Dartmoor bye law proposals - last chance to comment.

[Basildog]

The remit of the national park is clearly laid down,
The primary purpose is to conserve and enhance Dartmoor National Park’s natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage
They are also required to promote opportunities for the public to understand and enjoy the special qualities of Dartmoor National Park.

The bylaws are drawn up with a view to allowing people to enjoy the moor, but having regard for the primary responsibility of conservation. If people treated the moor with more respect the bylaws wouldn't need to be so draconian

That’s the polite way of saying that they can only see as far as the end of their noses (with glasses )
Most government / public sector / corporate bodies are increasingly unable to think outside the box in even the tiniest of ways

 

[Carl and Jane]

In case any members would like to comment on these proposals, consultation is open until 1st November. There is a section on Motorhomes parking overnight and sensible responses might help to further our cause. Other sections might also be of interest.

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[Googlebot]

Wow!

It’s like they want people to just float across and touch nothing.

 

[rangi]

The purpose of these authorities is to manage these areas whilst allowing access and use by the public. They seem to be simply banning everything and discouraging the public from accessing the area they are supposed to manage on their behalf. A simple ban everything culture is usually a sign of lack of imagination and a closed group who wishes to manage it for a very small group of users. The Authority is very important but it will only be successful if it has the support of the people it seeks to serve otherwise it becomes irrelevant and ignored.

Respect the countryside, or, stay away. You only have to look at Loch Lomand National Park to see the effect of abuse by "campers", fires lit at the base of trees Campers NOT taking their Rubbish away. The authorities there are fed up, and are taking action against the despoiling of the area by irresponsible campers, increasing warder/ranger patrols and hopefully issuing heavy fines.

So why should the Dartmoor authorities have to sit and suck it up?
No!, good on 'em!
They will only have to issue a few heavy fines for the message to get through.
As above, Respect the Countryside, or, Stay away!

 

[gus-lopez]

Wow!

It’s like they want people to just float across and touch nothing.

Basically,yes.

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[Stoosal]

Respect the countryside, or, stay away. You only have to look at Loch Lomand National Park to see the effect of abuse by "campers", fires lit at the base of trees Campers NOT taking their Rubbish away. The authorities there are fed up, and are taking action against the despoiling of the area by irresponsible campers, increasing warder/ranger patrols and hopefully issuing heavy fines.

So why should the Dartmoor authorities have to sit and suck it up?
No!, good on 'em!
They will only have to issue a few heavy fines for the message to get through.
As above, Respect the Countryside, or, Stay away!

Ah yes....you must be part of the ban everything brigade.....

I said nothing about disrespecting the area, nor those who live there.

The Authority has the job of managing the area, not banning activities which can allow people to enjoy it responsibly.

 

[82125]

done

 

[Silver-Fox]

As above, Respect the Countryside, or, Stay away!

Can I ask are you against wild camping in National Parks.

I’m talking about using a self contained vehicle and leaving no trace behind.

 

[rangi]

Ah yes....you must be part of the ban everything brigade.....

I said nothing about disrespecting the area, nor those who live there.

The Authority has the job of managing the area, not banning activities which can allow people to enjoy it responsibly.

No no no! Anyone can still take a ramble on the moor, some lovely walks there.

What I am against is, irresponsIble Camping! People lighting fires, Holding illegal "raves", leaving litter, beer cans, food waste ,broken Glass, staying in the laybys for a couple of weeks , emptying their cassettes in the bushes, feeding the ponies.

None of which respects the countryside, Yes walk on the Moor! keep your dog on a lead, don't allow it to bother stock, take your rubbish home with you, don't leave your portable BBQ smouldering on the ground, don't light fires, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK!!

If that makes me "one of the brigade that wants to ban everything!" Great! I'll wear that badge with pride!. I spent quite a lot of time tramping on the Moor in the Past, was there a few weeks ago just for a day trip and was disgusted with the litter piled high on the moor.

Respect the Countryside , OR, stay away!

Can I ask are you against wild camping in National Parks.

I’m talking about using a self contained vehicle and leaving no trace behind.

See reply above! . Tiz not the people that "leave no trace behind" unfortunately They are grouped in with the idiots that trash the place!

How do you differentiate? You drive past, there are say 3 m/hs parked up, the next day you notice the place has been trashed. Two responsible M/Hs 1 idiot! ALL ARE tarred with the same brush! Logical isn't it? You ban the lot! The good AND the bad!

 

[Googlebot]

How do you differentiate? You drive past, there are say 3 m/hs parked up, the next day you notice the place has been trashed. Two responsible M/Hs 1 idiot! ALL ARE tarred with the same brush! Logical isn't it? You ban the lot! The good AND the bad!

