Disappointed with New Motorhome Quality Standards

[Lenny HB]

Had 3 Hymers they were OK for a mid range van, nothing special but quality wise streaks ahead of Brit built vans.
Now have a small Carthago a few little niggles but build quality far better than Hymer.

If you are looking at £65k vans they are bottom end of budget range, Problem is they put loads of stuff in them to attract buyers but then have to cut back on quality to balance the books.
With German vans they spend the money on build quality then you have to pay on top for the extras.

 

[Saucer]

Slovenia is the world's biggest producer of leisure vehicles per capita. Cost of production apart, there is a large pool of skilled workers and a large forestry industry. Other than Adria, Carthago/Malibu has two factories. There are other Slovenian brands such as Robeta, MegaMobil and Tourne. All are renowned for the quality of their products. MegaMobil are launching in the UK at the NEC.

Really interesting information, thank you.

 

[raysalaugh]

Slovenia is the world's biggest producer of leisure vehicles per capita. Cost of production apart, there is a large pool of skilled workers and a large forestry industry.

Are they still using wood in the build of these motorhomes?.

 

[ianp]

renowned for the quality of their products.

'Quality' is a very subjective concept and rests in the eye of the beholder I tend to think and whether it is found in £30k, £60k, £120k or even £240k vehicles it's possible to argue.......! For me, stuck firmly in the £30k bracket, I philosophically gasp when I hear of people buying a vehicle at the equivalent of a nice semidetached house in middle England......but is it any different to buying a top spec Aston Martin....etc etc etc
I don't know what the design life expectancy of a motorhome / caravan/ static is but would suspect not much more than 15 - 20 years in reallity.......mmmm ?

 

[Lenny HB]

when I hear of people buying a vehicle at the equivalent of a nice semidetached house in middle England...

I suppose it's relative when you live in the South East and a very small starter home is over £300k it makes Motorhomes look reasonable.

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[Pausim]

Are they still using wood in the build of these motorhomes?.

Using wood for furniture is quite different from using wood for structural purposes. I have no problem with them using it in the furnishings.

 

[Northernraider]

'Quality' is a very subjective concept and rests in the eye of the beholder I tend to think and whether it is found in £30k, £60k, £120k or even £240k vehicles it's possible to argue.......! For me, stuck firmly in the £30k bracket, I philosophically gasp when I hear of people buying a vehicle at the equivalent of a nice semidetached house in middle England......but is it any different to buying a top spec Aston Martin....etc etc etc
I don't know what the design life expectancy of a motorhome / caravan/ static is but would suspect not much more than 15 - 20 years in reallity.......mmmm ?

Mine is 20 years old and in the £30 bracket . It cost more than my first flat but a 1/4 of my last house.

But it's quality built .

 

[plug]

Our 2023 has now done just shy of 12k miles. Creaks and rattles are starting to rear their heads. It was silent when we got it. The dealer did next to nothing to help apart from saying that "motorhomes do flex a bit." The front dashboard Cowell, the bit that bridges the Sprinter dashboard to the windscreen has developed a fair old creak. So, sitting on an aire with nothing to do, I got my tool kit out. All of the self-tapping screws beneath the windscreen blind had a good half-turn in them. The blind runners a good quarter on either side. So, having found this, I set about sorting the squeaking from the fifth seat. On the screw into the floor nearest to where the noise is coming from, the screw turned as many times as I wanted to do it for as it has obviously been over torqued when built and has stripped the hole.
Has anyone on here got suggestions for a product that will fill the existing hole and allow me to re-fit the screw please?
When we get back, I am going to check every single fixing possible.
Thanks in advance.
BnB

Use a drill and fit a wood dowel with glue leave it to dry then cut back the excess flush..

 

[ianp]

Mine is 20 years old and in the £30 bracket . It cost more than my first flat but a 1/4 of my last house.

But it's quality built .

What features and aspects of it make a 'quality' vehicle to you that other similar vehicles don't have ?

 

[ianp]

I suppose it's relative when you live in the South East and a very small starter home is over £300k it makes Motorhomes look reasonable.

Mmmm 'reasonable' is also a very subjective term.....in 20 years your 1/4 million pound Motorhome will be but a small 'bump' away from being converted in to dog food tins whereas your 'small ' starter home will last for another 50 to a 100 years and be ever increasing in value as will the land it stands on.......

