Deals mot garages and other fatherless persons.

[Northernraider]

Citizen's Advice say take him (dealer) to court if he doesn't cough up.
Dealer's web site says he builds motorhomes, buys and sells, and knows how to find the right van for his customers. Over 10 years experience etc etc. He is not the sweet innocent he makes out. Letter of intent sent.

Been looking up past mots. The same garage has mot'd it for the last 7 years.
2012 Pass Front radiator mounting corroded and holed Chassis slightly corroded offside front (advisories).
2013 Pass slight hole in both front points (advisory).
2014 Fail Offside inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion adversely affects braking or steering.
Passes same day
2015 PassFront suspension component mounting prescribed area corroded but not considered excessive.
2016 Pass Nearside and offside jacking points corroded (advisory).
2017 Fail Nearside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering.
Front vehicle structure has excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength.
Passes 2 days later. with 1 hours labour.


2018 (my mot) fails on all of the above, which have not been rectified

How can a garage that looks after an owner's vehicle find so many faults and not fix them? Dodgy mots all round I would say. I shall be phoning DVSA tomorrow.

If I go down, I will go down fighting. This is not right.

Going by that I hate to say it but the dealer may not be at fault.

It looks like the mot tester and garage are crap and likely the guy who owned it in that time has been friendly with the tester and the tester has been very lenient.

Possibly traded in to the dealer who may well have experience selling motorhomes but not actually have a clue when it comes to the mechanics etc

That's not uncommon ...many dealers havent a clue about that stuff they are just good salesmen.

I'd be inclined to report the garage that's done the mot it might not be the first report made against them

 

[John Mee]

I am going to report the garage to DVSA tomorrow.

The dealer specialises in cheaper vehicles and you can't tell me he always buys blind taking the sellers word for everything. He builds them for christs sake!

He's going to court and win or lose he will find his name all over his local papers.

CA reckon it's down to him.

 

[Northernraider]

I am going to report the garage to DVSA tomorrow.

The dealer specialises in cheaper vehicles and you can't tell me he always buys blind taking the sellers word for everything. He builds them for christs sake!

He's going to court and win or lose he will find his name all over his local papers.

CA reckon it's down to him.

Yep it's quite possible I'm just saying that if he took the van in with an existing mot he could use that as a get out of jail clause.

Now if he put the mot on it that would be different but it's difficult to prove that he knew how bad it was.

The mot station on the other hand are aware of 7 years of corrosion and like you say to have a same day pass and another after an hours labour is suspicious at least.

But good luck with it all I hope you get somewhere as that is a disgusting amount of corrosion

 

[Barclaybasher]

Agree with Tam, the trail of corrosion recorded on the MOTs over such a period points to the previous owner and MOT station rather than the dealer as being the problem.

The dealer and yourself took the MOT as a sign that the vehicle was at least roadworthy - clearly it hasn't been for some years with the problems just covered up

 

[hilldweller]

If I go down, I will go down fighting. This is not right.

That's the spirit. You have so much on your side, don't do anything silly, keep calm, and screw the b&&&&&&&d.

Be careful, I saw a botched job dispute, for a £16,000 machine, end up with £250,000 legal costs because both sided got carried away.

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[Wildbill]

The op is a very brave man I have taken on sum jobs in my time but I think this would probably reduced me to a quivering heap.
There agene I might have ben up for the challenge
bill

 

[Wildbill]

I just am lost for words...

me to that's one hell of a challenge
bill

 

[Wildbill]

View attachment 268411View attachment 268412View attachment 268413View attachment 268414View attachment 268411 View attachment 268411

Pleas do post some picks when its finished if my subs havent run out by then
bill

 

[gus-lopez]

At least with the vws you could cut out and replace the complete sections so you ended up with a practically new shell.

Like Triggers broom Reminds me of a stunning one with no interior in North deb¡von & bloke was driving it in to the garage sat on a tyre. I asked how much was original as everything appeared new & he said front bulkhead.