Personally, I would pick the litter up and put it down to a fact of life that some people are idiots.

If we followed the train of thought that said ban everything when you can’t differentiate who is to blame, then we wouldn’t be allowed to do anything, let alone wild camp.

The bit about not having a hammock hanging between trees, what about those who use a hammock as a bivvie for the night, have a 10k fine Sir….. It’s ridiculous.

They are our National Parks, ours, to enjoy, to camp in, to use. To ban certain things because some people can’t be responsible is a bit daft. We have football hooligans, we still have football…

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[mark49]

everything

No no no! Anyone can still take a ramble on the moor, some lovely walks there.

What I am against is, irresponsIble Camping! People lighting fires, Holding illegal "raves", leaving litter, beer cans, food waste ,broken Glass, staying in the laybys for a couple of weeks , emptying their cassettes in the bushes, feeding the ponies.

None of which respects the countryside, Yes walk on the Moor! keep your dog on a lead, don't allow it to bother stock, take your rubbish home with you, don't leave your portable BBQ smouldering on the ground, don't light fires, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK!!

If that makes me "one of the brigade that wants to ban everything!" Great! I'll wear that badge with pride!. I spent quite a lot of time tramping on the Moor in the Past, was there a few weeks ago just for a day trip and was disgusted with the litter piled high on the moor.

Respect the Countryside , OR, stay away!



See reply above! . Tiz not the people that "leave no trace behind" unfortunately They are grouped in with the idiots that trash the place!

How do you differentiate? You drive past, there are say 3 m/hs parked up, the next day you notice the place has been trashed. Two responsible M/Hs 1 idiot! ALL ARE tarred with the same brush! Logical isn't it? You ban the lot! The good AND the bad!

Almost nothing adds up there. I’ve witnessed dogs off leads up there so do we stop all dog walkers based on that logic?
I’ve also witnessed day trippers over filling obviously filled bins which then get blown away or dispersed somehow before bin pick ups,so by that logic do we ban all day trippers aswell.

 

[dash300]

I do understand some of the regulations in relation to shooting and animal worrying but many of the regulations appear to be designed to prevent people from peacefully lingering on the Moor and enjoying it. How about rather than regulating people away from the moor, being more proactive and accomodating and placing a few 24/48 hr Camperstops in suitable enclaves around the moor at a cost and let the Rangers who are already employed supervise it. This Country is rapidy turning into a regulated cancel regime, driven by vocal minority political activists.

 

[Stoosal]

If that makes me "one of the brigade that wants to ban everything!" Great! I'll wear that badge with pride!. I spent quite a lot of time tramping on the Moor in the Past, was there a few weeks ago just for a day trip and was disgusted with the litter piled high on the moor.

.....best ban yourself from walking in that area as well....seems to me using your evidence and your logic that walkers should be banned....they seem to be a problem! All those footsteps damaging the flora and fauna and disturbing wildlife. Eroding paths etc. Terrible the damage you must be causing. Immediate ban!

As with all things in life there are compromises to be made. Ill considered measures rarely work well in practice and if you lose support of the users you usually end up in a worse position than when you started.

It could, if you were minded to consider such an approach, just be a revenue raising initiative?

Once everything is banned you won’t even need the Authority.

You see how daft things start to get with the ban everything approach.

If you teach people about nature and allow them to have ownership of what happens they become part of it, they embrace it and start to be responsible, they contribute, they safeguard the future....if you ban them from being near it they will never learn to look after it.

I’m out!

 

[RubyOptics]

How do you differentiate? You drive past, there are say 3 m/hs parked up, the next day you notice the place has been trashed. Two responsible M/Hs 1 idiot! ALL ARE tarred with the same brush! Logical isn't it? You ban the lot! The good AND the bad!

Yes, sadly this is exactly what happens most of the time, responsible users/owners get tarred by the same brush as thoughtless, idiotic fools who couldn't care less. However, your argument to ban the activity still falls down, for the following reason...

I spent quite a lot of time tramping on the Moor in the Past, was there a few weeks ago just for a day trip and was disgusted with the litter piled high on the moor.

So by your argument, we should also ban hiking. You said it yourself, the moor is covered with litter and most of it is left behind by walkers too ignorant or selfish to take their litter home with them. So...ban it as well. Yes, sure, you'll be banning those that DO operate on the "leave only footprints, take only memories" principle, but what else can you do?!

