Component quality - Motorhomes vs Boats

[dash300]

Nice boat the 38....Big lump too when they're out of the water and fairly wide too at 13', for a 38' boat. That's a 38 on my avatar.

I suspected it was. But a comfortable lazy old lump. Did the East Coast from Plymouth to Leith and back in 2019 as a family relay with a new Swift Caravan pacing on land. The Swift Caravan was fine but what an eye opener. Put together by some work experience students it would appear. The world can count themselves fortunate Swift have not ventured into boat production!

 

[John Barrett]

I'm not sure you understood the point the Autotrail CEO was making. MHs are in cross section the worst possible shape compared to a typical boat. They are also built with major weight constraints. With these constraints they still have to cope with driving over sleeping policemen and potholes. Boats get a hammering in rough weather and can slam into waves but they are solid enough to be able to cope even when the occupants are going green - I've been there.

Your yacht survived because it had one piece curved hulls which would have been very strong where it mattered because weight wouldn't have been much of a consideration when it was designed. A MH by comparison is a mobile pack of cards.

Agreed. Monocoque rules OK!

 

[funflair]

A princess V65 was mentioned earlier in this thread and a quick google shows a used 2009 model at £755k so is it really a good comparison to your average motorhome?

 

[ManTheVan]

Our beautiful yacht was a Westerly Discus, built like the proverbial outhouse but sailed like a dream with a very comfortable motion. Everything below was solid, hand-finished and extremely high quality. When we were researching a MH, we looked at many makes and settled on Rapido because it was the only make we could find that seemed to be built like our boat, solid and beautifully-designed.

Honestly, some of the brand new MHs we looked at were already falling apart after just the delivery trip. Our Westerly was 40 years old and still rock solid. Our Rapido is 10 years old and just the same.

 

[Peppadog]

I own a 32’ sailing boat, and our old (2007) Hymer. Yes, the yacht’s material/components are mostly better. Solid teak tables, grab rails. Teak veneered marine ply for panel sides etc. Due to no weight constraints. But as has been said, all that is built into a shaped hull and coachroof. Hardly a flat area at all. A motorhome body, and its lightweight contents, all sit on a flat floor, and it is square, more or less. So although a boat takes much more impact and load in one rough weather day out than a motorhome does in a year, the flexing of that square body plays hell on the joints and seams of the motorhome.

In component terms. Stainless steel is commonly used on boats for hinges etc. Electric panels etc are, at least on my boat, mostly soldered rather than crimped or whatever. But its much the same stuff I think.

So not much comparison fits really. Other than reduced costs using cheaper materials and components makes the end product more affordable. Thats true for both.

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[Wannabee]

We've been boating for 40 years and new to motorhomes. Our Compass (Elddis) is a mix of dire and quite good, and there are 2 issues at work we've discovered. One is the quality of materials which is a mix of encouragingly good such as cupboards and appliances, and others that resemble a 1980's Fletcher speedboat. The other is the build quality. One self tapper holding trim on at an angle, sink drain that wasn't tightened, exposed mains wiring behind fridge, drop down bed that blew the fuse the second time we used it (and the fuse wasn't even in the fusebox, taped to the wiring loom behind it) are just some examples. I don't know how others go on if you aren't handy with DIY skills, as many have said there are likely to be several faults waiting to be discovered in a new van.

Our experience with boats (the last was a 36ft Beneteau) was generally positive and the build better than our van. I get it that there's a need for light weight vans for payload etc, but modern yachts also chase light weight so they turn quickly and are nimble so sail well. Apart from the hull the other parts are fairly flimsy.

Some friends of ours went to a show a few years ago, looking at family caravans. Horrified at the flimsy build and having young children, they ended up drifting onto the couple of boats on display and ended up buying one of those instead.

 

[Coolcats]

Our Hymer Grand Canyon has plastic hinges and only one strut support on its overhead lockers, is this really acceptable on a 80k van!
We also have a particularly naff kitchen tap that's already let us down once.
Apart from that its been fault free but those hinges do bother me, a failure waiting to happen.

The hinges are pretty robust for what they are considering the composite locker door which is made of a very light yet robust composite material will last years. Given the actual weight of the locker door a single strut will be fine.

I recently worked on a house where it had the metal door hinges bent out of shape, the quality taps were dripping due to over tightening when switching off. Metal draw runners bent out of shape internal shelves broken and the side of one wardrobe pushed aside along with another wardrobe where the doors had been ripped off let alone the damage to the kitchen furniture (Tenants did this).

Your Hymer will be fine as long as you don’t have kids slamming or swinging off the lockers.

 

[Stuart]

Our 2019 Elddis was fairly quiet compared to the rattles in the Chausson until I drove over the Matterhorn of speed humps at a motorway service area. Now everything rattles.

 

[L' Hobo]

I have never had or even priced a boat so wonder is the comparison is a fair one? on our van the electronics, water pump, toilet etc are all as used in the marine environment so if the failure rate was/is higher I could only guess that the vibrations in a motorhome were in some way to blame.

