D+ wire on hymer transit chassis 2009 EBL 99

[Hannan]

Hello everyone could someone help walk me through how to check the d+ wire ? My leisure battery is not charging when i drive ? Starter battery is charging ok when driving, and both batteries charging ok on electric hookup. Fuses all ok, that i have found. I get no reading though from the yellow wire (pin 3 block 2 on EBL 99) which i think is the D+ ? . I have found a yellow wire going to a brown behind the glove box that i think might be the D+ ? Not sure tho...and no reading from here either. Readings present on pins 1 and 5 of block 2 showing higher charge incoming from starter battery when engine running ? Glass fuse inside ebl intact. That is as far as i have been able to get ?!! Id be really grateful for help. Thank you

 

[Quackers]

Lenny HB are you about to help out with this, or point her in the right direction? New member after visiting us at Woodside Field last week.

Hannah

 

[autorouter]

There should be a 2A fuse on the wire going to the Pin3 Block2. I think it is located near the starter battery, there will be a 50A main power, 20A for the fridge and 2A for the D+, probably all close together near the starter battery. If the D+ is missing, then the fridge won't switch to 12V, and other things like the step alarm won't work either.

Block 2 Pin 1 is indeed the starter supply, it powers the fridge 12V element (if the D+ is there to switch the relay). However Block 2 Pin 5 is for the leisure battery sensor wire, not the starter battery. The charging amps from the alternator goes through the 50A fuse near the starter battery, then through split charge relay inside the EBL, and out through the 50A fuse next to the leisure battery, so worth checking those two fuses to start with.

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny HB are you about to help out with this, or point her in the right direction? New member after visiting us at Woodside Field last week.

Hannah

autorouter to the rescue, not had any Internet all afternoon, been dragged around Windsor Castle.

 

[pagey]

autorouter to the rescue, not had any Internet all afternoon, been dragged around Windsor Castle.

What for its not for sale

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[Hannan]

Thanks so much for your replies, Quakers for flagging me (hello Quakers )), and Autorouter for your help. I have found the 50amp fuses x2 and the 20 and the 2 and all are ok ?

With engine running block 2 pin 1 reads over 14v for the starter battery, but the leisure battery at pin 5 stays at 12.2 not charging ? And i cant get a read off the d+ wire at all ? I am using multimeter at 20v with positive probe to the pin and negative to the earth ? Is that the right way to do it ?! If it is do you know where else and how i can check the d+ wire feed ?! Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

I have forgotten my step a couple of times but never heard an alarm ?

I used the fridge on 12v for one day while out and about but my leisure battery took a hit and lost a lot of charge ?

 

[paddymcc]

Thanks so much for your replies, Quakers for flagging me (hello Quakers )), and Autorouter for your help. I have found the 50amp fuses x2 and the 20 and the 2 and all are ok ?

With engine running block 2 pin 1 reads over 14v for the starter battery, but the leisure battery at pin 5 stays at 12.2 not charging ? And i cant get a read off the d+ wire at all ? I am using multimeter at 20v with positive probe to the pin and negative to the earth ? Is that the right way to do it ?! If it is do you know where else and how i can check the d+ wire feed ?! Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

I have forgotten my step a couple of times but never heard an alarm ?

I used the fridge on 12v for one day while out and about but my leisure battery took a hit and lost a lot of charge ?

On my 2006 Hymer the D+ is also yellow so it's worth trying to follow the brown wire back... Also fuses may look okay but worth using the multimeter to check for continuity.

 

[Figaro]

 

[Hannan]

On my 2006 Hymer the D+ is also yellow so it's worth trying to follow the brown wire back... Also fuses may look okay but worth using the multimeter to check for continuity.

Ok thank you very much i will try that.

 

[autorouter]

I have found the 50amp fuses x2 and the 20 and the 2 and all are ok ?

You could remove the 2A fuse and test the fuse terminals to see if the D+ signal gets to the fuse. It should go to about 12V when the engine is running, on one of the fuse terminals. The other one should stay at zero. That will tell you whether the D+ signal is reaching the fuse or not.

And i cant get a read off the d+ wire at all ? I am using multimeter at 20v with positive probe to the pin and negative to the earth ? Is that the right way to do it ?

Yes, exactly right.

When you turn on the ignition, the alternator light on the dashboard lights up. The question is, does the alternator light on the dashboard go off when the engine starts. If it does, then the alternator is producing the D+ signal.

