CP tyres in France

[PeteH]

And people want to know why? (Br***t) Too many control freaks in the EUSSR that`s why.

 

[DL42846]

I'm still trying to sort out what the French law is regarding tires for Motor Homes in France.
I have searched the internet and can't find anything on it.

When I contacted Allopnues a well establish online tire company in France I was told
" All vehicles in circulation from 2003 must be fitted with tires with special marking CP camper."

I have now contacted Michelin EU. and I was given the following information.


Your MICHELIN tire answer




Dear Michael,

Thank you for contacting the MICHELIN Customer Service.

For your requested vehicle:

Brand: FIAT

Model: DUCATO – 130 Multijet (PTAC 3500 Maxi)

Engine: 3.5T DIESEL

Tire dimensions: 215/75 R16 – Based on MICHELIN database



In regards of the specific markings and regulations on tyres, the marking of CP is a manufacturers marking, that this “C-tyre” has been developed for camping vehicles, but is not a requirement by law or certificated marking as the 3PMSF is. Below is quoted my source from official MICHELIN glossary:

C tyres
“Reinforced tyres for light lorries, vans and good vehicles are known as C tyres. Depending on the manufacturer, the “C” stands for “Commercial” or “Cargo” but they both relate to the same thing. On many C tyres there is a double marking for the maximum load for single or twin tyre formations. Originally, the abbreviation “PR” was located on the side wall of tyres for good vehicles. This refers to the Ply Rating, which formerly indicated the number of body ply cords, thus representing the load bearing capacity. which is nowadays shown by the load index for vans or goods vehicles. So tyres with 8PR rating had a higher load-bearing capacity than 6PR tyres. When selecting tyres for a goods vehicle, the primary considerations are construction type and load index. Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use. In contrast, the abbreviation “CP” stands for “Camping”. This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.”

CP Tyres

“CP tyres have been developed for camping vehicles such as mobile homes and are fitted with a reinforced sub structure. Equivalent to C tyres in terms of construction, CP tyres therefore have a high load bearing capacity. Due to considerably higher air pressure, CP tyres have higher load bearing capacity and at the same time, greater protection from mechanical damage. This reinforcement is done over several layers as in 205/55 R16 99 CP V tyres. This protects the tyres during a long stationary period on a base plate.
Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use. In contrast, the abbreviation “CP” stands for “Camping”. This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.”

After looking into our database, MICHELIN would be able to recommend the following:

MICHELIN AGILIS ALPIN – Designed for motorhomes

• Long life
• Robustness
• Versatility (M+S marked)

MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE – What your business needs (*NEW ARTICLE* SUMMER 2018)

https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-agilis-crossclimate

• Safety in every weather condition
• Optimal traction on all terrain types ( 3PMSF-marking)
• #1 in longevity in all tyre categories

The Agilis Crossclimate is a new article and will be made available during the 3rd quarter of the year.

I wish to have satisfied your query, but please do not hesitate to contact us for any further information or advice.

For additional information please contact us by email: contact@tc.michelin.eu, on our website http://www.michelin.co.uk/, our contact form http://www.michelin.co.uk/contact or by phone to 0845 366 1590 or 0845 366 1535.

MICHELIN is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence.



Kind regards,


Panu


MICHELIN Consumer Care

Passenger Car & Light Truck Tyres

Tel: 0845 366 1590; 0845 366 1535

E-mail: contact@tc.michelin.eu

Contact us: www.michelin.co.uk/contact

Web: www.michelin.co.uk


Just rang the Michelin EU customer Services who have confirmed the New Crossclimate tyres coming out in JUly should be fine for my MH. They are going to contact there legal department in France to check out if it is a legal requirement to have tyres rated with CP.
So we will see once and for all.

 

[Freespirit1]

Available in 116 and 118 so I picked the higher to show that they still don't compare to "white van tyres"

Martin

Got a new pair of front ones fitted today in Crete - they had to come from Holland and are actually 118’s - what I do note is that the inflation pressure stamped on them is actually 75 psi - the old 116’s are stamped 80 psi. It was also good to see they were both manufactured week 07 in 2018

 

[Freespirit1]

Ditto

 

[chaser]

has anyone thought to contact other tyre makers apart from mich and conti.
i am sure they arent the only ones who make tyres for vans.