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[Northernraider]

What features and aspects of it make a 'quality' vehicle to you that other similar vehicles don't have ?

The general build quality is far superior to any van I've owned before.

It's not something you'd understand from me describing it to you. You'd have to look in and around the vehicle to actually appreciate it.

I've had frankia , hymer, burstner, mobilvetta , eura Mobil brands prior to this Niesmann bischoff, my parents had eldiss, swift, autotrail, autosleeper, Ci, Bailey. My sisters had liaka and now autocruise.


So a good selection

This one is far superior quality of build . The construction alone is completely different

 

[Brains]

A friend of mine worked on Teesport and we got loads of packing wood used for coco beans (cacao) my god it was good stuff. The amount of terrace houses in thornaby that myself and my dad used in the refurbishment really shouldn't be mentioned.

The timber used to support the cargo in the ships holds is called 'Dunnage'.

It's not used nearly as much today as it was from the 1930's to the 1990's, as ships now have squarer holds and most non bulk or bagged cargo arrives in containers.

There used to be a big business in the UK ports selling Dunnage, my father used to run a ship repair yard in what today is the London Docklands.
They would retain all dunnage, sometimes they got tons of the stuff, and then auction it off every month or so, with employees getting first dibs, and the money going into the works canteen.

I bought a mid terrace house a few years back with a spring in the floor, so I knew the floor joists had gone.
When we pulled up the boards, we found every single floor joist, from front door to back door, was unique.
Obviously all originally made from Dunnage.

 

[Scotsblood]

I think we forget sometimes that buyer expectations and 'demands' are one reason we see issues and I see a direct relationship to overall weight and the 3.5t barrier.

Every item we 'expect to see' in a van above and beyond the actual shell eats into the useable payload. If you read reviews you see the 'you would expect to see in a van costing £XX' quite often when features are absent.

A strong shell and internal structures that give the impression of solidity inevitably weighs more. The expectation of lots of 'features' gives either a van incapable of remaining under the 3.5t or an impossibly low payload. The alternative, a van above 3.5t takes it out of many buyers possibilities as not everyone can get C1 entitlement even if wanted.

Without a reduction in weight in the basic structures the race to have vans with the most features is bound to fail, and that is pounced upon by reviewers and buyers when 'missing' items and features are identified.

At least some manufacturers are starting to give weight estimates of the factory 'options' available, but how many of us would know a 4m Thule Omnistor 5200 takes 28kg out of the payload as a dealer fit option?

 

[herald_400rl]

I think we forget sometimes that buyer expectations and 'demands' are one reason we see issues and I see a direct relationship to overall weight and the 3.5t barrier.

Every item we 'expect to see' in a van above and beyond the actual shell eats into the useable payload. If you read reviews you see the 'you would expect to see in a van costing £XX' quite often when features are absent.

A strong shell and internal structures that give the impression of solidity inevitably weighs more. The expectation of lots of 'features' gives either a van incapable of remaining under the 3.5t or an impossibly low payload. The alternative, a van above 3.5t takes it out of many buyers possibilities as not everyone can get C1 entitlement even if wanted.

Without a reduction in weight in the basic structures the race to have vans with the most features is bound to fail, and that is pounced upon by reviewers and buyers when 'missing' items and features are identified.

At least some manufacturers are starting to give weight estimates of the factory 'options' available, but how many of us would know a 4m Thule Omnistor 5200 takes 28kg out of the payload as a dealer fit option?

We sometimes travel with a full water tank - that's 100kg extra on its own.

 

[Scotsblood]

We sometimes travel with a full water tank - that's 100kg extra on its own.

And if you've got a full fuel tank not 90%, have leveling ramps, grip mats, chairs, more than a single full gas bottle (total weight 14kg), the driver and passenger weigh more than the MiRO allowance and the payload is already below 300kg you can understand how many 3.5t vans are significantly overweight even with manufacturers 'lightening' building techniques!

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[bobnick]

If i have learnt one thing about buying MHs, never buy cheap, cause they are not.
Having said that my cheap one was the only one i could find with a layout we wanted.

 

[HugoBNB]

Use a drill and fit a wood dowel with glue leave it to dry then cut back the excess flush..

