Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation (67 Viewers)

[Jonno1103]

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation.

When up plating from 3500kg RFL will continue to be £365 pa. IT IS NOT being reduced to the PHG rate of £165.

Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc.

This legislation is causing a great deal of harm to companies such as SvTech who are currently in constant communication with HMG and it is fully expected to be escalated and discussed on the floor in the House of Commons.

However, one of the reasons why in the short term this is in force is due to the EU's 4th directive and once in place will mean that RFL will illustrate the new entry weight limit. Vans & Moho's will need to be over 4250kg in order to qualify for the reduced RFL.

The Fourth Directive...

The EU will ratify this and it will be in force from January 2025. This means that drivers with post 1997 licences can drive upto 4250kg whether EV or ICE powered. Licences will become digital and some medicals will be self assessment.

Current information from Downing Street strongly suggests that the U.K.'s original stance was to also adopt this following an announcement during the March 2025 budget. The U.K. has historically adopted the first 3 directives and will also adopt No4.

There is now however a strong suggestion that this will be announced during the late October budget and will be in place for newly registered motohomes from March 1st.

This is of course still to be confirmed.

 

[Emmit]

Another how does this affect me
currently plated at 3850kg but 70 march 2025 so right now slightly confused as will i need a medical or not?

Don't tell 'em you're confused.
You'll have no hope of a C1

 

[Emmit]

I wouldn't trust the new lot not to screw us rich, pensioner, passion wagon owners if, (when) they are given the chance.

 

[Fragle]

License and van weight changes. Some good information

I don’t think I have seen this mentioned on here so thought I’d share what I was watching today during all the rain Interesting information on up plating your van and the fact you no longer get the tax reduction to £165 or refund. You can up plate but your road tax stays the same Some big...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

This is the thread that has been posted it’s basically highlighting what was posted on motorhome Matt podcast.

Having already spoken with SV Tech today some of what has been said above is incorrect they are in contact with motorhome Matt to correct his statements

But the correct part is the reduced tax has now gone but if you have it already you will keep it

 

[Wombles]

Lots of chat on motorhoming social media that the rules have changed & that now if uprating the weight of your motorhome the road tax category remains the same so no financial incentive to do this anymore! Checking on SV Tech website it seems that this may be true https://www.svtech.co.uk/taxclass/

"** Following a change within the DVLA policy section (July ’24), weight changes to vehicles having a vehicle category (J) on the V5C as either M1 or N1, will now only have the F.1 Max Permissible Mass box changed, not the revenue weight or tax class."​

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[125BEER]

Question...
If you currently have PHG.....will the vehicle excise change at the 12 month renewal date....
ie pay more......

Cheers

 

[Wombles]

Question...
If you currently have PHG.....will the vehicle excise change at the 12 month renewal date....
ie pay more......

Cheers

It doesn't sound like it will affect anyone who has uprated in the past just those doing so now.

 

[dunnah01]

This would massively increase the market for my 4 25t moho if I ever decided to sell it - so it won't happen

 

[DuxDeluxe]

It was sneaked in by stealth…… I had to wait until the C1 was renewed (thanks incompetent DVLA “medical” team for not understanding basics) and missed the change by about 2 weeks

 

[L' Hobo]

It was sneaked in by stealth……

But surely, not unexpected?

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[The Artilleryman]

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation.

When up plating from 3500kg RFL will continue to be £365 pa. IT IS NOT being reduced to the PHG rate of £165.

Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc.

This legislation is causing a great deal of harm to companies such as SvTech who are currently in constant communication with HMG and it is fully expected to be escalated and discussed on the floor in the House of Commons.

However, one of the reasons why in the short term this is in force is due to the EU's 4th directive and once in place will mean that RFL will illustrate the new entry weight limit. Vans & Moho's will need to be over 4250kg in order to qualify for the reduced RFL.

The Fourth Directive...

The EU will ratify this and it will be in force from January 2025. This means that drivers with post 1997 licences can drive upto 4250kg whether EV or ICE powered. Licences will become digital and some medicals will be self assessment.

Current information from Downing Street strongly suggests that the U.K.'s original stance was to also adopt this following an announcement during the March 2025 budget. The U.K. has historically adopted the first 3 directives and will also adopt No4.

There is now however a strong suggestion that this will be announced during the late October budget and will be in place for newly registered motohomes from March 1st.

This is of course still to be confirmed.

Very little of what is said above is accurate.

And yes, I have been involved in this farce.

