Could i damage my battery

[kingoftheroad]

I have a new lithium leisure battery fitted and i definitely want to fit the new Victron 50amp charger when it's finally released, but, the release date, appears to keep getting pushed back, the problem i have is that we go to France/Spain for two months 20th April, so the latest I would need the charger, to give me a chance to fit, would be the 19th April, which is now looking unlikely.

For this two month holiday break only, could I get away without a DC to DC charger being installed, or could I damage my battery and/or alternator?

 

[Lenny HB]

Will the standard fusing in the Hymer take those sorts of currents?

Fused at 50 amps but it's a horrible maxi blade fuse, wiring is 16mm sq so depending on cable run you could exceed 50 amps but if the van is a few years old the relay contacts could be carboned up so will probably limit the current.

When fitting a B2B it is best to change that fuse for a Midi fuse & bypass the EBL.

 

[kingoftheroad]

Fused at 50 amps but it's a horrible maxi blade fuse, wiring is 16mm sq so depending on cable run you could exceed 50 amps but if the van is a few years old the relay contacts could be carboned up so will probably limit the current.

When fitting a B2B it is best to change that fuse for a Midi fuse & bypass the EBL.

Fantastic, thanks for that, hopefully, might still get a charger before we go

 

[beachwomble]

Just a thought other B2Bs are readily available

Indeed. This German installer found the Votronic DC/DC charger to be better.

 

[Lenny HB]

Indeed. This German installer found the Votronic DC/DC charger to be better.

I'll take your word for it, I couldn't understand a word he said.

Votronic stuff is good it's more expensive, biggest advantage of Victron is the inergation with other Victron equipment. I wouldn't even consider the old 30 amp unit but the 50 appears to be a good bit of kit for the money.

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[autorouter]

One thing not mentioned so far, if you want to avoid charging from the alternator for any reason, you could pull the 50A fuse next to the starter battery. That will stop the charge from the alternator, and won't affect anything else like the fridge or the starter battery charging from hookup. I'm not convinced it's necessary but it's an easy option if you think it's a good idea.

 

[AdrianChen]

Indeed. This German installer found the Votronic DC/DC charger to be better.

Some of the reasons were a bit tenuous, and more about what they are used to doing - the comparison if the B2B is not part of a system with other Victron kit is less compelling of course, so odd when they routinely fit Victron kit, but ignore the integration..

 

[EuroTrotters]

Have a word with RogerIvy he may have them in stock by then.

I am awaiting stock from last year

 

[MichaelT]

I have a new lithium leisure battery fitted and i definitely want to fit the new Victron 50amp charger when it's finally released, but, the release date, appears to keep getting pushed back, the problem i have is that we go to France/Spain for two months 20th April, so the latest I would need the charger, to give me a chance to fit, would be the 19th April, which is now looking unlikely.

For this two month holiday break only, could I get away without a DC to DC charger being installed, or could I damage my battery and/or alternator?

I've had a 205a lithium for over 2 years without a B2B without issues.

 

[Lenny HB]

I've had a 205a lithium for over 2 years without a B2B without issues.

IMO not worth the risk.

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[kingoftheroad]

One thing not mentioned so far, if you want to avoid charging from the alternator for any reason, you could pull the 50A fuse next to the starter battery. That will stop the charge from the alternator, and won't affect anything else like the fridge or the starter battery charging from hookup. I'm not convinced it's necessary but it's an easy option if you think it's a good idea.

One thing not mentioned so far, if you want to avoid charging from the alternator for any reason, you could pull the 50A fuse next to the starter battery. That will stop the charge from the alternator, and won't affect anything else like the fridge or the starter battery charging from hookup. I'm not convinced it's necessary but it's an easy option if you think it's a good idea.

Yes, great idea, I've never actually seen the fuse, but will take a look, to see how easy a job it is, am I correct in saying, this is also the fuse I need to disconnect, after fitting the DC to DC charger?

 

[kingoftheroad]

I've had a 205a lithium for over 2 years without a B2B without issues.

Yes, there appears to be a mixed opinion on this subject

 

[kingoftheroad]

IMO not worth the risk.

Agree, Lithium upgrade is an expensive bit of kit and I'd rather air on the side of caution and improve the system further, rather than potentially damaging it

 

[autorouter]

Yes, great idea, I've never actually seen the fuse, but will take a look, to see how easy a job it is, am I correct in saying, this is also the fuse I need to disconnect, after fitting the DC to DC charger?

Yes, but that only applies to Schaudt EBLs, which have a separate supply to the split charge relay, with a separate fused wire for all the other functions. Other 12V distribution/fuseboxes like CBE, Sargent etc usually have only one combined supply, so if you disconnect that you have to find a way to supply all the other functions except the split charge relay. It's quite possible, but how to do it depends on the details of the setup.