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[Hannan]

You could remove the 2A fuse and test the fuse terminals to see if the D+ signal gets to the fuse. It should go to about 12V when the engine is running, on one of the fuse terminals. The other one should stay at zero. That will tell you whether the D+ signal is reaching the fuse or not.

Yes, exactly right.

When you turn on the ignition, the alternator light on the dashboard lights up. The question is, does the alternator light on the dashboard go off when the engine starts. If it does, then the alternator is producing the D+ signal.

Brilliant. Thanks so much. Yes the battery light comes on the dash at start up and then goes off so thats good good to know i am testing right too, thank you for confirming that Tomorrow i will remove the 2amp fuse and check to see if the signal reaching there thank you for the explanation, it helps a lot to know what to expect

 

[autorouter]

I used the fridge on 12v for one day while out and about but my leisure battery took a hit and lost a lot of charge ?

You're right, it does take a lot of power if you run it from the leisure battery. However the usual thing is to only run it on 12V when the engine is running, so that the power comes from the alternator. On most motorhomes there is a relay that switches the 12V on when driving, and off when stopped.

That's how it is done on Hymers, but they also have a possibility to run the fridge on 12V from the leisure battery. It's easy to run the leisure battery flat doing this, so on most other brands it's not possible. Does your fridge have Automatic Energy Selection (AES) or is it manually switched?

 

[Hannan]

Aha. Thank you for explaining that the fridge has auto selection however i had turned the gas off for travelling and put it onto the battery thinking it would only draw when the engine was running etc not realising it was draw down on the leisure battery, so its very good to know that. Thank you.

I have just checked for continuity at the 4 fuses by the batteries and they are all sound. I have also checked the 4 fuse holders and they are all reading 12 something at one of their terminals.

Block 2 wires appear to be routed though a black box (pic attached) i still get no reading on the yellow wire ...either on the block going into the black box or on the block coming out of it ? However the reading comes up with a minus sign with positive on the yellow and negative on the battery multimeter set to 20v ? Does this mean anything to you ? And is it ok to keep asking ??!! Thanks so much.

 

[Hannan]

You could remove the 2A fuse and test the fuse terminals to see if the D+ signal gets to the fuse. It should go to about 12V when the engine is running, on one of the fuse terminals. The other one should stay at zero. That will tell you whether the D+ signal is reaching the fuse or not.

Yes, exactly right.

When you turn on the ignition, the alternator light on the dashboard lights up. The question is, does the alternator light on the dashboard go off when the engine starts. If it does, then the alternator is producing the D+ signal.

There does not seem to be a yellow d+ feed from the 2 amp fuse ? It seems to be coming from behind the glove box ? Where it joins with a brown wire ??? I will now try to trace the brown wire - thank you Paddymcc

 

[Hannan]

Ok thank you very much i will try that.

Brilliant. Have checked fuse continuity and all ok have also found the brown wire behind the glove box is a ground switching d+ feed on the ford loom... (attached).. i have not been able to trace it tho...it disappears into a loom...never to be seen again !

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[autorouter]

A ground switching D+ is very different from a standard D+. Usually it is fed to the ground side of the coil of a single relay. The other coil terminal is fed a permanent +12V supply. When the engine is running and the ground switch is active, it will allow current to pass through the coil to the ground which energises the relay. When the engine stops, it stops the current through the coil so the relay turns off. It's a bit like having a permanently powered positive and a switch on the negative side.

Usually the first thing that's done is to convert the ground switched D+ to a standard D+ using a single relay. Then all the devices that need a D+ can run off that. That's what the text in your link is describing. Is this problem something that has suddenly stopped working after working OK for a time? Or is it a new build/mod and you're trying to find a D+ signal where there was none before?

 

[autorouter]

Sorry, didn't read your posts properly, that DP02 module is what I was thinking of in the last post. It converts a ground switching D+ (Activ an Masse) to a standard D+ (Aktiv an +12V). There is a small DIP switch inside that can be set through a hole with something like a fine screwdriver. So the style of D+ coming out of the DP02 can be changed to what you want.

So, is the D+ coming out of the DP02 OK or not? Presumably not, from what you have said about Block 2 Pin 3.

To test the ground switched D+ going into the DP02, you'll need something that can indicate when a small current is flowing. A small bulb, like a sidelight bulb for example. Connect one terminal to +12V and use the other to test the D+. It should light when the engine is running, and turn off when the engine stops.

