post as something like this as far as I am concerned has never been done.

Simon

 

[MC 55 FUN]

The two big clubs have the clout and the cash and should be looking after us but are not interested in anything but their bottom lines.
The NCC does a great job looking after the makers and traders interests, the only time it focusses on consumers is when trying to get them through the door of the NEC at £8 a time.

Do we need someone fighting our corner. Do we have anything to fight for?

Things we could do

Campaign for stuff important to us, parking, camping, payload etc
Offer advice
Approve dealers
Approve Motorhomes
Approve service engineers
Award good service

It would need a constitution, with members/chairman/treasurer/ect it would likely need to be a limited company. etc. It would need to be funded somehow.

I know It would be a lot of work, would it be a waste of time?

Here's our vote :

We nominate you Jim as Chairman & Founder member.?

 

[Basildog]

The NCC is not a consumer organisation. It's a trade body, looking after the interest of companies in the caravan and motorhome industry.

Our Vision statement:

“To be the most effective business partner for each of our members.”

Our Mission statement:

“That the NCC is the recognised and respected authoritative trade body for the UK caravan industry providing leadership through a centre of expertise offering support, products and services to members for the successful evolution of their businesses.”

Whilst that may well be the case they have used slight of hand as they have certainly done a very good job of making the public feel that they are somehow being protected with the NCC brand
The NCC logo badge is stuck prominently on most British Motorhomes and caravans .
They ram their AWS workshop scheme down the throats of an unsuspecting public at every given opportunity as if the public is somehow being properly protected by the NCC and the 2 clubs .
Not to mention that the NEC show is also run by the NCC and the 2 clubs .
They also offer their dispute resolution services to the public ??

So as a purely trade body they have certainly managed to totally convince many that they are somehow interested in serving the interests of leisure vehicle purchasers / owners public ??

 

[SpeedyDux]

It exists in France so why not in the UK as well.

The Federation Francaise des Associations et Clubs de Camping-Cars or FFACCC for short.

Its mission is to defend the rights of Camping-Caristes and their "confort de voyage".

Among other things it takes local Communes to Court when they impose parking restrictions that discriminate against camping-cars. There are many cases where the FFACCC has succeeded in getting these discriminatory restrictions declared illegal.

By joining one of the French Clubs you are automatically a Member of the FFACCC and entitled to its benefits.

 

[Jim]

Whilst that may well be the case they have used slight of hand as they have certainly done a very good job of making the public feel that they are somehow being protected with the NCC brand ⚠
The NCC logo badge is stuck prominently on most British Motorhomes and caravans .
They ram their AWS workshop scheme down the throats of an unsuspecting public at every given opportunity as if the public is somehow being properly protected by the NCC and the 2 clubs .
Not to mention that the NEC show is also run by the NCC and the 2 clubs .
They also offer their dispute resolution services to the public ??

So as a purely trade body they have certainly managed to totally convince many that they are somehow interested in serving the interests of leisure vehicle purchasers / owners public ⚠??

Well I posted their mission and values earlier in this thread. They make no secret that their loyalty is toward their members.

Yes they do have a "Consumer Page" But what is it, they are not ramming anything. A couple of pages on what looks like a 2003 web page with a few tips The rest is designed to lead you toward their members to buy , or visit their members at a show to buy. They do an excellent job for their members.

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[Theonlysue]

Even the big clubs don't listen to their members.
Example are the DA & THS meets.(district association and temporary holiday sites) with the camping and caravan club.
These are voluntarily ran by the members and depend on numbers turning up to support.
Getting to hear about them is becoming more of a problem as opinion is that the clubs are pushing their club sites, not these other options.
It helped me, when I worked fulltime, as I could camp cheaply every weekend with a great crowd of members. Hope they don't loose them.

 

[The Wino]

Well I posted their mission and values earlier in this thread. They make no secret that their loyalty is toward their members.

Yes they do have a "Consumer Page" But what is it, they are not ramming anything. A couple of pages on what looks like a 2003 web page with a few tips The rest is designed to lead you toward their members to buy , or visit their members at a show to buy. They do an excellent job for their members.

As you say they do what they say. A body set up with consumers interests first would give some balance there would be some areas like parking/vedwhere the interests would coincide

 

[SpeedyDux]

I have wondered about infiltrating the C&MH club.
we all join and become v active polite members..?

There is quite a naughty appeal to your suggestion. Motorhome activists giving the C&MC a good shake-up.

Currently HRH Prince Philip is the Club's Patron, and the Club President is Thomas Coke, 8th Earl of Leicester. That tells you how embedded the Club is in the establishment. It isn't going to become radicalised and a forceful pressure group unless the Members stage a coup d'etat and replace the cliques that control it.

 

[Basildog]

Well I posted their mission and values earlier in this thread. They make no secret that their loyalty is toward their members.

Yes they do have a "Consumer Page" But what is it, they are not ramming anything. A couple of pages on what looks like a 2003 web page with a few tips The rest is designed to lead you toward their members to buy , or visit their members at a show to buy. They do an excellent job for their members.

I don’t think the average person is going to bother visiting their website they just take the NCC badge on their new van as a sign of protection/ quality ?
It’s the same with the AWS workshops
I genuinely believe the public think they are on their side so as you say “ They do an excellent job for their members “ just a shame so many can’t actually be trusted

 

[Basildog]

There is quite a naughty appeal to your suggestion. Motorhome activists giving the C&MC a good shake-up.

Currently HRH Prince Philip is the Club's Patron, and the Club President is Thomas Coke, 8th Earl of Leicester. That tells you how embedded the Club is in the establishment. It isn't going to become radicalised and a forceful pressure group unless the Members stage a coup d'etat and replace the cliques that control it.

A friend of mine went to one of the big clubs National rally
I can’t actually type what he said about it on the forum ??
Some of it did involve worshiping the president/ chairman’s posterior apparently ?

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