I have a 1991 Eriba on a Renault Trafic base and a 2001 A Class on a Ducato Maxi base

I have an '89 ducato which is like it left the factory underneath & cab is more or less the same.

Vosa have declared previously unseen corrosion can suddenly appear to the eye in such a short period and will not entertain
any complaints after that period,

& they wonder why everyone hates them

I have met quite a few over the years that pass vehicles that haven't even entered the mot station.

Reminds me of the lady I had here house sitting in 2014. She had a Transit pvc. Said the footwells needed repairs . I said I'd do them when I eventually returned , which I did.
That was when I noticed that the vehicle was taxed ?
Having been told previously that she'd exited the UK 4 years previously I had a look online which showed a lovely clean mot every year .

 

[maxi77]

Agree with Tam, the trail of corrosion recorded on the MOTs over such a period points to the previous owner and MOT station rather than the dealer as being the problem.

The dealer and yourself took the MOT as a sign that the vehicle was at least roadworthy - clearly it hasn't been for some years with the problems just covered up

The dealer advertises himself not as a trader but a builder and expert. He is also the person the buyer has a legal contract with and has sold something which is not fit for purpose, that makes him in consumer law responsible. He of course can then try to go back to the person who sold the van to him. He sold it it is his problem.

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[Northernraider]

The dealer advertises himself not as a trader but a builder and expert. He is also the person the buyer has a legal contract with and has sold something which is not fit for purpose, that makes him in consumer law responsible. He of course can then try to go back to the person who sold the van to him. He sold it it is his problem.

Builder =converter

I bet he does nothing mechanical and probably took that van in as a trade in.

He sold it with 12 months mot and the op has already accepted £500 from him as means of compensation.

I hope the op has luck getting somewhere but I doubt it will be from the trader

 

[Barclaybasher]

The dealer advertises himself not as a trader but a builder and expert. He is also the person the buyer has a legal contract with and has sold something which is not fit for purpose, that makes him in consumer law responsible. He of course can then try to go back to the person who sold the van to him. He sold it it is his problem.

Maybe we owners (and dealers) should actually inspect the state of the underside of our vehicles - clearly we can't rely on MOT inspectors

As for blaming the dealer - it's clear from the MOT records that problems with rust were recognised years before and 'dealt with'.............clearly not

.

 

[treetops1]

It’s staggerinly inept to say the least. Heads need to roll .

 

[mfw]

I believe an independant vehicle inspection irrespective of whether you buy from a garage or privately is a safer option - there are too many dodgy people out there - i always get under vehicle to check for corrosion anyway - but bolt on and off parts are fairly easily replaceable and do wear out or have excessive play - chassis corrosion is a very costly error to make and certainly not easy to repair cheaply

 

[John Mee]

I have always been guilty of trusting people. This is the worst and most costly case of trust being betrayed. I feel sick and stupid in equal measures as this van represents our hopes of affordable holidays at the cost of our savings.

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[mfw]

I have always been guilty of trusting people. This is the worst and most costly case of trust being betrayed. I feel sick and stupid in equal measures as this van represents our hopes of affordable holidays at the cost of our savings.

I do feel for you getting caught on vehicle as everyone else does

Hadrian panels or they may now be called autopanels do repair sections for vehicles so you may be able to buy a repair section or sections which would be better option of possibly just patching up

 

[chaser]

I have always been guilty of trusting people. This is the worst and most costly case of trust being betrayed. I feel sick and stupid in equal measures as this van represents our hopes of affordable holidays at the cost of our savings.

i wouldnt get to involved with courts, because its liable to cost a damn sight more, you might shame both the dealer and the mot place but i cant see you getting any compensation

 

[The Wino]

I'm sorry about the problem you have but the mot history tends to suggest what I always thought is true in general once there is chassis corrosion it tends to recur but worse

 

[maxi77]

Maybe we owners (and dealers) should actually inspect the state of the underside of our vehicles - clearly we can't rely on MOT inspectors

As for blaming the dealer - it's clear from the MOT records that problems with rust were recognised years before and 'dealt with'.............clearly not

.

