Do closed Remis blinds make a PVC into a Faraday cage?

[BrianS]

Well, according to Ken from the YouTube channel "Life is too short" it does! Go into 8 minutes on this video -


Anyone know if he is right? Is the material they are made from not a sort of paper?

 

[bigtwin]

I know - I was replying to the post about lightning.

Ok, perhaps I should have said, it’s a Faraday cage, the rubber is academic.

Ian

 

[nicholsong]

But is that still the case when a vehicle is on rubber tyres?

Nothing to do with it as aircraft are a Faraday cage when at altitude.

I know having been hit on the nose cone climbing out of Manchester. Only damage was to the radar which out of necessity is mounted in the plastic nose cone outside the metal structure.

 

[Lenny HB]

But is that still the case when a vehicle is on rubber tyres?

Tyres have a lot of carbon in then to stop static shocks, you must remember them.

 

[Pausim]

Seems to be less of an issue in our coachbuild.

It depends on the construction materials used. Carthago make a selling point out of using aluminium in the construction to maintain the Faraday cage. The principle being that lightning will travel round the outside of the cage without entering the living area. On balance I would rather put up with a small inconvenience with downgraded radio signals in exchange for not getting fried if we were hit by lightning.

I hope we never get hit by lightning, even with a Faraday cage, because apart from having to change my underwear I expect all the electronics onboard would be destroyed.

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[Lenny HB]

I hope we never get hit by lightning, even with a Faraday cage, because apart from having to change my underwear I expect all the electronics onboard would be destroyed.

You might get away with Schaudt electrics but not a chance with CBE. On my mates van a fox knocked over the little electric fence he had around his e line (twice foxes had chewed through the wiring loom to rear lights) it only touched the paintwork on the sill. Took out the CBE distribution unit.

 

[Lenny HB]

It depends on the construction materials used. Carthago make a selling point out of using aluminium in the construction

Even the ones that look like paper in the Hymer almost cut out the WiFi signal from the house.

Won't work as a Faraday cage in the daytime when the blinds are open.

 

[Coolcats]

It’s not a faraday cage are signals disrupted by the coating on the blinds maybe but it’s still not a faraday cage

 

[Coolcats]

It depends on the construction materials used. Carthago make a selling point out of using aluminium in the construction to maintain the Faraday cage. The principle being that lightning will travel round the outside of the cage without entering the living area. On balance I would rather put up with a small inconvenience with downgraded radio signals in exchange for not getting fried if we were hit by lightning.

I hope we never get hit by lightning, even with a Faraday cage, because apart from having to change my underwear I expect all the electronics onboard would be destroyed.

There’s more chance of your electronics being taken out by an EMP than a lightning strike for starters your insulated from the ground by 4 great rubbery boots…..

 

[Lenny HB]

There’s more chance of your electronics being taken out by an EMP than a lightning strike for starters your insulated from the ground by 4 great rubbery boots…..

No you are not, tyres have a high carbon content to stop problems with static.

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[Fatboy]

B@llocks

 

[Nanniemate]

What's a Faraday cage

 

[Riverbankannie]

What's a Faraday cage

It blocks signals, a bit like a microwave casing/door or those pouches you can get for your credit cards.

 

[David and Sally]

What's a Faraday cage

A wire or metal cage that surrounds anything you want to protect from external electronic radiation. Imagine a bird cage.

Used these days as a pouch to store car keys in so they can’t be read by someone with a computer trying to steal their codes.

DIY Faraday Cage

backyardbrains.com

 

[Lenny HB]

What's a Faraday cage

A complete metal shell if an electricity like a lightning strike hits the outside the electricity travels around the outside leaving the ocupents unharmed.

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[Lenny HB]

Faraday cage - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Guigsy]

B@llocks

Your phone is only kicking out a couple of watts of radio power. The thin foil in blinds does make a difference. After all, the foil is there to reflect EM radiation (at IR frequencies).

 

[Pausim]

What's a Faraday cage

This is a Faraday Cage.

 

[David and Sally]

This is a Faraday Cage.
View attachment 866403

We all have one don’t we?

 

[Guigsy]

This is a Faraday Cage.
View attachment 866403

The more energy your need to carry, the thicker the cage needs to be. Tinfoil can be a Faraday cage for lower energies.

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[Fatboy]

Your phone is only kicking out a couple of watts of radio power. The thin foil in blinds does make a difference. After all, the foil is there to reflect EM radiation (at IR frequencies)

Your phone is only kicking out a couple of watts of radio power. The thin foil in blinds does make a difference. After all, the foil is there to reflect EM radiation (at IR frequencies).

