Complete Electrical Novice

[bigtwin]

Yes, that’s the one I use and I’d recommend.

Hmm, not sure that I would; see my earlier post quoted below.

Perhaps, but I’ve just been helping a chap on the Cala de Mijas Aire with a problem with his solar charging and am shocked to discover that his Renogy 30A DC to DC charger (with integral MPPT solar charger) has a 30V solar voltage input limit.

Ian

 

[Abacist]

I started without much of a clue but I used to study Techno posts which were so clear and helpful for a novice. Maybe his posts have gone now that he is no longer with us Jim

 

[stevewagner]

I’ve tried to Renogy B2B chargers and bot failed in less than a month. Their after sales d
service was the worst I have ever experience. They have no UK office and make you jump through hoops before even considering a refund, a truly awful company to deal with. However I also have a Renogy 2000w inverter with automatic changeover built in and it has been faultless!

 

[dawsey]

Hmm, not sure that I would; see my earlier post quoted below.



Ian

Not sure I understand this…? Reads like “I read the spec sheet and discovered that the wrong component was specified”??

 

[dawsey]

I’ve tried to Renogy B2B chargers and bot failed in less than a month. Their after sales d
service was the worst I have ever experience. They have no UK office and make you jump through hoops before even considering a refund, a truly awful company to deal with. However I also have a Renogy 2000w inverter with automatic changeover built in and it has been faultless!

Fair dos. I can only speak as I find, and do have a little experience with looking at products and determining whether it’s a quality offering or not. I bought all Renogy stuff and found them willing to replace anything with an issue instantly. It’s a US company with manufacturing in China. All the stuff I fitted has worked continuously and faultlessly, bar the odd reset, for a year and a half. I think it is all good stuff, and very reasonably priced, especially compared to much of the absolute garbage that’s for sale online.

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[bigtwin]

Not sure I understand this…? Reads like “I read the spec sheet and discovered that the wrong component was specified”??

Yes, I guess that’s a fair accusation. The fact remains I was shocked that the product had such a restrictive specification. Without checking, my recollection is that the, lower spec’d Victron controllers accept a 75V input so was surprised/shocked that the Renogy was limited to 30V.

It wasn’t my kit; I was troubleshooting a problem for a fellow motorhomer in trouble.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

I’ve tried to Renogy B2B chargers and bot failed in less than a month. Their after sales d
service was the worst I have ever experience. They have no UK office and make you jump through hoops before even considering a refund, a truly awful company to deal with. However I also have a Renogy 2000w inverter with automatic changeover built in and it has been faultless!

Now that Victron kit has dropped so much in price might as well buy the best and you get a 5 year warranty.

 

[dawsey]

Yes, I guess that’s a fair accusation. The fact remains I was shocked that the product had such a restrictive specification. Without checking, my recollection is that the, lower spec’d Victron controllers accept a 75V input so was surprised/shocked that the Renogy was limited to 30V.

It wasn’t my kit; I was troubleshooting a problem for a fellow motorhomer in trouble.

Ian

you get what you pay for I guess. The Renogy stuff is decent enough but it isn’t top drawer stuff.

 

[bigtwin]

you get what you pay for I guess. The Renogy stuff is decent enough but it isn’t top drawer stuff.

Yes, I have no idea what it cost but would rather hope that it was cheap given its limited capabilities.

Ian

 

[oldiesontour]

Renogy does what it says 30v panel input max .Price wise victron B2B ( only) £299 Renogy B2B With mppt £199 both 30A so allowing for mppt just over 1/2. Price.I' ve had Renogy for around 10 yrs without problems.So worth considering I would think especially if you are buying a full kit

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[dawsey]

Renogy does what it says 30v panel input max .Price wise victron B2B ( only) £299 Renogy B2B With mppt £199 both 30A so allowing for mppt just over 1/2. Price.I' ve had Renogy for around 10 yrs without problems.So worth considering I would think especially if you are buying a full kit

Indeed - mines a 25/50A unit. It can handle up to 25A of solar input at up to 30V and will add 25A from alternator when engine running to deliver 50A to the lithiums. If it’s dark (or you disconnect the solar) it will take 50A from the alternator alone. It’s really quite decent kit for £220

 

[oldiesontour]

The point you raise about disconnecting the solar is well worth taking into account when installing....A relay energised by D1 or a suitable switch/ resetable fuse between panels and mppt/b2b to disconnect panels when travelling

 

[RogerIvy]

My question is simple. Can I take out the old 100amp battery and put in a 150/200amp lithium?

We get asked this question around twenty times each day at each show. At the NEC it was more likely 30 times a day.