Quite clearly we all have some responsibility over the choices we make of what to buy, how ever the law does state that it is the sellers responsibility when trading as a business that the product is fit for the purpose for which it is sold. That is an absolute, no wriggle room. Even if the retailer relies on some one elses inspection they retain responsibility. In this case the retailer apparently claims to be expert in this product so has little excuse for selling a product which is not fit for purpose and may be also guilty of selling an unsafe product a criminal offence.

 

[John Mee]

Maxi77 this is my belief. Citizens Advice back this up too. I am guilty of not having the vehicle checked by a technician, but this does not excuse the dealer for selling a dangerous and unsafe vehicle.

If something had given way and I had crashed, causing injury to myself, or heaven forbid someone else, who would have been held liable? Just what is the point of an mot? Is a dealer responsible for checking service history and mot history?

By the way I was going to contact DVSA today - forgot it was Saturday!

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[dabhand]

It might be best to call it how it appears, you have suffered because of other people’s sharp practice and perhaps because of your trust and/or inexperience. It’s a piece of crap, I wouldn’t be wanting to drive that anywhere! put it in the auctions and hope for the best and put the whole thing down to experience, walk away, it’s only going to cost more time and money and in my opinion just forget about taking anyone to court, it’s a lengthy, costly time consuming experience, we’ve all made mistakes, you won’t make that mistake again! Harsh but true imho.
OR
pay a fortune for extensive repairs, only to repeat the process when the rot reappears

 

[Wildbill]

My advice is suck it up get it fixed and learn from it when parting with your hard got money take sumone with you who is willing to get on ther back and poke and prod
Bill

 

[John Mee]

I just don't have the money to throw away. Sharp practice?

 

[airwave]

Been looking up past mots. The same garage has mot'd it for the last 7 years.
2012 Pass Front radiator mounting corroded and holed Chassis slightly corroded offside front (advisories).
2013 Pass slight hole in both front points (advisory).
2014 Fail Offside inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion adversely affects braking or steering.
Passes same day
2015 PassFront suspension component mounting prescribed area corroded but not considered excessive.
2016 Pass Nearside and offside jacking points corroded (advisory).
2017 Fail Nearside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering.
Front vehicle structure has excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength.
Passes 2 days later. with 1 hours labour.

Sorry , and you still brought this vehicle . Now don't get me wrong here , i'm truly shocked at the state of this thing , but before anything else now , i check the mot history , and personally had i seen this little lot , i would have run a mile . This is showing serious issues with the front end , and once the metal worm has a hold , which quite clearly it has , serious money is gonna be required , to put it right . To be blunt , any other vehicle would be a write off , only the value saves this one , and with a history like that , that's diminished .

Maybe we owners (and dealers) should actually inspect the state of the underside of our vehicles