Remis Blinds are paper not foil

 

[Guigsy]

Remis Blinds are paper not foil

If there's no conductive metal in there, then yes, paper thin blinds won't block much. Our rollers were foil backed.

 

[Nanniemate]

This is a Faraday Cage.
View attachment 866403

Every campsite should have one

 

[BrianS]

The concensus sems to be that closing Remis blinds does actually block mobile phone signal as Ken, from Life is Too Short, suggested. He recommends using the Open Signal app which shows you where the nearest cell tower is and suggests that, when you are in the van, you find out which direction the nearest tower is and then just leave that Remis blind open ;-)

 

[denisejoe]

I had much the same after moving into my first house when I had an electrician pal install my electric cooker as a favour late one evening. I still have the vision of him throwing the mains back on and flying backwards out of my under-stairs cupboard silhouetted by the blue flash. It was like a scene from a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

years ago working on street lighting I column would not work at night went to change the clock next thing I remember is hitting a strong metal fence 6 ft away.

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[EML]

Some of the comments above are confusing Faraday cages and lightning conductors. A van isn't going to be much use as a lightning conductor, particularly given the rubber tyres. Lightning is also initiated to points which have a high electric field, like a metal spike (there can be a huge electric field at the sharp tip of a conductor, which is why proper lightning conductors have lots of spikes at the top), or a tree in an otherwise bare field. Vans tend not to have this stuff, particularly if they've got lots of plastic on the topside.

Faraday cages are different - they're a mechanism used to stop electric fields ('EM radiation') penetrating an enclosure (an 'electric field' is a radio wave, or light, or X-rays, or whatever; they're all the same thing, just with different energies). The only reason you'd care about this in a van is if you want to let radiation in (for your phone) or keep it out (to stop lightning frying your electronics).

The enclosure must be a conductor, but can be full of holes, as long as the holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation you're trying to block. For mobile phones, you're talking maybe 2 or 3 cm. Electric fields can't travel at all in a conductor (beyond the skin effect distance), but can 'squeeze through' holes in the conductor, as long as they're not too small. MoHos are full of holes which are bigger than a centimetre or so, so aren't Faraday cages, at least not for mobile phone signals.

Lightning's different. There are a lot of different frqquencies of EM radiation in lightning, but there does seem to be lots of energy at wavelengths of a few metres. If your van is basically metal, apart from 1- or 2-metre holes at the windows, then it's probably a fairly good Faraday cage for lightning-generated radiation, so your electronics shouldn't pop during a lightning strike. It'll help if you've got conductive strips in the windscreen, foil on your blinds, and so on.

 

[Spriddler]

Some of the comments above are confusing Faraday cages and lightning conductors.............Lightning is also initiated to points which have a high electric field, like a metal spike (there can be a huge electric field at the sharp tip of a conductor, which is why proper lightning conductors have lots of spikes at the top), or a tree in an otherwise bare field. Vans tend not to have this stuff, particularly if they've got lots of plastic on the topside.

A mast on a moored yacht in my marina was struck and according to the manager the charge hit the electronics aerials at the top, came down the mast, burning out the yacht's internal wiring, destroying all instrumentation and blowing out the depth sounder sensor in the bottom skin of the hull causing the yacht to fill with water and sink. He said that whenever moored to a wooden pontoon in a thunderstorm one should drop the anchor and route the anchor chain in contact with the mast to act as a conductor to the sea bed. I don't know of anyone who has done that and I suspect it's just an old sailor's tale.

 

[Pausim]

Remis Blinds are paper not foil

The Remis Remisun Range incorporate an aluminium foil backing.

 

[gilbaro]

quite right about the anchor chain. Never liked being on a yacht with a great lightning conductor sticking up in a thunderstorm
Not sure where we are going to attach the anchor on the motorhome though
I always understood that a car was best place to be in a thunderstorm - more danger from the idiots in the other vehicles!!

 

[Petroleumblownapart]

Well, according to Ken from the YouTube channel "Life is too short" it does! Go into 8 minutes on this video -


Anyone know if he is right? Is the material they are made from not a sort of paper?

He is quite opinionated and doesn't always allow facts to dictate his opinions often.

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[Sixty-nine Chevy]

The Remis Remisun Range incorporate an aluminium foil backing.

So they do and I hadn't noticed because the foil is of course on the outside surface and so not obvious with our tinted hat windows. Actually, thinking about it I sit in turned around front seats in evening and cab windows are the pure papery folding Remis blinds which I assume do not block signal much.