Dealer Supplied Vans - How different from the white van on the forecourt

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Prop

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Hi Went to the NEC walked around, found a van we liked at Globecar but they would not consider the modifications we wanted to the standard spec.

So we are now considering buying a new van and paying someone to convert it.

There a brand new Ducato on Autotrader from 25K to 30K + vat. Is there anything essentially different about the Ducatos's supplied by the Motorhome suppliers to these on Autotrader?
 
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Have a look at S&L Motorhomes if you haven't already seen them at the NEC. Superb build quality to your spec and I believe they have a couple of new base vehicles available.
 
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Prop said:
Hi Went to the NEC walked around, found a van we liked at Globecar but they would not consider the modifications we wanted to the standard spec.

So we are now considering buying a new van and paying someone to convert it.

There a brand new Ducato on Autotrader from 25K to 30K + vat. Is there anything essentially different about the Ducatos's supplied by the Motorhome suppliers to these on Autotrader?
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That sounds very cheap probably absolutely basic models, no air con, low power engine, manual box.
About 6 months ago I priced one up with a reasonable spec, Inc vat came out at 65k and I could have put over another 5k of extras on it.
 
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Prop said:
Hi Went to the NEC walked around, found a van we liked at Globecar but they would not consider the modifications we wanted to the standard spec.

So we are now considering buying a new van and paying someone to convert it.

There a brand new Ducato on Autotrader from 25K to 30K + vat. Is there anything essentially different about the Ducatos's supplied by the Motorhome suppliers to these on Autotrader?
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Yes, skeletal chassis' & panel vans for the major converters are imported specifically for the purpose and tend to be fitted on the production line with battery splitters and other techy gizmo's. Been that way since 2012.

25 - 30k + VAT will get you a very basic entry level vehicle, standard cab with a 140 engine on a manual gearbox and probably only in white & cheap wheel trims.

You'd be better looking at a bespoke converter and an alternate base vehicle, personally I'd go for Ford in Trend spec with either 130 or 170 with an auto box. 2023 Transit prices are dropping quickly as there's a revised MK8 for 2024.

Something like this:
www.autotrader.co.uk

2023 Grey Ford Transit 2.0 350 EcoBlue Trend Panel Van 5dr Diesel Manual RWD L3 H3 Euro 6 (s/s) (130 ps) for sale for £44,394 in Mountain Ash, Mid Glamorgan

Ford Transit 2.0 350 EcoBlue Trend Panel Van 5dr Diesel Manual RWD L3 H3 Euro 6 (s/s) (130 ps) for sale in Mountain Ash, Mid Glamorgan from Absolute Vans - Find your perfect van today with Auto Trader
www.autotrader.co.uk www.autotrader.co.uk

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Check out ’ car guru they have a brand new 2.2 movano van for £25000 +vat and it’s a Sevel body same as the Ducato/Boxer/Relay. It’s in Doncaster. I have tried to copy the link direct across but will not work 😝

looks reasonable and it’s the Sevel body same as the Ducato/ Boxer/Citroen Relay
 
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It seems to be an irritation to owners that the DVLA tend to categorise some bespoke conversions as a 'Van with windows'.
 
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Another issue, certainly for me anyway, would be the resale value of a conversion that’s not mainstream
When searching for a PVC I wouldn’t even look at a bespoke conversion as they were so variable in quality and spec
A mainstream van surely will hold its value better
 
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bubble63 said:
Another issue, certainly for me anyway, would be the resale value of a conversion that’s not mainstream
When searching for a PVC I wouldn’t even look at a bespoke conversion as they were so variable in quality and spec
A mainstream van surely will hold its value better
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Spot on

As they say you pay your money and take your choice but 5 years down the line I suspect we know where the money invested will have a better return.