That is exactly what we should be doing , i own a 2000 , ducato , it is the most expensive banger , i've ever brought , and let's face it , that's exactly what it is . 75 percent of my inspection was under the van . Chassis , suspension , even the fuel tank , and numerous other bit's , before i got hands on , in the engine bay . I've seen many post's telling people what to check , seldom is lifting the bonnet mentioned , god forbid looking underneath , just check the windows open , and the doors lock . The fact is the vehicle structure is far more important , only seconded by the engine , chances are the new owner with a little coaching , will be able to sort the windows and locks out . Yet these bits are far more expensive to repair and will often need someone in the know to put it right , at however much an hour they choose to charge . Without them , you have little more than a useless chunk of aluminium sat on the drive .
I really don't know how many times this has to be said , an mot is not a certificate declaring the vehicle road worthy . It only tells you , that for one hour of the date noted , a competent person (questionable at times) has inspected it and deemed it safe . That's it , it says nothing about the other 8760 hours of the year . Service history is even worst , often just a stamp there's no guarantee of any actually work been done . Buying a second hand vehicle is now a nightmare , there are many products on the market , that enable people to bodge a motor ready for off loading . A proper inspection is vital , every single one of my vehicles has undergone a serious inspection . The recent addition of an mot history check , is a really useful aid to vehicle purchases , but even so , at the end of the day , it is just that , an aid . It only helps to build a picture of just how well the vehicle has been looked after .
Now i can only echo Broken Link Removed 's comments , regarding mot corrosion inspection , i pulled an examiner , whilst he was checking one of my vehicles . I told him to hit the frigging thing , not tickle it , to which he answered he was not allowed . He was shocked to discover i had already done so , to which he said , well if it passes that inspection , then you have nothing to worry about with an mot corrosion inspection . Metal will rust on both sides , and if it's a box section , your screwed . Take it from me , it will be quietly rusting away outta sight . Rust protection products will generally only hide this issue , a small few will slow it down , none will prevent or even stop it . Yes my duke has undergone the same treatment , twice , and though it failed it's first mot this year with rear brake imbalance (yes i got caught) , it now sports a new ticket as of wednesday last week .

My little suzuki van only this morning has also passed .

 

[Northernraider]

I just don't have the money to throw away. Sharp practice?

You don't have to throw it away. If the guy you have welding it is a good welder and he completely cuts out all rotten metal and replaces with good and then you seal it properly inside and out it will be good for a good few years. But you have to do it right and not just patch it up as it will just got again. I've done worse vehicles than that buy I had the fact I could buy the proper repair panels to rebuild it

If done right then you'll have a decent enough van and then learn from the experience.

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[Northernraider]

Sorry , and you still brought this vehicle . Now don't get me wrong here , i'm truly shocked at the state of this thing , but before anything else now , i check the mot history , and personally had i seen this little lot , i would have run a mile . This is showing serious issues with the front end , and once the metal worm has a hold , which quite clearly it has , serious money is gonna be required , to put it right . To be blunt , any other vehicle would be a write off , only the value saves this one , and with a history like that , that's diminished

He only checked the history recently he has owned the van over a year

He is by no means the first to have got caught out with this. There's loads of people out there that still don't know about mot history checks etc and many people who simply have a low budget to buy a vehicle and perhaps don't have or know anyone who has the knowledge to check them out properly.

It's a learning curve that many do


For example I've been asked to find a cheap car for a friend as a Christmas gift for her son as he's just passed his test

But he's a typical 18yr old and fussy so some of the cars they've been sending me links for to view for them I've not even bothered because they are buckets.

They don't know anything about vehicles he just looks at the outside and if it has street cred and she just looks to see if it's under her £1000 budget.

If I see more than 2 fails or the same advisories in a row I just completely dismiss it.

Knowing that stuff comes from experience and sadly thousands of vehicles out there are sold everyday and folk have no idea what they are buying

 

[bellabee]

I have always been guilty of trusting people. This is the worst and most costly case of trust being betrayed. I feel sick and stupid in equal measures as this van represents our hopes of affordable holidays at the cost of our savings.

I'm really sorry to hear this. It is clear that you have been deceived by somebody, and it does always pays to check things out thoroughly, but I hope the whole episode doesn't make you cynical.
I do hope that you find a satisfactory outcome, and that your hopes of affordable holidays are finally realised.

 

[airwave]

He only checked the history recently

Ah now , if that's the case i missed that . I was under the impression he checked it at point of sale or shortly after ,

so for that i do apologise ,

however i'm afraid i stand by my remaining comments . I don't think i've ever seen anything quite so bad , it looks to be a total front end restoration job as opposed to a repair . That is a serious undertaking and is not only gonna be expensive , but time consuming , i could go further here , but i'm choosing not too .