Thanks. It appears to be a composite floor. I was thinking a out filling the existing hole with resin and then refitting the screw.

 

[herald_400rl]

And if you've got a full fuel tank not 90%, have leveling ramps, grip mats, chairs, more than a single full gas bottle (total weight 14kg), the driver and passenger weigh more than the MiRO allowance and the payload is already below 300kg you can understand how many 3.5t vans are significantly overweight even with manufacturers 'lightening' building techniques!

Yep. Went round lincoln show with some friends and they liked the ~7m+ vans. I pleaded with them to make sure it's at least 3800kg or up-ratable.
Fortunately, with ours being older it's base-weight is less so we have a ~700kg payload with a 3.5t plate.

 

[rosalan]

One of the signs of a ‘quality’ van, seems to be the lack of right hand corners and kitchen quality panels. The more rounded surfaces, the more expensive the build.

 

[Abgs]

Our 2023 has now done just shy of 12k miles. Creaks and rattles are starting to rear their heads. It was silent when we got it. The dealer did next to nothing to help apart from saying that "motorhomes do flex a bit." The front dashboard Cowell, the bit that bridges the Sprinter dashboard to the windscreen has developed a fair old creak. So, sitting on an aire with nothing to do, I got my tool kit out. All of the self-tapping screws beneath the windscreen blind had a good half-turn in them. The blind runners a good quarter on either side. So, having found this, I set about sorting the squeaking from the fifth seat. On the screw into the floor nearest to where the noise is coming from, the screw turned as many times as I wanted to do it for as it has obviously been over torqued when built and has stripped the hole.
Has anyone on here got suggestions for a product that will fill the existing hole and allow me to re-fit the screw please?
When we get back, I am going to check every single fixing possible.
Thanks in advance.
BnB

I'm preempting these on my new MLt after having had two Hymers previously. I'm working my way around the van checking every cupboard and piece of trim. It is quite shocking where pennies are pinched by the big manufacturers.

That said my Carthago was about 98% rattle free and that didn't change of 13,000 miles of ownership. If Carthago did their version of the MLt on the AWD Mercedes chassis I'd buy it.

A pack of these from Amazon, some velcro and a small sheet of sound deadening foam live in the on-board tool-kit!

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[bobnick]

Plenty of these in ours.

 

[HugoBNB]

I'm preempting these on my new MLt after having had two Hymers previously. I'm working my way around the van checking every cupboard and piece of trim. It is quite shocking where pennies are pinched by the big manufacturers.

That said my Carthago was about 98% rattle free and that didn't change of 13,000 miles of ownership. If Carthago did their version of the MLt on the AWD Mercedes chassis I'd buy it.

A pack of these from Amazon, some velcro and a small sheet of sound deadening foam live in the on-board tool-kit!

View attachment 958564

The most annoying creak we have is the one across the entirety of the front of the windscreen. Nipping the screws made a big difference, but it has stopped it. I think the only way I am going to sort it is to strip our the entire bit between the Mercedes dash and the front windscreen. This will involve removing the vertical windscreen blind. If there are any learned folk on here who have done this, I would welcome their comments.
Safe and happy travels.

 

[akadingbat]

I am a member of a Facebook group from people converting VWCrafters because I did my own conversion as I had a very specific design in mind. I have to say in that group there are some beautiful conversions all properly done to a super standard and good ones come up for sale from time to time so it is worth looking at some of those, the good ones get all the habitation/gas checks etc.

 

[mohawkman]

I have had Autotrails for 21 years. The main problems i have had & still do is the short screws that they insist on using on hard life hinges etc . Go to push the bed half back and it comes to a juddering stop because a short screw used on the runners has come out only a fraction but enough. My present one is a 2016 Mohawk and frankly I cant find anything to replace it with.

 

[Sticky Biscuit]

Recently been looking at new motorhomes, especially Auto trail excel range.
However, after popping to a dealer I was really shocked at the build quality.

We all know that these things aren't cheap, why should we accept shoddy build quality on something 65k +.
The fabric window surrounds had fallen off in the first one l looked at the glue had become detached from a crappy bit of wood which was used to attach the surround to the wall.on a brand-new van, checked another and the plastic sheet around the sunroof had also become detached...glue again on another crappy bit of wood.