EU fourth directive has NO relevance to this country.

The saga of up plating, has been well documented in other threads - with a lot more accuracy.

It would not surprise me if VED on motorhomes will be set for ALL motorhomes irrespective of weight, same as MOT class is.

 

[The Artilleryman]

This will not last long as Revenue weight is the only figure shown on DVLA's check tax page.

The V5c should be an accurate document, as this will be your documentary evidence if prosecuted/fined for being over weight.

Revenue weight and MTPLM should be the same.

This is DVLA trying to re write the rules as they feel that they are too many motorhomes being up plated to pay less VED, when the case is we are up plating so we can have a decent payload without being overloaded.

My 1st application to DVLA was rejected, re submitted in July and went through OK.

I have no problem of a single VED rate for motorhomes/camper vans, irrespective of GVW.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Very little of what is said above is accurate.

And yes, I have been involved in this farce.

EU fourth directive has NO relevance to this country.

The saga of up plating, has been well documented in other threads - with a lot more accuracy.

It would not surprise me if VED on motorhomes will be set for ALL motorhomes irrespective of weight, same as MOT class is.

Conversely, as someone with a vested interest, all I’ve seen is the various recent commentary emerging.

Which parts are factually inaccurate from your involvement? The vehicle up-plating, alleged 4250 B category licence entitlement change etc?

I imagine the UK could elect to select some/all/none of the EU 4th Directive as our current overseers decide appropriate? I guess it makes logical sense to keep a degree of compatibility in certain areas, so it probably won’t happen then…

 

[Googlebot]

This will not last long as Revenue weight is the only figure shown on DVLA's check tax page.

The V5c should be an accurate document, as this will be your documentary evidence if prosecuted/fined for being over weight.

Revenue weight and MTPLM should be the same.

This is DVLA trying to re write the rules as they feel that they are too many motorhomes being up plated to pay less VED, when the case is we are up plating so we can have a decent payload without being overloaded.

My 1st application to DVLA was rejected, re submitted in July and went through OK.

I have no problem of a single VED rate for motorhomes/camper vans, irrespective of GVW.

I am not disagreeing with you.

It is however accurate as a document as revenue weight is a taxation class and MTPLM is a design weight.

That said, a lot were downplated to comply with a stupid low licence figure.

I might be talking rubbish in that case.

 

[rod_vw]

It was sneaked in by stealth…… I had to wait until the C1 was renewed (thanks incompetent DVLA “medical” team for not understanding basics) and missed the change by about 2 weeks

I am in an almost identical position!

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[rod_vw]

Ours is registered as N1 category and they say they can't change that although they have accepted the up-plating.

However international categories state that N1 is for vehicles up to a Max Gross Weight of 3500kg.

Quoting all of the national and international documents regarding this fails to change their attitude.

There is also a UK government document that states that motor caravans should be classed as Special Vehicles and that if over 3500kg they should be considered as Private Heavy Goods.

None of that will sway the DVLA's attitude

 

[pagey]

I'm thinking about changing my van it's 3500k gross as I'm a young 75 I'm restricted to this without a c1 now does this mean I will now able to drive a van up to 4250 with my current licence?

 

[repairer]

Trying to read through and digest all the comments, as I understand it from the comments, the weight limit is to be raised from 3.5 to 4.25. (Proposed??)

My big question is will someone who is now approaching 70 - me - be allowed to carry on driving my MH after my birthday next year without having to go through the medical etc? So effectively will the new 4.25 limit become the old 3.5 limit?

 

[PaulW2]

I'm thinking about changing my van it's 3500k gross as I'm a young 75 I'm restricted to this without a c1 now does this mean I will now able to drive a van up to 4250 with my current licence?

As I understand it (ie not very well), it's not yet clear.

In the EU it seems that they are going ahead with increasing B licence weight limits for ambulances and motor caravans to 4.25 t, irrespective of fuel type. For other vehicles it will depend on fuel type. Simple and clear on paper. *

I haven't seen this degree of clarity in what has been said in the UK, but may not have looked properly. It seems that whether an increase is allowed may depend on fuel type. Also, if the UK were to introduce a motor caravan-specific derogation like the EU (perhaps unlikely - what have they ever done for us?) it seems we may immediately be in the morass of whether a vehicle is a van with windows or a motor caravan?

I would personally hold my horses until clarity emerges before purchasing a heavier van.

* An EU-wide directive, significantly influenced by the German motor caravan manufacturers lobby. What about us? Does no-one care about Magna Carta? Did she die in vain, poor Hungarian peasant girl?