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[Freespirit1]

And people want to know why? (Br***t) Too many control freaks in the EUSSR that`s why.

Yes - standards are quite likely to drop in the U.K. after Brexit

 

[chaser]

has anyone thought to contact other tyre makers apart from mich and conti.
i am sure they arent the only ones who make tyres for vans.

thats a big no then

 

[Hymie]

Help, my brain 'urts,

I'm getting really confused with all this stuff about tyres now, why do some people seem to be almost throwing away Vanco tyres and running off to buy theses Agilis tyres?

I'm getting 2 new fronts tomorrow, after researching I decided on the Vanco as they are rated B & B @ 71db, the michelin ones, top line, same size as mine, are rated E & B @ 70db, so surely the Vanco are better, or am I missing something???

Hymie

 

[sdc77]

We have 16 inch fourseasons2. I'm quite happy they are legal in the UK and Europe.

 

[DL42846]

The official verdict from Michelin regarding MH running on Van tires (C) or Camping car Tires (CP)

Dear Michael,



Just a quick clarification regarding your query short while ago regarding the CP marked tyres.



After looking into your case further regarding the CP marking regulations, we have the information that only in ITALY it is mandatory to have CP marked tyres on a Camping Van. In other parts of EU the regulation is based on load and weight indexes. However my OFFICIAL MICHELIN RECOMMENDATION needs to be the firstly mentioned MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, However as stated in the definition of CP tyres: "Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use. In contrast, the abbreviation “CP” stands for “Camping”. This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.”


The CP-marked camping tyres being stronger and more robust as a tyre, the most significant difference would be the ability of these tyres to maintain in the same position for longer periods (i.e. over the winter), where as a non-CP tyre would most likely experience some deformation do to being still for a long period.


So to conclude; Officially MICHELIN recommends your vehicle MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, but if you do verify the specific tyre requirements with your car manufacturer, or registration paperwork, and have your vehicle weighed and tyres to be inflated with according pressures, theoretically you might be able to safely mount the MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE, but you need to verify the specifics with your manufacturer and local authorities if necessary.


I wish to have satisfied your query, but please do not hesitate to contact us for any further information or advice.

For additional information please contact us by email: contact@tc.michelin.eu, on our website http://www.michelin.co.uk/, our contact form http://www.michelin.co.uk/contact or by phone to 0845 366 1590 or 0845 366 1535.

MICHELIN is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence.



Kind regards,


Panu


MICHELIN Consumer Care

Passenger Car & Light Truck Tyres

Tel: 0845 366 1590; 0845 366 1535

E-mail: contact@tc.michelin.eu

Contact us: www.michelin.co.uk/contact

Web: www.michelin.co.uk

View attachment 225973

Help, my brain 'urts,

I'm getting really confused with all this stuff about tyres now, why do some people seem to be almost throwing away Vanco tyres and running off to buy theses Agilis tyres?

I'm getting 2 new fronts tomorrow, after researching I decided on the Vanco as they are rated B & B @ 71db, the michelin ones, top line, same size as mine, are rated E & B @ 70db, so surely the Vanco are better, or am I missing something???

Hymie

HI, I'm no expert here, But I have run Conti Vanco Campers and Michelin Agilis Camper. Both are excellent tires. The reason I went with Michelin was because they were rated as M&S where as Conti were not. I was going to do a trip to Germany in winter and it is a legal requirement to have Snow rated tires. The Conti's to my mind are slightly better in summer conditions. Where as the Michelin's have the M&S rating although to be honest I don't think there is much difference between them in reality. I think it is in 2020 M&S rated tires will mean nothing. You will have to have the three snow flake symbol which means they have had to meet a certain criteria to earn the Three snow flakes. Where as anyone can give a M&S rating. If you have purchased the Conti's I don't think you will be disappointed, they are great tires. Providing your not doing much winter driving in snowy conditions. The Michelin's are not much better if at all in winter conditions, I'm ideally looking for a four-seasons camper tire, but they don't exist yet which may be a bit better on wet grass and in the snow. Which is why I am looking at Van tires. Hope this might throw some light on the subject.