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bubble63 said:
Another issue, certainly for me anyway, would be the resale value of a conversion that’s not mainstream
When searching for a PVC I wouldn’t even look at a bespoke conversion as they were so variable in quality and spec
A mainstream van surely will hold its value better
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That's very true and the reason our business failed even though each vehicle had full type approval and all panel vans were imported specifically for motor caravan use. Most of the small volume converters are tarred with the same brush regardless of craftmanship.

Ours were truly bespoke with full input from the purchaser even down to the edging trim. We finally gave up and I sold the templates to Dunc Wildman, again though it took a while for his brand to establish itself and only now has a network of dealers due to their parent company Rapido.

It's the same to some extent for the major players too. Potential buyers are first and foremost swayed by branding. I know a lot of PVC owners who steadfastly refused to even look at Auto Trail and went on to buy Roller Team & Benimar... which are built on the same production line in Grimsby.
 
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Prop said:
Hi Went to the NEC walked around, found a van we liked at Globecar
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If it’s the same dealer we spoke to last year then it could be a dealer issue? A Globcar Summit 640 was our number one choice but we were put off by the dealer. They didn’t know if a Truma aircon unit would fit in the bedroom roof area, could not fix a price and didn’t seem to know much about the product they were trying to sell. We’d seen a few at Der Freistaat in Germany and we seemed to know more about them than the dealer! Went for an Adria Twin in the end. It’s a pity as the Globecar is a lovely conversion.
 
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Soycd said:
If it’s the same dealer we spoke to last year then it could be a dealer issue? A Globcar Summit 640 was our number one choice but we were put off by the dealer. They didn’t know if a Truma aircon unit would fit in the bedroom roof area, could not fix a price and didn’t seem to know much about the product they were trying to sell. We’d seen a few at Der Freistaat in Germany and we seemed to know more about them than the dealer! Went for an Adria Twin in the end. It’s a pity as the Globecar is a lovely conversion.
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Not surprised most sales people in the Motorhome industry appear to be order takers and seem to have little knowledge of the product they sell.
 
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Jonno1103 said:
That's very true and the reason our business failed even though each vehicle had full type approval and all panel vans were imported specifically for motor caravan use. Most of the small volume converters are tarred with the same brush regardless of craftmanship.

Ours were truly bespoke with full input from the purchaser even down to the edging trim. We finally gave up and I sold the templates to Dunc Wildman, again though it took a while for his brand to establish itself and only now has a network of dealers due to their parent company Rapido.

It's the same to some extent for the major players too. Potential buyers are first and foremost swayed by branding. I know a lot of PVC owners who steadfastly refused to even look at Auto Trail and went on to buy Roller Team & Benimar... which are built on the same production line in Grimsby.
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Interesting. We bought a Wildax over a consort because a) the consort auto was only available with the super tech package and £7000 on top and b) I wanted a brand that people knew and would be easy to sell if need be
 
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Coolcats said:
Not surprised most sales people in the Motorhome industry appear to be order takers and seem to have little knowledge of the product they sell.
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True. We have been lucky in dealing with Hayes Leisure for many years and their intimate technical knowledge of the brand, and now Maple leisure, where James the director actually rolls up his sleeves to investigate an issue. Discussing things with both companies was always very interesting

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DuxDeluxe said:
True. We have been lucky in dealing with Hayes Leisure for many years and their intimate technical knowledge of the brand, and now Maple leisure, where James the director actually rolls up his sleeves to investigate an issue. Discussing things with both companies was always very interesting
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Nice to hear there is always an exception.
 
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What the dealers don't tell you is the discount they or you can get from the dealers if you buy a van from them.

Our Ducato Sportivo (160ps, AC, 7" media, converters socket, alloys, m&s tyres, spare, paint, fold flat mirrors, heated seats, lots of "bling" extras, single pax seat, pax airbags, leather bits) etc etc listed at £45k IIRC. We paid £25k OTR so 44.5% discount from list. that was just asking nicely.... That discount includes options - so when you ask for an option and the MH dealer shows you the price and you pay it (like I did on our 1st van) - the MH dealer makes a mint.