I don't change vehicles often as a rule , probably why i've got so many . The second hand market is a minefield , and i certainly don't envy your task , all for under a grand , nah , they are about , but your buying specific , so there's a high risk of fail . I've owned my car for the last 10 year , though 24 years old , it's used every day and cost me 400 notes , it owes me nowt . The little van is now 13 , it's used as back up for the car , which is a different purpose to when i purchased it , however i'm considering another , it's certainly not for sale at this point , The motorhome is 18 , and speaks for itself . My recent purchase , a skyteam dax , is yet to have it's first birthday . They were all brought for a purpose , and though it was originally planned to off load 2 of them , other plans have changed , so i don't think this will happen anytime soon , they may even remain till i quit driving .

 

[John Mee]

I've been buying and selling cars since I was 17. I've fixed all my cars and motorbikes myself. I've bought a few that needed more work than I realised. We looked online for a van that suited our needs, chose this model and waited for one to turn up. At that time there were none about, or they were near £20,000. This one came up in Scotland. I live in Cornwall! We got excited . We got too excited. Mistake 1. I flew up with a one way ticket. Mistake 2. It was starting to get dark when I got there. Mistake 3. I checked out the interior and all was great. I had brought a torch with me and I had as good a look underneath the van as best I could. I took it for a test drive. All seemed good. The van was parked at the home of the dealer (no ramps - coincidence or planned?). I had a cup of tea, chatted to his wife (who had brought me from the airport) I talked to the dealer. I fell for the smooth talking combination of talk from the wife and the lying bastard dealer! Mistake 4. I thought dealer's had to follow consumer law. Mistake 5. I disregarded all I have learned over the years and trusted someone selling me a vehicle. A B&B, daylight, a clear head and I wouldn't have made this awful mistake.

My Welder. He is a good bloke (please god, if you exist!) he knows what he's talking about. He will cut back everything to good metal. He has all the gear and products to make it as good and last for a good few years. He is fitting it in around his bread and butter work so that he can keep the cost down. He'll still get a good holiday out of it!

I showed him this youtube video that I found, which gave me hope. He was not impressed and said it was pretty shit work and that he would do an infinitely better job.





The dealer has not replied to my threat of legal action. He has a week before I send him official intention to sue for compensation. I emailed DVSA to report the garage. I have had no reply yet. I fully intend to get my pound of flesh, one way or another. These bastards need to be brought to heal.

 

[chaser]

I've been buying and selling cars since I was 17. I've fixed all my cars and motorbikes myself. I've bought a few that needed more work than I realised. We looked online for a van that suited our needs, chose this model and waited for one to turn up. At that time there were none about, or they were near £20,000. This one came up in Scotland. I live in Cornwall! We got excited . We got too excited. Mistake 1. I flew up with a one way ticket. Mistake 2. It was starting to get dark when I got there. Mistake 3. I checked out the interior and all was great. I had brought a torch with me and I had as good a look underneath the van as best I could. I took it for a test drive. All seemed good. The van was parked at the home of the dealer (no ramps - coincidence or planned?). I had a cup of tea, chatted to his wife (who had brought me from the airport) I talked to the dealer. I fell for the smooth talking combination of talk from the wife and the lying bastard dealer! Mistake 4. I thought dealer's had to follow consumer law. Mistake 5. I disregarded all I have learned over the years and trusted someone selling me a vehicle. A B&B, daylight, a clear head and I wouldn't have made this awful mistake.

My Welder. He is a good bloke (please god, if you exist!) he knows what he's talking about. He will cut back everything to good metal. He has all the gear and products to make it as good and last for a good few years. He is fitting it in around his bread and butter work so that he can keep the cost down. He'll still get a good holiday out of it!

I showed him this youtube video that I found, which gave me hope. He was not impressed and said it was pretty shit work and that he would do an infinitely better job.





The dealer has not replied to my threat of legal action. He has a week before I send him official intention to sue for compensation. I emailed DVSA to report the garage. I have had no reply yet. I fully intend to get my pound of flesh, one way or another. These bastards need to be brought to heal.

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