I also wonder if you get what you pay for as our van is 3 times the price of a Hymer GC, to be honest I would be upset if the components were not better

Forgive me but I'm not sure that's true, Shurflo for example, do a MARINE variant in their water pump range?

 

[Peppadog]

You don't see cassette toilets on boats either. Most are like this:

Manual Toilets / Toilets / Marine Toilets / Marine / Xylem JabscoShop - Jabsco & Rule Pumps and more - from the experts

JabscoShop - The largest source of Jabsco & Rule Industrial and Marine Pumps, Toilets, Blowers, Searchlights, Spares and Accessories on the web.

www.jabscoshop.com

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[L' Hobo]

Never owned a boat but many of our main roads are becoming boneshakers. The worst I've driven on lately was a steep uphill stretch of the A37 in Zummerzet where HGVs have destroyed the wearing surface to create a cratered rather than merely potholed effect and is in urgent need of total resurfacing. I expected the internal lockers to fall off walls it was so rough. Harsh ride with those Michelin Camper tyres doesn't help.

In my Merchant Navy days, I crossed the Bay of Biscay in a Force 11 gale and my job was to 'standby' the manual steering at the stern of the ship (below the poop deck) in-case the hydraulic steering malfunctioned, potholes do not compare!

 

[Notts Archer]

Apart from some of the previously mentioned cheaper fittings on my Elddis that annoy me, the biggest grip I have is the fitted GPS. To save a few pennies Elddis have fitted a car GPS that is not fit for purpose for a motorhomer . Unfortunately TomTom don’t do a MH replacement without replacing the complete facia.

 

[Peppadog]

In my Merchant Navy days, I crossed the Bay of Biscay in a Force 11 gale and my job was to 'standby' the manual steering at the stern of the ship (below the poop deck) in-case the hydraulic steering malfunctioned, potholes do not compare!

and thats without the fear factor

 

[tonyidle]

One is the quality of materials which is a mix of encouragingly good such as cupboards and appliances, and others that resemble a 1980's Fletcher speedboat. The other is the build quality. One self tapper holding trim on at an angle, sink drain that wasn't tightened, exposed mains wiring behind fridge, drop down bed that blew the fuse the second time we used it (and the fuse wasn't even in the fusebox, taped to the wiring loom behind it) are just some examples. I don't know how others go on if you aren't handy with DIY skills, as many have said there are likely to be several faults waiting to be discovered in a new van.

Exactly my sentiments and they apply to every leisure vehicle I've owned. I understand cost constraints but not the total lack of workmanship.

 

[robnchris]

I'm not sure you understood the point the Autotrail CEO was making. MHs are in cross section the worst possible shape compared to a typical boat. They are also built with major weight constraints. With these constraints they still have to cope with driving over sleeping policemen and potholes. Boats get a hammering in rough weather and can slam into waves but they are solid enough to be able to cope even when the occupants are going green - I've been there.

Your yacht survived because it had one piece curved hulls which would have been very strong where it mattered because weight wouldn't have been much of a consideration when it was designed. A MH by comparison is a mobile pack of cards.

I understand one thing and that is each are built to their needs and uses, with todays CDC body panels, Adnavced sealants and glues it's a poor excuse that they can't keep rain out of body shell.
Let's not forget, yes the hull has the shape you describe, but the upper coachroof sections complete with hole for the mast, port holes, air vents and large windows most of which open and the decking are bonded to that fabulous Hull, yet still no water leaks.

So yes I do understand the point which the CEO was making and it was a very poor one.

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[robnchris]

Robnchris, harsh environment, you ever seen central manchester or Birmingham, friday night by the canals. Now that is a harsh environment.

Hahaha Good point, Well made....

 

[funflair]

Forgive me but I'm not sure that's true, Shurflo for example, do a MARINE variant in their water pump range?

True but I think it’s usually just a bit of extra moisture protection for electrics.

You don't see cassette toilets on boats either. Most are like this:

Manual Toilets / Toilets / Marine Toilets / Marine / Xylem JabscoShop - Jabsco & Rule Pumps and more - from the experts

JabscoShop - The largest source of Jabsco & Rule Industrial and Marine Pumps, Toilets, Blowers, Searchlights, Spares and Accessories on the web.

www.jabscoshop.com

So is ours

 

[robnchris]

Sorry but I’m with the Autotrail CEO here robnchris. I can’t afford a boat but I was very lucky to have parents who could when I was growing up. From our first Norman 20 with 15hp outboard, through Princesses 25,33,48 and finally their « forever » boat, a 2 yr old Princess V65 hardtop (with the small engine option of twin 1400hp diesels), we went everywhere in all weathers, and in all sea states and none of them ever rattled, creaked, groaned, banged or crashed like my Bailey.