I'm on about 2020 pre covid, so discounts have changed substantially, but easy enough to find out by asking.
 
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bubble63 said:
Another issue, certainly for me anyway, would be the resale value of a conversion that’s not mainstream
When searching for a PVC I wouldn’t even look at a bespoke conversion as they were so variable in quality and spec
A mainstream van surely will hold its value better
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Can be very true and needs to be considered. Never DIY for a profit. Its cheaper to build and rarely makes money and sometimes a huge loss; whereas good brands can hold value and even increase.

That said, our first self build sold for £1k less than it cost us to buy/build and have 4y heavy use. The new owners had seen our online build and info and knew how it was built and what was considered, and hence they were happy to go with it over other vans.

It takes the right buyer. For sure, our current one after 3y and >200 nights is still "pristine" - and looking around 1-2yo vans at showrooms its holding together well! I'd prefer a self build built by a pedantic git who spent hours engineering it to last and not have any screwheads on show, than a "pro" whose factory built the entire thing in a few week and used stickers or caps to cover screwheads. Which one had more thought?

But yep, limited market but you do get exactly what you want. (along with a new set of tools :) )

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Before #vanlife and the pandemic, conversions were worth significantly less money than brand name motorhomes. Prices are still high, but they aren't as stupid as they were. So a conversion is likely to lose more money than a brand name model.

My first van was professionally converted by the previous owner. It had all the features, the furniture was good. But I later found out that the dinette seats and the wiring were both safety hazards. I would expect a name like Globecar to have well tested designs and not do that sketchy stuff I found under the skin.
 
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Guigsy said:
Before #vanlife and the pandemic, conversions were worth significantly less money than brand name motorhomes. Prices are still high, but they aren't as stupid as they were. So a conversion is likely to lose more money than a brand name model.

My first van was professionally converted by the previous owner. It had all the features, the furniture was good. But I later found out that the dinette seats and the wiring were both safety hazards. I would expect a name like Globecar to have well tested designs and not do that sketchy stuff I found under the skin.
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Conversion prices increased substantially when whole vehicle type approval was brought in. All PVC's were then given the same full classification as a coachbuilt & prices began to reflect this. We also saw a leap in the tech of thermal insulation, finally the humble panel van could reach Grade 3, and we saw a major introduction of underslung LPG tanks which increased internal storage space.

Beforehand PVC's were seen as a stepping stone - tent, trailer tent, campervan, PVC then finally A, B or C Class coachbuilt. Today they're simply an option to the point now where coachbuilders are heavily investing in narrow body homologation to compete with specific converters.

It's a myth that small converters don't have the buying power. We bought the Renault Master Sport from BSM for 12k below retail inc VAT which more than covered the cost of the conversion package & customer options supplied by Myriad.

On the whole bespoke builders who desire individual whole vehicle type approval build a far better product as each finished van is personally & thoroughly inspected. For the mainstream converters it's very different... all they need to do is submit photographic evidence of each build stage.

Conversion prices today are daylight robbery and for the larger groups it is the sector which creates the most profit.
 
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Prop said:
Hi Went to the NEC walked around, found a van we liked at Globecar but they would not consider the modifications we wanted to the standard spec.

So we are now considering buying a new van and paying someone to convert it.

There a brand new Ducato on Autotrader from 25K to 30K + vat. Is there anything essentially different about the Ducatos's supplied by the Motorhome suppliers to these on Autotrader?
Click to expand...

Fiat make the Ducato (series 8) the Citroen Relay, Peugeot Boxer and Vauxhall Movano on the same production line, becuase Stellantis Group own all those brands (and more besides) except afaik only the Fiat had the 2022 face lift to the dashboard, some suspension mods to improve ride comfort and the all important 9sp auto option.