 

[kingoftheroad]

One thing not mentioned so far, if you want to avoid charging from the alternator for any reason, you could pull the 50A fuse next to the starter battery. That will stop the charge from the alternator, and won't affect anything else like the fridge or the starter battery charging from hookup. I'm not convinced it's necessary but it's an easy option if you think it's a good idea.

If I'm correct from reading one of your previous posts, that I can do the following on my van (Hymer with standard EBL101) and I intend to fit the new Victron 12-12 50amp DC to DC charger.
Remove the starter battery (SB) wire from the back of the EBL and connect it to the (input) (SB) side of the new charger (with a new 60amp fuse between).
Run a new wire from the (output) (Lb) side of the new charger and connect to the (SB) input at the back of the EBL with a new 60amp fuse inbetween.

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[Lenny HB]

If I'm correct from reading one of your previous posts, that I can do the following on my van (Hymer with standard EBL101) and I intend to fit the new Victron 12-12 50amp DC to DC charger.
Remove the starter battery (SB) wire from the back of the EBL and connect it to the (input) (SB) side of the new charger (with a new 60amp fuse between).
Run a new wire from the (output) (Lb) side of the new charger and connect to the (SB) input at the back of the EBL with a new 60amp fuse inbetween.

Best not to do that far better to bypass the EBL.

 

[kingoftheroad]

Best not to do that far better to bypass the EBL.

Right ok, keep separate, and from what i gather, i disconnect the existing relay I believe? And presuming this is a yes, my fridge etc, will still function ok?

 

[Lenny HB]

Right ok, keep separate, and from what i gather, i disconnect the existing relay I believe? And presuming this is a yes, my fridge etc, will still function ok?

Fridge function or mains charging not affected uses a separate cable that feeds into the front of the EBL.

Disconnect the starter battery input from the EBL and if the cable is suitable use for the input to the B2B and connect the output of the B2B direct to leisure battery with suitable fuses.
Hymer use 16 mm sq cable to the EBL so should be OK depending on cable length. The 50 amp fuse by the starter battery needs replacing with a 60 amp and its best to fit a Midi fuse holder & fuse those Maxi blade fuses that Hymer fit are prone to overheating.
Disconnecting the feed to the EBL disables the split charge relay.

Doing it this way you avoids problems caused by the split charge relay contacts, they often carbon up reducing the current they can pass.

 

[kingoftheroad]

Fridge function or mains charging not affected uses a separate cable that feeds into the front of the EBL.

Disconnect the starter battery input from the EBL and if the cable is suitable use for the input to the B2B and connect the output of the B2B direct to leisure battery with suitable fuses.
Hymer use 16 mm sq cable to the EBL so should be OK depending on cable length. The 50 amp fuse by the starter battery needs replacing with a 60 amp and its best to fit a Midi fuse holder & fuse those Maxi blade fuses that Hymer fit are prone to overheating.
Disconnecting the feed to the EBL disables the split charge relay.

Doing it this way you avoids problems caused by the split charge relay contacts, they often carbon up reducing the current they can pass.

Fantastic, thankyou, I'm trying to get my head around the job and all the bits I need, so I'm ready to go, thanks again

 

[AdrianChen]

Just swapped my old orion 30 for a new XS 50amp this morning. Didnt have time (or energy) to upgrade the 16mm input cable and 50amp fuse, but will at some point. Set the XS for lithium etc then limited the output to 35amp and input to 40amp as a quick test. All good and at 35amps out it showed an input current of 37.2amps, which will be fine until the cable gets changed perhaps even a little bit higher? Only ran it for 15mins then had to leave for home, might up the fuse tomorrow to 60amp to avoid it getting hot or adding resistance.

So if you can get one in time, it's easy enough to tailor it to any existing wiring... Good luck!

Anyone want a 30amp Orion Isolated!

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[kingoftheroad]

Think I'm sorted now, short term, without having a charger installed for the duration of this holiday and long term, with regards to actually fitting the charger when they become available.
Thanks everyone, for some great feedback, it's put me at great ease, what a fantastic forum

 

[kingoftheroad]

Just swapped my old orion 30 for a new XS 50amp this morning. Didnt have time (or energy) to upgrade the 16mm input cable and 50amp fuse, but will at some point. Set the XS for lithium etc then limited the output to 35amp and input to 40amp as a quick test. All good and at 35amps out it showed an input current of 37.2amps, which will be fine until the cable gets changed perhaps even a little bit higher? Only ran it for 15mins then had to leave for home, might up the fuse tomorrow to 60amp to avoid it getting hot or adding resistance.

So if you can get one in time, it's easy enough to tailor it to any existing wiring... Good luck!

Anyone want a 30amp Orion Isolated!

Great, thanks, are stocks becoming available now, did you have it on pre-order

 

[AdrianChen]

Great, thanks, are stocks becoming available now, did you have it on pre-order

It was ordered some time ago last year through RogerIvy and has been waiting for me to get over an op!

 

[kingoftheroad]

It was ordered some time ago last year through RogerIvy and has been waiting for me to get over an op!

Ok, thanks