 

[Hannan]

Sorry, didn't read your posts properly, that DP02 module is what I was thinking of in the last post. It converts a ground switching D+ (Activ an Masse) to a standard D+ (Aktiv an +12V). There is a small DIP switch inside that can be set through a hole with something like a fine screwdriver. So the style of D+ coming out of the DP02 can be changed to what you want.

So, is the D+ coming out of the DP02 OK or not? Presumably not, from what you have said about Block 2 Pin 3.

To test the ground switched D+ going into the DP02, you'll need something that can indicate when a small current is flowing. A small bulb, like a sidelight bulb for example. Connect one terminal to +12V and use the other to test the D+. It should light when the engine is running, and turn off when the engine stops.

Thank you again autorouter. It is my first time in a motorhome, first time owning a motorhome, and it was my first trip when i found it not to be working. I have messaged the previous owners asking if they know any history etc ? I have a light tester coming tomorrow...i'll let you know what i find ....

 

[Hannan]

Thank you again autorouter. It is my first time in a motorhome, first time owning a motorhome, and it was my first trip when i found it not to be working. I have messaged the previous owners asking if they know any history etc ? I have a light tester coming tomorrow...i'll let you know what i find ....

Sorry, didn't read your posts properly, that DP02 module is what I was thinking of in the last post. It converts a ground switching D+ (Activ an Masse) to a standard D+ (Aktiv an +12V). There is a small DIP switch inside that can be set through a hole with something like a fine screwdriver. So the style of D+ coming out of the DP02 can be changed to what you want.

So, is the D+ coming out of the DP02 OK or not? Presumably not, from what you have said about Block 2 Pin 3.

To test the ground switched D+ going into the DP02, you'll need something that can indicate when a small current is flowing. A small bulb, like a sidelight bulb for example. Connect one terminal to +12V and use the other to test the D+. It should light when the engine is running, and turn off when the engine stops.

Ok so with the engine running using a test light with the crocodile clipped to the positove of the battery and the probe on the d+ pin entering the dp02 there is no light. (Light pen is working !) Does that confirm it is indeed the d+ feed that is the problem ? If so is it time to call a professional

 

[Speve]

I didn’t think the D+ worked when engine not running on ours if we are parked up you either have gas or mains electric.
D+ only works when travelling or engine running

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[autorouter]

Ok so with the engine running using a test light with the crocodile clipped to the positove of the battery and the probe on the d+ pin entering the dp02 there is no light. (Light pen is working !) Does that confirm it is indeed the d+ feed that is the problem ? If so is it time to call a professional

Yes, looks like you've traced the problem to the base vehicle electrics. Presumably it's a standard auto electrician problem, not related to the motorhome side.

 

[Hannan]

I didn’t think the D+ worked when engine not running on ours if we are parked up you either have gas or mains electric.
D+ only works when travelling or engine running

Thank you Speve are you talking about the fridge ? If so i havent even started to understand the fridge mechanics !!! I agree though from what i have learnt so far, the d+ is a signal/feed from the alternator and therefore only activates when engine is running i understand so far it is possible some hymers may draw on the leisure battery when parked up and if so this is a separate circit to the D+ ? I havent checked this yet tho......

 

[Hannan]

Yes, looks like you've traced the problem to the base vehicle electrics. Presumably it's a standard auto electrician problem, not related to the motorhome side.

Amazing thank you SO much the previous owners just told me a buzzer used to sound when leaving if the steps were down too...and it doesnt now...and there is a red feed off the yellow wire to something that looks like it could be a buzzer !! So no new dp02 needed - and no new rectifier needed ...and a lot learnt.

THANK YOU

i will pass it forward x

 

[autorouter]

On the EBL99, the fridge can be powered from either the leisure battery or the alternator/starter battery. There is a fuse labelled 'Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank' which protects the supply from the leisure battery. If you remove that fuse, it will not work from the leisure battery. It will still work from the alternator/starter battery. Some people prefer to remove the fuse, and only insert it for special reasons - on a ferry crossing for example, when you have to isolate the gas at the bottle. Avoids inadvertently flattening the leisure battery.

There is a relay inside the EBL that connects the fridge element to the starter battery when the engine is running and a D+ is present. I presume that's not working since the D+ is not working.

Do you have the manual for the EBL99? There is a circuit diagram of it near the end. It's available on the Schaudt website. Unfortunately the website is in German, but there are English versions of the manuals. If you can't find it let us know, I can post it. You select the manual required, enter your email, and they send you a link to download it. Usually get the email back in a minute or two.