 

[rangi]

I'm out ! The moor is there to treasure , obviously the selfish want to ignore The trash the animals trapped in dross left behind by the ignorant, the wild fires that happen on an annual basis , no no no We want free access to carry on as we please, make all sorts of stupid reasons , can't see the logic in my care of a national treasure.
Go there do as you please, strange though a few of us care ! Sling your hammocks leave your trash Camp over night save your self a few bob tiz free !.

BUT! you will finally get the message when a £1000 is stuck on your windscreen!

I'm out you can't teach the blind to see!

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[dash300]

I'm out ! The moor is there to treasure , obviously the selfish want to ignore The trash the animals trapped in dross left behind by the ignorant, the wild fires that happen on an annual basis , no no no We want free access to carry on as we please, make all sorts of stupid reasons , can't see the logic in my care of a national treasure.
Go there do as you please, strange though a few of us care ! Sling your hammocks leave your trash Camp over night save your self a few bob tiz free !.

BUT! you will finally get the message when a £1000 is stuck on your windscreen!

I'm out you can't teach the blind to see!

The trouble is that the people to whom you refer will continue to carry on irrespective of the level of restriction and fines because they will be pretty much untraceable and certainly will not pay any fine. All the legislation and restritions will achieve is disuading the majority law abiding traveling public from apreciating the very thing the Dartmoor Commisisoners are trying to preserve. I think the latter folk are quite happy to pay a resonable fee for for an overnight stop in the moors.

 

[Ivory55]

A reasonable fee made me chuckle, what a motorhome owner sees as reasonable is far removed from the real world. Haha

 

[dash300]

A reasonable fee made me chuckle, what a motorhome owner sees as reasonable is far removed from the real world. Haha

So what 'real world' fee would you be prepared to pay for an overnight 'aire' on Dartmoor?

 

[Ivory55]

So what 'real world' fee would you be prepared to pay for an overnight 'aire' on Dartmoor?

I would only stay on a site so would not interest me, but following any number of threads on here motorhome owners don’t like parting with money.

 

[dash300]

I would only stay on a site so would not interest me, but following any number of threads on here motorhome owners don’t like parting with money.

That's fine as would I most of the time, but I and I am sure others would still like to have choice and options as available in the rest of Europe and not be regulated away from choice by a sea of prohibited signs defacing our Moors and AONB's.

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[Ivory55]

That's fine as would I most of the time, but I and I am sure others would still like to have choice and options as available in the rest of Europe and not be regulated away from choice by a sea of prohibited signs defacing our Moors and AONB's.

We would all like lots of things, just have to be real and some get them and others don’t.

 

[dash300]

We would all like lots of things, just have to be real and some get them and others don’t.

Just a pity this Country reverts to regulation prohibition and cancel as the go to option in an attempt to deal with a few idiots. I don't see that as being real just the cheapest option to deal with a tiny minority of the antisocial lowlifes who spoil it for the vast majority.

 

[Ivory55]

Just a pity this Country reverts to regulation prohibition and cancel as the go to option in an attempt to deal with a few idiots. I don't see that as being real just the cheapest option to deal with a tiny minority of the antisocial lowlifes who spoil it for the vast majority.

Money, everyone knows how to spend other people’s and on their pet subject. Humans are all the same what one sees as important another sees as a waste because there is nothing in it for them or they just seem to always be the one paying.

 

[joe and sue]

By all means ban MH's and campervans, but the rubbish etc will still be there!!
Until a minority learn to respect the countryside, and other people, the majority will suffer as always.
Also whilst the media concentrate on the minority from whom they can make headlines, and ignore the majority, this problem will never go away
Joe

 

[RubyOptics]

I'm out ! The moor is there to treasure , obviously the selfish want to ignore The trash the animals trapped in dross left behind by the ignorant, the wild fires that happen on an annual basis , no no no We want free access to carry on as we please, make all sorts of stupid reasons , can't see the logic in my care of a national treasure.
Go there do as you please, strange though a few of us care ! Sling your hammocks leave your trash Camp over night save your self a few bob tiz free !.

BUT! you will finally get the message when a £1000 is stuck on your windscreen!

I'm out you can't teach the blind to see!

It seems as though me pointing out the logic in your post has caused you to label me as "ignorant". It's really very simple. You stated that you saw "piles of litter in the middle of the moor". This hasn't been done directly from a campervan/motorhome (unless you are suggesting that expedition vehicles are camping miles off-road?) and so logically it has been left by either hikers/cyclists. Therefore, surely if you are for the banning of motorhome "wild camping" to prevent litter, then surely a ban on hiking and cycling would also meet with your approval to prevent the same issue?

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