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[Hymie]

Thanks @Mikescuba, that's put my mind at rest, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

We don't do driving in snow, even in the UK, I was pondering cancelling the fitting but I'll go ahead with the Vanco's now.

Hymie.

 

[AXO66]

Our new chausson ( so french) came fitted with

Goodyear Marathon 235/65R 16C. 115/113 which gives a weight rating of 1215kg Per tyre.

(that’s the 115 rating as we are not a double wheel axle which I think the 113 rating’ refers to)

Our max axle weights are 2000 kg rear and. (from memory ) 1850 kg front. Transit based van.

So tyres rated at max load of 1215 x2 = 2430kg for each axle, easily enough for both front and rear axle weights. And total tyre carrying weight of 4x 1215 = 4890 kg max . We are weighted at 3500kg.

So interms of the actual weights each tyre can carry we seem to have bit in reserve.

No idea how the sidewall construction compares with other tryes and logically this does seem important re the relative strength of the tyre whist standing still.

But thinking about it, if mine are weaker than a camping car specified tyre would my sidewall start to bulge or misshapen over time? Hope not!

 

[Freespirit1]

Thanks @Mikescuba, that's put my mind at rest, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

We don't do driving in snow, even in the UK, I was pondering cancelling the fitting but I'll go ahead with the Vanco's now.

Hymie.

I would try and find others with your specific Motorhome and ask their experiences with the various options before deciding based on technical data for tyres. Hymer themselves may even give you a view direct?

 

[Stonegrey]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but, I found this forum as a result of researching motorhome tyres and more to the point the legalities of fitting load index rated van tyres to a motorhome.

My insurance company didn't see a problem, so, I rang the DVSA (VOSA) they couldn't initially see an issue, but did make the point that if you deviate from the manufacturers specifications you can only do so, if you upgrade so, 116 index instead of 113. Even though several tyre dealers claim that C & CP rated tyres are identical, they are most certainly not. C rated are designed to carry the vehicles MGW for intermittent periods, most MH kerb weights are the same as the panel van versions MGW. The technical manager I spoke to at the DVSA pointed out that if the only tyres recommended by the manufacturer are CP rated ones then that is all you can fit, if you fit C rated tyres which are inflated to 65psi, not the 80psi most motorhomes require, the sidewall will be under excessive strain and will distort under breaking or cornering, this can lead to loss of control or tyre failure. It is also a breach of the vehicle type approval, which is a prosecutable offence, 3 points and a fine under the construction and use regulations, then there us also the risk of invalidating your insurance (yet another offence) and possibly dangerous driving.

With motorhomes becoming more popular, you can expect to see the DVSA inspections on motorhomes increase rapidly of next spring, and a possible change in the somewhat murky legislation.

Currently only Italy has a mandatory ruling that all motorhomes must be fitted with CP rated tyres and as the biggest manufacturer of motorhome chassis's in Europe is FIAT (the make the Peugeot and Citroen equivalents) they only specify CP rated tyres on their camping cars.

 

[yodeli]

Typical post by people thinking other countries are somehow difficult its why people worry about going to France the first time. Why do people do it?

I must say that FRENCH SELLERS DO insist on changing both tyres, saying it's the law. Now just try to be in the people's shoes when it happens
1) Grrrr , I should have checked before going here!
2)Then ... Heck if I say I want to check , I will loose my place in the queue and start all over again!
3) Then again... Heck, where can I find the right info right now?
4) Will they believe me when I say (if I can manage this in French) it's not the law?
5 and conclusion) Ah well never mind let's change both , we'll have less diners out!
Next thing he knows is better warn all the people out there to be aware of the hassle.

My conclusion: Why no one has tried to go to a gendarmerie , with a nice smile, BEFORE any tyre has to be changed, and ASK

Edit: Never realised it was a 2018 thread!

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