There are some other subtle differences with the Ducato's that are imported for conversion by the known brands such as Swift, Elddis, Wildax etc etc, in that that have different wiring looms which are designed for all the extras that will be added during a camper conversion.
I know this because when I got my new 23my series 8 last March, I carried out quite a few mods of my own and found there are 'spare plugs' for auxiliary items such as solar, alarms, aux battery charging and 'other items' that would be a 'dealer fit'

So I think if you buy a 'standard' van intended for the builder/plumber or parcel delivery world, there will be differences, none of which are insurmountable to a competent auto electrician at a van conversion company, or a competent DIY van builder.
 
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If buying a van for conversion I'm fairly certain over 3500kg you can't buy one without a Taco also some have speed limiters. I think you can get them disabled.
 
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If you do have a van converted, confirm what the weight and payload will be. And make the figures a condition of sale. Many converters are maybe not as considerate as they should be on their design. Ceramic tiles, solid wood panelling and twin TVs may look bling, but you might be left with a van that's legally undrivable.

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Steve-N said:
Fiat make the Ducato (series 8) the Citroen Relay, Peugeot Boxer and Vauxhall Movano on the same production line, becuase Stellantis Group own all those brands (and more besides) except afaik only the Fiat had the 2022 face lift to the dashboard, some suspension mods to improve ride comfort and the all important 9sp auto option.

There are some other subtle differences with the Ducato's that are imported for conversion by the known brands such as Swift, Elddis, Wildax etc etc, in that that have different wiring looms which are designed for all the extras that will be added during a camper conversion.
I know this because when I got my new 23my series 8 last March, I carried out quite a few mods of my own and found there are 'spare plugs' for auxiliary items such as solar, alarms, aux battery charging and 'other items' that would be a 'dealer fit'

So I think if you buy a 'standard' van intended for the builder/plumber or parcel delivery world, there will be differences, none of which are insurmountable to a competent auto electrician at a van conversion company, or a competent DIY van builder.
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There's a further refresh for 2024 which some are calling the Series 9 but again it's just another mini facelift to the now 16 year old design.
 
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Steve-N said:
Fiat make the Ducato (series 8) the Citroen Relay, Peugeot Boxer and Vauxhall Movano on the same production line, becuase Stellantis Group own all those brands (and more besides) except afaik only the Fiat had the 2022 face lift to the dashboard, some suspension mods to improve ride comfort and the all important 9sp auto option.

There are some other subtle differences with the Ducato's that are imported for conversion by the known brands such as Swift, Elddis, Wildax etc etc, in that that have different wiring looms which are designed for all the extras that will be added during a camper conversion.
I know this because when I got my new 23my series 8 last March, I carried out quite a few mods of my own and found there are 'spare plugs' for auxiliary items such as solar, alarms, aux battery charging and 'other items' that would be a 'dealer fit'

So I think if you buy a 'standard' van intended for the builder/plumber or parcel delivery world, there will be differences, none of which are insurmountable to a competent auto electrician at a van conversion company, or a competent DIY van builder.
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That’s interesting normally a manufacturer just has one loom, and then charge a fortune for extras an example is my Lotus Evora did not have folding door mirrors and was a £300 extra, I purchased a new mirror door switch (it was a Ford switch) for folding door mirrors for £10 and hey presto the mirrors started folding saving £290. Somethings the loom has the connection but a firmware update is required to make the feature work.
 
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Steve-N said:
I know this because when I got my new 23my series 8 last March, I carried out quite a few mods of my own and found there are 'spare plugs' for auxiliary items such as solar, alarms, aux battery charging and 'other items' that would be a 'dealer fit'
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Can I just clarify which van you bought that came with the plugs for aux items and if you had to order anything particular?
Thanks
Paul
 
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Prop , I do not know if it would be any help or if you have seen it , but there is a Fiat Ducato converters and up fitters manual, that can be down loaded , in the resources section , Manuals for Motorhome stuff (page 3 )
 
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GeoffnDee said:
Prop , I do not know if it would be any help or if you have seen it , but there is a Fiat Ducato converters and up fitters manual, that can be down loaded , in the resources section , Manuals for Motorhome stuff (page 3 )
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I had not , thanks will look now.
 
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