In a nutshell: No

1. Your EHU charger may be OK if you can choose a gel or AGM setting. But you may not get the best performance from your system, and if you have good solar and DC-DC (B2B) that would probably be ok. A good 30A Victron charger is a nice-to-have, even better a Multiplus if you need to install an inverter.
2. Your solar controller might be OK in the sense that it shouldn't damage the battery. However, they are usually inexpensive to replace in the scheme of things so I would advise a good Victron MPPT.
3. Your current split-charge needs to be disabled and replaced with a DC-DC (B2B) unless it is an intelligent charger already with a Lithium profile. The Schaudt Booster module (25A) is good to leave in place. You can supplement it's charge with a Victron DC-DC but not absolutely necessary.

Our most common installs are:

1. The battery
2. DC-DC
3. Relay to disable split charge
4. MPPT controller (and sometimes more panels)
5. Battery Master
6. And to a lesser extent a Multiplus

 

[Lenny HB]

Your EHU charger may be OK if you can choose a gel or AGM setting.

Are you sure you meant to say that Roger, AGM chargers are normally 14.7v a bit high for Lithium.

 

[RogerIvy]

Are you sure you meant to say that Roger, AGM chargers are normally 14.7v a bit high for Lithium.

The BMS will stop the charging when the first cell hits it's max voltage.
However, the danger is that if you're in the unlucky group where the BMS failed and then cells swell an etc.

As you know it's best practise to not rely on one defence only. Ideally your BMS should be the last line of defence, not the only line.

As I said in another thread you were a part of, Daly were a nightmare in the old days when protection failed and cells swelled up. These days with JK and JBD I personally don't know of such a failure but I guess there must be some. JK and JBD place such priority on protection it's comforting.

So I guess it depends on how (un)lucky a person feels

But I think we'd both agree that if it was our own vehicle we'd spend the extra on a proper LiFePO4 charger!

Edit:
Just to add one thing, it must be possible to remove any desulphation, auto-repair etc.

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[AdrianChen]

The BMS will stop the charging when the first cell hits it's max voltage.
However, the danger is that if you're in the unlucky group where the BMS failed and then cells swell an etc.

As you know it's best practise to not rely on one defence only. Ideally your BMS should be the last line of defence, not the only line.

As I said in another thread you were a part of, Daly were a nightmare in the old days when protection failed and cells swelled up. These days with JK and JBD I personally don't know of such a failure but I guess there must be some. JK and JBD place such priority on protection it's comforting.

So I guess it depends on how (un)lucky a person feels

But I think we'd both agree that if it was our own vehicle we'd spend the extra on a proper LiFePO4 charger!

Edit:
Just to add one thing, it must be possible to remove any desulphation, auto-repair etc.

I would have been very happy if the BMS on our (plastic cased) battery was serviceable (albeit by an pro) without a tin opener and glue, because I'm sure it is the weak point. I had the option to buy Victron with external BMS and didn't because of the cost. The rest of our charging/discharge system does conform to the charge rates/profiles and low temp control. I will also install a rabbits foot when Victron start selling them.

Overall I think the risk is low, and the cost of replacements is no longer as bad as it was when folk were being ultra careful to protect their £3k a pop lithiums.

 

[white elephant]

Need a tad of advice.

I don't understand electrics. The terminology and acronyms mystifies me. As Donald Sutherland said in Kellys Heroes, "I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work."

We use a lot of EHU. However, we intend to do more overnighting, so no EHU. I want to make sure that when we do, we have enough leisure battery DC to power the essentials. Telly, charging, lights, tablets.

My question is simple. Can I take out the old 100amp battery and put in a 150/200amp lithium?

I've currently got:

1. Platinum Leisure Plus 100 amp battery, don't know whether it is AGM, gel or wet. It doesn't seem to hold charge anywhere near to where it used to. 6 years old.
View attachment 868333


2. 150w solar panel, twin relay

3. An electric solar panel thing with MeTer on it. No idea what it does.
View attachment 868334


4. An inverter
View attachment 868335


5. A dual battery solar controller that doesn't seem to be doing owt.
View attachment 868336


6. A distribution box with fuses in it
View attachment 868337




7. No idea what this is.
View attachment 868338


Is a lithium battery a straight swap, or do I need to do something else? Is it DIY or expert fit?

Many thanks,
Dave



Dave

Dave, Not an expertonly in years. You seem to have system designed around Lead acid battery. aA change to LiFe is supper major & costly , I doubt if you could Diy it for under £1000. Check out the inverter, sure you can get better size match improved efficency. Speak to Tanya batteries re new Battery . tony

 

[kingy58]

DDJC I think your next question needs to be : 'Recommendations for an installer in the ..... area?' I'm in the exact same situation as you regarding understanding the ins and outs of electrics and just want to have someone I can trust install the whole thing for me. I can start the ball rolling - any recommendations in the Surrey/Sussex area?

