Connect victron bluesmart charger via EBL119

[Lenny HB]

I would bypass the EBL, with normal batteries charging will only draw max current for a short time with Lithium they will charge at full wack for most of the charging time.
Only got to look at the amount of EBL's that have melted socket housings & cables from running the fridge, should be enough to put you off.

 

[gerry mcg]

^That is what Udo said too

"Normally the 2 pole connector is included to the set of LAS 1218. So difficult to give advice where to buy.
We do not send any spare parts to the customer directly.

In this matter I would recommend to do 2 wires with 4qmm from the charger directly to the leisure battery poles fused with a 20A fuse.
This is the best and easiest way to connect the additional charger to the system"

I'll just wire direct to to the leisure battery, bypassing the EBL

 

[Ditcha]

^That is what Udo said too

"Normally the 2 pole connector is included to the set of LAS 1218. So difficult to give advice where to buy.
We do not send any spare parts to the customer directly.

In this matter I would recommend to do 2 wires with 4qmm from the charger directly to the leisure battery poles fused with a 20A fuse.
This is the best and easiest way to connect the additional charger to the system"

I'll just wire direct to to the leisure battery, bypassing the EBL

Just a point you will lose the start battery charge from the EBL doing it that way so will need to make provision for this.

 

[Lenny HB]

Just a point you will lose the start battery charge from the EBL doing it that way so will need to make provision for this.

No the EBL will still charge the starter battery when you pull the 20 amp fuse it only stops the leisure battery charging.

 

[Ditcha]

No the EBL will still charge the starter battery when you pull the 20 amp fuse it only stops the leisure battery charging.

That's what I thought but autorouter said that it doesn't unless you use a auxiliary charger through block 7 on the EBL see post #2

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

That's what I thought but autorouter said that it doesn't unless you use a auxiliary charger through block 7 on the EBL see post #2

You have got your numbers in a twis.
See post #11

 

[autorouter]

See post #18

 

[Ditcha]

You have got your numbers in a twis.
See post #11

So does it or doesn't it charge the starter with the charger 20amp fuse removed and no auxiliary charger connected at block 7?

 

[Pausim]

So does it or doesn't it charge the starter with the charger 20amp fuse removed and no auxiliary charger connected at block 7?

Udo Lang says it does. I think the mains connection to the EBL closes the relay for the trickle charge circuit. However it is not powered by the EBL charger but from the leisure battery connection which is being charged by the new mains charger. The mains power to the EBL is needed to activate the relay but the removal of the 20A fuse stops the EBL charger output.

 

[autorouter]

So does it or doesn't it charge the starter with the charger 20amp fuse removed and no auxiliary charger connected at block 7?

It depends what you mean by 'it'. If you remove the 20A fuse from the internal charger slot, there is no output from the internal mains charger to anywhere, leisure battery or starter battery.

Inside the EBL there is a shunt. One side is connected to the leisure battery, via the 50A main fuse. the other side of the shunt has various connections, including
the internal charger output via the 20A fuse
the solar from the 3-way connector via a 15A fuse
the auxiliary charger from the 2-way connector via a 20A fuse.
the starter battery via the starter relay and a voltage reducer, then to the fridge power wire and 20A fuse to the starter battery.

If there is input to the solar connection, or input to the auxiliary battery connection, the leisure battery will be charged by those chargers, whether the EBL internal charger is on, off, or has the fuse removed.

If the internal charger fuse is removed, no output can reach the shunt to get to the leisure battery.

Now for the starter battery: the starter battery will be connected to the shunt only if the starter relay is on. That can only be powered from the internal charger. It's a second output, a signal, which turns on the relay and lights up the mains indicator on the display.

If the starter relay is on, anything connected to the shunt can also charge the starter battery (through the voltage reducer). That includes the solar and auxiliary chargers, and the internal charger if its fuse is inserted.

So, can the internal charger charge the starter battery if the internal charger is powered but the fuse is removed? No.
Can the EBL, with solar and/or auxiliary charger connected, charge the starter battery if the internal charger is powered but the fuse is removed? Yes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ditcha]

So my quote at #33 was right and not wrong.

 

[Pausim]

Just a point you will lose the start battery charge from the EBL doing it that way so will need to make provision for this.

So my quote at #33 was right and not wrong.

No the EBL still supplies the trickle charge connections, it is just that the power is now coming from the leisure battery and the new mains charger not from the LAS 1218 module within the EBL. There is no need to make any further provision.

 

[autorouter]

So my quote at #33 was right and not wrong.