So you are actually agreeing with me saying your parents boats didn't rattle but your Bailey did.

 

[MR BLO]

I am saying that MH rattle because the stress loading is higher than on a boat. 4 points of contact with minimal articulation at a mean speed of approach over the ground of 40kts whilst built from flatpack furniture to a weight limit.
A boat is supported across its full length beam and draft on a media that moves with it and at a lower mean speed of approach over the ground.
But I agree with you completely about the fact that the MH leak and get damp floors etc. is more than likely a result of poor design and build quality. If you know that the van is going to crash and wobble, why build in warranty weak points.

 

[glenn2926]

Most of the festivals I’ve worked I see the same people doing the litter picking. They most certainly don’t give their wages to charity. They move around the country doing the litter picking for the season. It’s their job for the summer.

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[Peppadog]

True but I think it’s usually just a bit of extra moisture protection for electrics.

So is ours

Are you saying your 'van has moisture protection, or a marine toilet? If the later, how does the plunger suck water and then exhaust it. Does it suck from a tank and into a fixed black tank?

 

[funflair]

Are you saying your 'van has moisture protection, or a marine toilet? If the later, how does the plunger suck water and then exhaust it. Does it suck from a tank and into a fixed black tank?

We have the Dometic macerator toilet as fitted to some boats as I understand it, ours flushes with fresh water from the main tank and collects macerated waste in a black tank.

 

[Peppadog]

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks. They are not common on boats yet, but probably will be.

edit: Though the manual plunger type I linked to works like a macerator in reality. Just through pressure though a small outlet pipe. This then goes into a holding tank that you can have pumped out, or discharge at sea once about three miles off shore.

 

[glenn2926]

Most of the festivals I’ve worked I see the same people doing the litter picking. They most certainly don’t give their wages to charity. They move around the country doing the litter picking for the season. It’s their job for the summer.

Sorry readers, how I managed to post this here is beyond me. It’s supposed to be in the rubbish at festivals thread.

 

[Martyn911]

I know a lot of fellow Motorhomes are, like us, ex-boaters, and am wondering whether the same thought had struck them.

I understand perfectly the need to build down to a weight, and so accept the relative flimsiness of the structure above the chassis when compared with boats, which even in the modern era are relatively substantial.

I can also understand, a bit, that fittings, like say cupboard latches, and hinges need to be similarly light, and of relatively poor quality (not saying bad, this is all relative). However some of the other stuff, common to both boating and Motorhoming seems to be less robust. You could almost say trashy.


In our six your old van I have experienced issues with water pumps, inverters, switches, electronics, lighting and other niggles. Many of these components are common to boating as well.

That is not to say our boats didn't have failures too, it is just that in fixing them I rarely felt I was dealing with something poorly made or designed.

Could it be that the harsher movement of motorhomes compared to that of boats is to blame, or is our market one that shortcuts can be hidden?

I'd be very interested to hear others' views.

You need to buy a Concorde they call them land yachts

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[L' Hobo]

and thats without the fear factor

I wasn't afraid, I was too busy trying to keep my breakfast inside me.

 

[SteveRallye]

Or a Moblivette K yacht, well built for the money and much better looking than the Concord.And it even looks good inside, see the reveiws on Utube.

 

[Molly A]

We used to have a Contess 32 sailboat, built in 1979. Incredibly strong, solidly built cabinetry, stainless steel or brass fittings, but quite skinny with modest internal volumes. We now have a 40ft Wauquiez pilot saloon sailboat, again, a quality boat with quality fittings and teak cabinetry but with good internal volumes. Yes, she creaks a bit when we are slamming upwind in a seaway but she is 10 tonnes unladen and is capable of a circumnavigation. She is finished to a higher quality than many production yachts. Some years ago my partner did a delivery trip of a brand new 54 ft Beneteau from la Rochelle to Lymington. Going round Ushant in very rough weather the ceiling panels were falling down around him and there were leaks from hatches. Modern boats are built to a price too, frequently to attract the charter market where large internal volumes are the key driver and this means that the build quality is compromised. However, motor homes are generally ridiculously lightly built - it really is not acceptable.

 

[John Barrett]

We used to have a Contess 32 sailboat, built in 1979. Incredibly strong, solidly built cabinetry, stainless steel or brass fittings, but quite skinny with modest internal volumes.

SNIP

I owned Contessa 32 'White Knight of Purbeck' before the SHE 36. Fabulous sea keeper but a bit small for us after I'd fitted central heating, refrigeration, teak cockpit seats etc!

 

[nicholsong]

I have never had or even priced a boat so wonder is the comparison is a fair one? on our van the electronics, water pump, toilet etc are all as used in the marine environment so if the failure rate was/is higher I could only guess that the vibrations in a motorhome were in some way to blame.

I also wonder if you get what you pay for as our van is 3 times the price of a Hymer GC, to be honest I would be upset if the components were not better

Martin

You will find out in 10+ years

Geoff

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