 

[Hannan]

Yes, looks like you've traced the problem to the base vehicle electrics. Presumably it's a standard auto electrician problem, not related to the motorhome side.

Amazing thank you SO much the previous owners just told me a buzzer used to sound when leaving if the steps were down too...and it doesnt now...and there is a red feed off the yellow wire to something that looks like it could be a buzzer !! So no new dp02 needed - and no new rectifier

On the EBL99, the fridge can be powered from either the leisure battery or the alternator/starter battery. There is a fuse labelled 'Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank' which protects the supply from the leisure battery. If you remove that fuse, it will not work from the leisure battery. It will still work from the alternator/starter battery. Some people prefer to remove the fuse, and only insert it for special reasons - on a ferry crossing for example, when you have to isolate the gas at the bottle. Avoids inadvertently flattening the leisure battery.

There is a relay inside the EBL that connects the fridge element to the starter battery when the engine is running and a D+ is present. I presume that's not working since the D+ is not working.

Do you have the manual for the EBL99? There is a circuit diagram of it near the end. It's available on the Schaudt website. Unfortunately the website is in German, but there are English versions of the manuals. If you can't find it let us know, I can post it. You select the manual required, enter your email, and they send you a link to download it. Usually get the email back in a minute or two.

...and a lot learnt.

THANK YOU

i will pass it forward x

On the EBL99, the fridge can be powered from either the leisure battery or the alternator/starter battery. There is a fuse labelled 'Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank' which protects the supply from the leisure battery. If you remove that fuse, it will not work from the leisure battery. It will still work from the alternator/starter battery. Some people prefer to remove the fuse, and only insert it for special reasons - on a ferry crossing for example, when you have to isolate the gas at the bottle. Avoids inadvertently flattening the leisure battery.

There is a relay inside the EBL that connects the fridge element to the starter battery when the engine is running and a D+ is present. I presume that's not working since the D+ is not working.

Do you have the manual for the EBL99? There is a circuit diagram of it near the end. It's available on the Schaudt website. Unfortunately the website is in German, but there are English versions of the manuals. If you can't find it let us know, I can post it. You select the manual required, enter your email, and they send you a link to download it. Usually get the email back in a minute or two.

Thanks so much - i will remove that fuse til i understand the mechanics ...and my D+ is working !!. That is so good to know

No i dont have the manual...i will look to download it - thank you.

....... Is it ok to run the fridge on gas when travelling ? If i dont stop at service stations ? Given i dont have a d+ ??? At the moment i just turn it off til i am stationary ?

So much to learn !

Thank you Autorouter

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[Lenny HB]

No, it's against the construction and use regs.

 

[Hannan]

No, it's against the construction and use regs.

Thank you.

 

[autorouter]

There is another possibility, a sort of 'get you home' bodge, until you can get the D+ fixed. I see there is a splice connector on the yellow D+ wire. You could put on another one, with the wire going to +12V, with an inline fuse, maybe 2A to protect it. Then wire a switch into the wire.

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You could switch it on when the engine is running, and off when the engine stops. Also that will tell you if all the circuits for the D+ are working OK - battery charging, fridge, step alarm etc. Just don't forget to switch it off when you stop.

 

[Hannan]

There is another possibility, a sort of 'get you home' bodge, until you can get the D+ fixed. I see there is a splice connector on the yellow D+ wire. You could put on another one, with the wire going to +12V, with an inline fuse, maybe 2A to protect it. Then wire a switch into the wire.

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You could switch it on when the engine is running, and off when the engine stops. Also that will tell you if all the circuits for the D+ are working OK - battery charging, fridge, step alarm etc. Just don't forget to switch it off when you stop.

That would be really cool. Thanks so much. Yes i think the splice connector may feed the buzzer for the step that isnt working either. When you say a wire to the +12v is that a wire to the positive terminal of the leisure battery ? I am off to Halfords !!!! THANK YOU

 

[autorouter]

When you say a wire to the +12v is that a wire to the positive terminal of the leisure battery ?

It's only a tiny current, so any old +12V will do. A wire to the leisure battery is as good as any, if it's convenient. With an inline fuse if it's straight from the battery.

When the engine stops, there is a delay of about 15 minutes before the gas to the fridge turns on. It's a safety thing, for when you stop for fuel. It can look like a mystery fault if you're not aware of it.

Make sure you don't switch on the D+ until after the engine has started and the alternator light on the dashboard is off. If you switch it on too soon, the leisure battery will be trying to assist the starter battery with powering the starter motor, which is not good for the leisure battery or the wiring.

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