You are right in that the added charger, going direct to the leisure battery, will make no contribution to charging the starter battery. However to be accurate, the picture in post #1 shows the solar connected (3-way ). That will be able to trickle-charge the starter battery, but only if the internal charger is powered so it can switch the starter relay on.

Also, as Pausim says, there is a path from the leisure battery, through the shunt, then through the starter relay if the internal charger is powered, then through the voltage reducer to the starter battery. So if the leisure battery is being actively charged, then the starter battery will be trickle-charged.

Whether the leisure battery will charge the starter battery when it's not on charge will depend on the battery voltages and the details of the 'voltage reducer', which I don't have.

 

[gerry mcg]

I'm kind of resigned to not you be able to wire the 15A charger via the EBL due to the cable size limitations posed by the 10A mate n lock connectors and I assume the 3.5mm ones won't fit the female connection in Block 7 of the EBL.
In that case, I'm going to need to connect the Charger direct to the leisure battery.

I need to add a positive feed for the charger somehow

Currently, my 50A B2B and EBL are under the passenger seat and my 200Ah lithium battery is under the drivers seat.

There is not a lot of space left on the positive battery terminal so add another cable and little space to fit a a Busbar close to the battery under the driver seat.

Is there anything stopping me

• Fitting a +ive busbar around the passenger seat area
• Wiring a short 16mm2 cable from the B2B output to the busbar,
• rewiring the existing 16mm2 B2B output to leisure battery so it connects the leisure battery to the busbar
• Mount the the Victron charger close to the passenger seat and connecting the + charger output to the +ive busbar
• This means the same 16mm2 cable will supply both the B2B and charger current to the leisure battery.

This would prevent me having to route another cable across the cab.

I've already got a Busbar on the Ground side of my Victron BMV shunt to accommodate all the ground terminals

I‘ve wired the Victron charger and the Votronic B2B to a Busbar, then a single 16mm2 dorm the busbar to the lithium leisure battery and all works well.
ive also added a battery isolator between the Busbar and leisure battery so i can prevent the B2B and Victron charger sending current to the leisure battery when it is charged

 

[Mrjenben]

Also, as @Pausim says, there is a path from the leisure battery, through the shunt, then through the starter relay if the internal charger is powered, then through the voltage reducer to the starter battery. So if the leisure battery is being actively charged, then the starter battery will be trickle-charged.

I just found this out when installing a Lithium battery and trying things out.

One thing to bear in mind is that if you disconnect the internal charger fuse and fit a separate leisure charger then whenever the EBL is mains powered then there is a direct connection made between your Starter and Leisure batteries (albeit current limited). And the internal EBL mains charger is disconnected from both.

So if you ever plug the van into the mains but don’t turn on your new additional charger then because of this internal connection then your leisure battery will directly charge the starter battery via the EBL with no mains assistance. I know it depends on the state of charge of both batteries but mine started charging the starter battery at 2-3 amps.

Not a regular scenario I know, but probably of interest to anyone with Lithium’s thinking they can leave their van on hookup on long term storage but have the leisure battery charger unplugged to stop a float charge.

Edit- just noticed autorouter has already pointed this out further down the thread - apologies

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

So if you ever plug the van into the mains but don’t turn on your new additional charger then because of this internal connection then your leisure battery will directly charge the starter battery via the EBL with no mains assistance.

I left the new mains charger permanently connected to the AC circuit so whenever connected to EHU the power was supplied by the charger. Not sure why some people fell the need to switch the charger separately.

 

[Mrjenben]

I left the new mains charger permanently connected to the AC circuit so whenever connected to EHU the power was supplied by the charger. Not sure why some people fell the need to switch the charger separately.

I don’t think many actually turn off the mains to the charger, but lots do want to stop their lithium battery getting a float charge on long term storage so effectively it is off however you do it.

Depending on how you wire it in it, it would be easy to accidentally leave the leisure battery maintaining the starter via the EBL and thereby draining at a faster rate than expected. I think gerry mcg has it sorted, but just wanted to point it out in case anyone reading this was planning an install atm.

 

[gerry mcg]

I don’t think many actually turn off the mains to the charger, but lots do want to stop their lithium battery getting a float charge on long term storage so effectively it is off however you do it.

Depending on how you wire it in it, it would be easy to accidentally leave the leisure battery maintaining the starter via the EBL and thereby draining at a faster rate than expected. I think gerry mcg has it sorted, but just wanted to point it out in case anyone reading this was planning an install atm.

The way I have wired my B2B / Victron charger (directly to the lithium Liesure battery and bypassing the EBL) means My starter battery is not connected to the EBL119 at all (except via the vanbitz battery Master)
So I should not see any reverse current from my leisure battery to the Starter battery in the eventually i don't switch on the victron charger