Seats poppers on a bit of elastic to keep them upright were positioned so that seat fabric was constantly under stress..it will rip the seat material eventually.
Checked under the seat cushion to find cheap bits of wood screwed together to make the seat base.... really.....65k +

Cheap shelves on plastic clips in cupboards.... bits of trim with rough-cut edges.....it goes on.
4 mm thick shelves to hold what....a sock????

These are brand-new vans

Is it me, or do manufacturers just not care as long as they sell and people are left sorting shoddy workmanship.
Look long and hard when buying a new van.

I was really shocked and disappointed at what I found.

I think that Adria have a good build let down by water pipe connections and some design faults...

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[Kups]

I think that Adria have a good build let down by water pipe connections and some design faults...

Yes they are we've had 4 of them. The water pipe connectors are annoying. To save a euro or two, Adria install poor quality connectors and the owner then suffers when they break. Chasing the bottom line again.

 

[Gozzie11]

Why not look at a used German van ours has lots of quality over 20 years old,and our previous van was still like new with 87000 on the clock.

We had a brand new Burstner, had nothing but build quality problems and the final straw was 50% damp after a year!!! So got rid! My brother in law also had a brand new Burstner and has had nothing but continuous problems also with damp!!! German vans are no better or worse IMHO!!!!

 

[Garry - June]

I have an interesting story on build quality... going up the motorway last year to the Lincoln show our front electric windscreen shutter gave a bang and dropped down to its emergency stop points.... gave us a hell of a fright... the motor still whirred when the switch was pressed but nothing happened... so contacted our sole dealership in Newark and said it needed repair, only to be told....
"Sorry Sir they are not a repair item we will have to order you in a whole new shutter/blind assembly".. "Oh OK i said but surely it might be something simple"... "No sorry Sir we don't repair that equipment.. I will have to order a complete unit from Germany... that we be approx £1600 to get for you.
So being really cheesed off at that and not willing to give in to that sheer exploitation I felt, I spent two days dismantling all the panels and surrounds to get at the unit and operating mechanism, and what did i find?

When the van was built and the electric roller mechanism was installed the ends had to be located in square brackets fixed to the side of the van.. they should be fixed/held in place by split pins... lo and behold some bright spark had neglected to fit the split pin in the motor end .. the mechanism had worked loose over time and it had dropped out with a bang creating the whole problem..
I replaced the missing 20p split pin, put everything back together and its worked perfectly ever since.
I have since always wondered if the dealership would have found and admitted this and only charged me for the 20p repair or just pulled it all out and charged me the £1600 for the new unit..

 

[ianp]

I have an interesting story on build quality... going up the motorway last year to the Lincoln show our front electric windscreen shutter gave a bang and dropped down to its emergency stop points.... gave us a hell of a fright... the motor still whirred when the switch was pressed but nothing happened... so contacted our sole dealership in Newark and said it needed repair, only to be told....
"Sorry Sir they are not a repair item we will have to order you in a whole new shutter/blind assembly".. "Oh OK i said but surely it might be something simple"... "No sorry Sir we don't repair that equipment.. I will have to order a complete unit from Germany... that we be approx £1600 to get for you.
So being really cheesed off at that and not willing to give in to that sheer exploitation I felt, I spent two days dismantling all the panels and surrounds to get at the unit and operating mechanism, and what did i find?

When the van was built and the electric roller mechanism was installed the ends had to be located in square brackets fixed to the side of the van.. they should be fixed/held in place by split pins... lo and behold some bright spark had neglected to fit the split pin in the motor end .. the mechanism had worked loose over time and it had dropped out with a bang creating the whole problem..
I replaced the missing 20p split pin, put everything back together and its worked perfectly ever since.
I have since always wondered if the dealership would have found and admitted this and only charged me for the 20p repair or just pulled it all out and charged me the £1600 for the new unit..

I think you know the answer to that really don't you.........

 

[ontheroadagain]

Yes they are we've had 4 of them. The water pipe connectors are annoying. To save a euro or two, Adria install poor quality connectors and the owner then suffers when they break.

The problem doesn't appear to happen so much on Adrias manufactured since 2021/2022.
Although they still appear to use the same Reich fittings, there was some talk about a faulty batch being used around 2019/2020.

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