Council tax on motorhomes

[motorhomeman]

ref council tax

I have been chatting with a mate, who has heard that they are considering charging council tax on motorhomes, something along the lines of it being considered an holiday home.

To be honest it sounds;

a) complete and utter rubbish
b)completely unworkable;

Which council would get the money? what about if you were abroad?

I am only guessing but surely it would only apply to full timers?

As anyone heard anything about this? I have asked him to get more details

it could never work to pay council tax they would have to provide the same servives they provide at your home

 

[GeorgeTelford]

it could never work to pay council tax they would have to provide the same servives they provide at your home

Hi Motorhomeman

Thats simply not true, I paid rates for a business of £2,900 per year and they do not provide businesses with any services, not even a bin emptied.

 

[GJH]

Thats simply not true, I paid rates for a business of £2,900 per year and they do not provide businesses with any services, not even a bin emptied.

That's because it was Business Rates George, different animal from Council Tax.

Have you sent that follow-up FoI request off yet to obtain facts instead of speculation? In case you've forgotten, the e-mail address is <COUNCIL.TAX@odpm.gsi.gov.uk>.

Graham

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Graham

Its VOSA thats looking into this not the councils, so I am not sure there would be any point asking the council to comment on a proposed white paper that VOSA is looking into.

That's because it was Business Rates George, different animal from Council Tax.

Thats the kind of double talk you expect from goverment, its dealt with by same council tax employee's and followed up by exactly same council employee's and is based on banding which is decided by same assesors. Only difference I could decern was that it cost more and provided less.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

 

[GJH]

Hi Graham

Its VOSA thats looking into this not the councils, so I am not sure there would be any point asking the council to comment on a proposed white paper that VOSA is looking into.

Hello George,

If you look back you'll see that I suggested that you contact VOSA and provided you with the contact details 5 days ago (after you queried the response I received to my enquiry). Contact details are Link Removed so why not ask them so that you can end the speculation?

Hi Graham

Thats the kind of double talk you expect from goverment, its dealt with by same council tax employee's and followed up by exactly same council employee's and is based on banding which is decided by same assesors. Only difference I could decern was that it cost more and provided less.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

Sorry George but you are wrong.

The Thatcher government replaced the old Rates system with Community Charge (since replaced by Council Tax) and National Non-Domestic Rates (often called Business Rates). The idea behind NNDR is that businesses pay the same amount for similar premises wherever they are in the country. Under the old system businesses with multiple branches complained that they paid more in some areas than in others.

The rates are set by central government not by local councils. Local councils collect the money and pass it on to central government where it is added into the general taxation pot and doled out by central government according to how they want to do it.

Graham

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[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Graham

Wrong? how so?

The VOA set the rates for both, the same council officer's collect it, I didnt have to make the cheque payable to a different body.........

Here is the VOA website

http://www.voa.gov.uk/business_rates/index.htm

look along the top row they deal with Both NNDR and council Tax, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet or if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

Just for reference on paying in here is a random council if you check the Paying in details for NNDR and Council tax you will see its same cashiers and same bank account

Link Removed

Did you get an answer from VOSA? I didnt.

 

[GJH]

Hi Graham

Wrong? how so?

The VOA set the rates for both, the same council officer's collect it, I didnt have to make the cheque payable to a different body.........

No George, the VOA do not set the rates. The VOA are responsible for valuing properties. The rate in the pound for NNDR (for business properties) is set by central government and the amount of council tax per band (for domestic properties) is set by local councils.

Just for reference on paying in here is a random council if you check the Paying in details for NNDR and Council tax you will see its same cashiers and same bank account

If you look at my previous post you will see that I did say that local councils collect NNDR - but they do so on behalf of central government and have to pass the money on (which they don't with CT).

Did you get an answer from VOSA? I didnt.

I didn't realise you had actually written to VOSA, you didn't mention it. Under FoI they have 20 working days to reply so it could be that there will be a little while to wait yet.

Graham

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Graham

Ethier way its still a property tax and even though its sent to Goverment it is Paid back to the council's

here is a description from a council

Business Rates (or National Non-Domestic Rates) are another form of local taxation. Together with Council Tax and central government grants they help to fund local services.......

I didnt mention it because there had been no response, we shall see what they say and more important how they say it.

 

[GJH]

Hi Graham

Ethier way its still a property tax and even though its sent to Goverment it is Paid back to the council's

here is a description from a council

Business Rates (or National Non-Domestic Rates) are another form of local taxation. Together with Council Tax and central government grants they help to fund local services.......

Yes, NNDR is still a property tax - but its central nature makes it very different from CT.

The amount of redistributed non-domestic rates which any individual council receives back from central government (if, indeed, it can actually be identified separately from other element of revenue support grant) bears no relation to the amount of NNDR raised locally as, like all RSG elements, it is calculated on what central government think the local council should spend.

You may be interested in the Audit Commission's analysis of why 2003/4 CT increases were so high - Here - as it includes some detail of how local authority spending is funded.

Hi Graham
I didnt mention it because there had been no response, we shall see what they say and more important how they say it.

Thanks. I've actually sent an enquiry off myself this morning to jolly them along. We'll see who gets a response first

Graham

 

[ukrv]

In an attempt to calm you boys down a bit, I sent a few FOIs off myself

The first reply, from the VOA is :-

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST

I refer to your email dated 13th September 2007.

I confirm that the Valuation Office Agency has no knowledge of the content of your email, has no information concerning this subject and has not been involved in discussions concerning the taxing of Motor homes.

I would point out, however, that under existing rules, a motor home qualifies as a caravan under existing legislation*. If such a caravan is used as a permanent sole or main residence, and is located on a recognised pitch, and the vehicle always returns to that pitch, then the pitch will fall to be treated as a dwelling for Council Tax purposes. Similarly, if such a vehicle became permanently located on such a site, the pitch together with the caravan would be treated as the dwelling.

The treatment of caravans for Council Tax purposes is published in the Council Tax Manual Practice Note 7 available on the VOA website. (Link Removed)

That scenario appears to be different from the content of your email.

Yours sincerely

Justin Giles
Justin Giles
Council Tax (Technical)
Valuation Office Agency

* A caravan is defined in section 66(7) of the LGFA 1988 by reference to Part I of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. That Act, as amended, by S.13 of The Caravan Sites Act 1968, provides that:
“Caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted…..”

Still waiting on VOSA.

Paul

(Have I really got that much time on my hands )

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[GJH]

Maybe VOSA like me because I got a more or less immediate reply.

Sent at 09:14 this morning to <Inform@vosa.gov.uk> "Can you please tell me if VOSA is involved with, or has any knowledge of, any proposals (draft, consultative or otherwise) for introducing council tax charges on motorhomes (e.g. by including motorhomes as second or holiday homes for the purpose of calculating council tax)."

Reply at 10:50 this morning from Colin Purnell, Information Access "VOSA has no knowledge of this. I would suggest that the best Government Department to contact would be the Department for Communities and Local Government."

As that is the department which I contacted previously I think we can now end the speculation and say that the original document shown to George and his mate was the work of a Wazzock

Graham

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Nice one Graham,

Damn they must like you or not like me so much.oh:

Hi Paul

we cool no need to calm us down

at least VOSA didnt reply to you instantly, gives me hope that its nothing personal:Blush:

 

[pappajohn]

does it really matter. as graham said in an earlier post we still have to pay the tax no matter who sets the rate.!!!!!!!!!!!!