 

[Mother Ship]

Can highly recommend AMC Motorhomes, Hailsham, East Sussex. Fitted whole set up with 2 lithiums & 2 solar panels. Very knowledgeable, very helpful, very neat installation. https://www.amcmotorcaravans.co.uk/

 

[G1969]

DDJC I think your next question needs to be : 'Recommendations for an installer in the ..... area?' I'm in the exact same situation as you regarding understanding the ins and outs of electrics and just want to have someone I can trust install the whole thing for me. I can start the ball rolling - any recommendations in the Surrey/Sussex area?

Nigel and Roger at offgrid power are going to do mine.

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[DDJC]

DDJC I think your next question needs to be : 'Recommendations for an installer in the ..... area?' I'm in the exact same situation as you regarding understanding the ins and outs of electrics and just want to have someone I can trust install the whole thing for me. I can start the ball rolling - any recommendations in the Surrey/Sussex area?

I've got one that comes with amazing reviews, and was personally suggested to me for a different job a couple of years ago. Apex. In Mereworth, West Kent. He does do some mobile work, but his workshop is also only twenty mins away from me.
Most telling is that he is booked up until June. I can wait until then as every trip until June is to places that have EHU.

 

[DDJC]

Dave, Not an expertonly in years. You seem to have system designed around Lead acid battery. aA change to LiFe is supper major & costly , I doubt if you could Diy it for under £1000. Check out the inverter, sure you can get better size match improved efficency. Speak to Tanya batteries re new Battery . tony

Cheers, quite happy to scrap the inverter. It was fitted by a dealer who seems to not have known it was unsuitable for our van's setup.

 

[headlight]

Cheers, quite happy to scrap the inverter. It was fitted by a dealer who seems to not have known it was unsuitable for our van's setup.

If you are having 200AH of lithium fitted then that will run your inverter fine.
Just be aware that some items don't like modified sine wave, although TBH I ran a modified sign wave inverter for several years and never had a problem.
If you keep the inverter I would check that the 12v cabling to it is up to the job and correctly fused.

 

[JonLisa]

Need a tad of advice.

I don't understand electrics. The terminology and acronyms mystifies me. As Donald Sutherland said in Kellys Heroes, "I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work."

We use a lot of EHU. However, we intend to do more overnighting, so no EHU. I want to make sure that when we do, we have enough leisure battery DC to power the essentials. Telly, charging, lights, tablets.

My question is simple. Can I take out the old 100amp battery and put in a 150/200amp lithium?

I've currently got:

1. Platinum Leisure Plus 100 amp battery, don't know whether it is AGM, gel or wet. It doesn't seem to hold charge anywhere near to where it used to. 6 years old.
View attachment 868333


2. 150w solar panel, twin relay

3. An electric solar panel thing with MeTer on it. No idea what it does.
View attachment 868334


4. An inverter
View attachment 868335


5. A dual battery solar controller that doesn't seem to be doing owt.
View attachment 868336


6. A distribution box with fuses in it
View attachment 868337




7. No idea what this is.
View attachment 868338


Is a lithium battery a straight swap, or do I need to do something else? Is it DIY or expert fit?

Many thanks,
Dave



Dave

Just a suggestion to consider. Have you thought about getting a portable battery generator, like a Jackary or Bluetti. You could use it to run the TV and phone/ laptop charging instead of drawing from leisure battery. It would increase your off grid longevity.

 

[RogerIvy]

I had the option to buy Victron with external BMS and didn't because of the cost. The rest of our charging/discharge system does conform to the charge rates/profiles and low temp control. I will also install a rabbits foot when Victron start selling them.

Interesting that Victron lowered all prices towards the end of last year, but at this moment in time their LiFePO4 batteries are still incredibly expensive.

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[AdrianChen]

Interesting that Victron lowered all prices towards the end of last year, but at this moment in time their LiFePO4 batteries are still incredibly expensive.

Read somewhere 30% drop in the US recently.

 

[Sandancers]

I've got one that comes with amazing reviews, and was personally suggested to me for a different job a couple of years ago. Apex. In Mereworth, West Kent. He does do some mobile work, but his workshop is also only twenty mins away from me.
Most telling is that he is booked up until June. I can wait until then as every trip until June is to places that have EHU.

Would you not be better off making a list of stuff that you need / want to run off 12v (ignore the inverter if you don't use it). Then ask on here if people running a similar load can survive one, two, three days off hook up.

Based on the above then ask your auto electrician to test your existing kit, including the battery, to see the state of each.

You might find that just a new, good type, lead acid is all you require, £150 last another six years.