 

[Puddleduck]

If the 4250 figure is introduced here it's good news for us and may mean we will buy a van once my health improves.

The extra on the RFL might be a tank and a bit of fuel but less than a week of club camp site fees. If I can afford to own and run a motorhome I can afford the extra RFL.

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[rod_vw]

I'm thinking about changing my van it's 3500k gross as I'm a young 75 I'm restricted to this without a c1 now does this mean I will now able to drive a van up to 4250 with my current licence?

NO.
Past rules still apply, have a medical and renew every three years. D2 & D4 forms etc.
Your age is the same as mine and I've been through the same process this year with an up-plated van. I used D4Drivers with no problem however Mrs R met a very inconciderate medic at the same company which caused some problems, long story which I won't go into now.

 

[suavecarve]

If I uprate to 4250+ now. Will I get the cheaper RFL ?

 

[gus-lopez]

OK. So, what is my situation?

We bought a 3650Kg Hymer having had it re-plated to 3500Kg so I could drive it.

Will we need to get it plated back to 3650Kg?

Can we do that?

You would be able to go to 4250 with the right modifications & drive on acar licence

Another how does this affect me
currently plated at 3850kg but 70 march 2025 so right now slightly confused as will i need a medical or not?

Probably if over 70 still

Double bubble winners will be those already up plated to 4250kg GVW which will remain as PHGV with RFL at £165 (at present).

only until they alter it. ask the people who used to have zero tax cars who now pay 120 pounds

It may be that if the continental EU change from 3500 to 4250 (Due to EV weights) then they will probably change road and speed limits for. 3500 to 4350 also along with standard licences.

or the French will kepp them the same & means that 80kph will be tops + no overtaking

Normally when they make changes they are not retrospective

they changed zero ved vehicles in to payers?

However international categories state that N1 is for vehicles up to a Max Gross Weight of 3500kg.

which here in spain will now have to be classed as 4250 kgs from 1st january

now does this mean I will now able to drive a van up to 4250 with my current licence?

if it comes in to force

So effectively will the new 4.25 limit become the old 3.5 limit?

yes

In the EU it seems that they are going ahead with increasing B licence weight limits for ambulances and motor caravans to 4.25 t, irrespective of fuel type.

yes

Also, if the UK were to introduce a motor caravan-specific derogation like the EU

they did for electric vans in the uk in 2019 , raised it to 4250kgs.problem with that is fleet operators then found the vehicle became an HGV subject to1 year mot's, reduced speed limits , requiring tachos if over 100kms from depot etc,etc.

 

[Fragle]

If I uprate to 4250+ now. Will I get the cheaper RFL ?

No. you've missed the boat

Question...
If you currently have PHG.....will the vehicle excise change at the 12 month renewal date....
ie pay more......

Cheers

Not according to SV Tech I asked

Revenue weight and MTPLM should be the same.

I asked this yesterday when I called SV Tech and I was informed that is not the case when shown on the V5

I was told they don't and never have changed the MTPLM on the V5 when up plating. Showing 3500 is not a problem according to SV Tech

 

[Garfields]

You mean the oaps can keep their winter allowance then?

I don’t trust em

Yes
They are not asking for the money that was paid in previous years back WESTY66

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[Gaston aires]

This will seriously impact SVtech,s (and the likes) business.
Shame when they have built up a reputation over the years.

 

[David and Sally]

I wonder who decided to alter these rules and if there is legislation to cover the changes.

All very confusing.

 

[Bessy765]

Will this have any affect on the C1 medical for over 70??

 

[Lenny HB]

The EU ratified the change to 4250kg on a B licence but left it to individual countries to implement it if they want to. So far I think only Spain is going ahead.
If enough countries change hopefully the UK will follow but no guarantee.

 

[Two on Tour]

I was told they don't and never have changed the MTPLM on the V5 when up plating. Showing 3500 is not a problem according to SV Tech

That's incorrect as I up-plated from 3300 to 3850, as I insisted that the DVLA changed the MTPLM on my V5 to 3850 and they did.

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[Langtoftlad]

I thought I read there was a consultation months ago - ah yes,
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...nsultation-on-driving-licence-changes.270002/
Perhaps the uprating was part of that?

That's incorrect as I up-plated from 3300 to 3850, as I insisted that the DVLA changed the MTPLM on my V5 to 3850 and they did.

View attachment 959838

Mine too - but it took DVLA 3 goes!