Comfortmatic gearbox issue - fact or fallacy?

[G7UXG]

The latest: I'm told it's the hydraulic block controller.
Thats a translation of what was fed back from the French garage, via Europ Assistance to RAC Commercial in Walsall. I'm assuming that means it's the system's brain.
Still waiting to find out how long it will take to get the part and fit it.

To be continued:

Well, it's now 3 weeks since my Comfort-Matic developed a problem and, so far, the garage have failed to identify the fault (the fix above didn't work).

They have tried other things but translation makes it difficult to understand exactly what they have done.

Here's their workflow:

• Plug the diagnostic machine in and the computer says, 'Replace XX'.
• Trouble is they don't have the parts in stock so a couple more days pass before it arrives.
• Mechanic (I hesitate to call them mechanics.. perhaps fitters would be better!) fits part.
• It doesn't work.
• Plug in diagnostic machine and the computer says, 'Replace YY'.
• Trouble is... you get the idea

Every little diagnostic process takes best part of a week and hence we're now up to 3 weeks!

After throwing my teddy out of the window and complaining like hell to Fiat that it seems to be beyond the will of their men to diagnose and fix a machine that they built within a reasonable time scale, the latest is that a technician from Fiat Technical (France) is booked to attend the garage on Monday and try and establish what's wrong.

I'm hopeful that he can diagnose the problem; if he (she?) can't then I've no idea who can. I have suggested that, given that it's already taken them 3 weeks, if they don't know what the problem is then replace everything that it could be at once rather than replace one part per week...they didn't like that idea. I wonder why?

My experience of Fiat Camper Assist may feature in another thread soon but, in a nutshell, the UK side of the operation, RAC Commercial, have been helpful and tried to get regular updates. They have been systematically ignored and cut off by the French side of the operation.

The French side? Europ Assistance and my opinion of them is that they are dis-interested and incompetent. And they advertise themselves as 'The World leaders in care services.'

I'm told by the RAC operators that this is a regular problem in France. In Germany they get much better service.

It's a pity I didn't break down in Germany.

Watch this space for an update next week.

Mike

 

[maz]

Oh my goodness, what a nightmare! Bad enough to deal with when the van is in front of you, but when it's stuck in another country ......

I do hope that you get the problem sorted out soon. And please keep us posted.

 

[denisejoe]

There is a case where Burstner took back an almost new panoramic tag axel because fiat couldn't fix the comformatic box it was Camper uk who supplied the van and helped her get the new van and supplied a new smaller van whilst hers was being built.

Joe

 

[JockandRita]

There is a case where Burstner took back an almost new panoramic tag axel because fiat couldn't fix the comformatic box it was Camper uk who supplied the van and helped her get the new van and supplied a new smaller van whilst hers was being built.

Joe

@Skeggysue will be able to throw more light on that one Joe.
IIRC, the engine would just suddenly die on them, and very scary when in the outside lane of a motorway.
I don't know what the final diagnosis or remedy was, with Sue & Gilbert's MH, apart from replacement.

@G7UXG, I really do hope that your sistuation is resolved asap, and that the MH is returned to you in full working oreder again.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Xabia]

I think that when the Burstner went back to the factory they discovered that a wire had been trapped when constructing the body and this was causing the problem, nothing to do with the gearbox itself.

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[hilldweller]

His response when I asked him to show me the "warping" was to say it was only a few millimetres and I wouldn't see anything. Crooks the lot of them!

Last MH MOT the tester said we have a problem, pulsing on one front brake.

No I said, YOU have a problem, you replaced them a few months ago. "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" he said and they miraculously cured them quickly.

Let's be generous ( because of FUN members ), Crooks Most of them.

 

[G7UXG]

The latest:
Nothing has worked so far, although I don't really know what has been done because of the translation problem.

Fiat Technical are now involved. A Fiat technician visited the garage on Monday and the decision has been made to remove the gearbox for further diagnosis and a partial strip down. I don't know to what extent; perhaps the robotic part is impossible to access and remove with the gearbox in situ. Any technicians out there?

At least something is being done and now that Fiat themselves are involved rather than just a franchised dealer, I see that as a good thing. Fiat technician will visit the garage later in the week.

Here's hoping for a diagnosis and, more importantly, a fix.

Mike

 

[Charlie123]

YEAH, SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE HE'S TRYING IT ON. TRYING TO DEVALUE YOUR MOTORHOME IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES,KNOWING FULL WELL HE'S PROBABLY GOT A WAITING LIST OF CLIENTS WANTING AN AUTOMATIC MOTORHOME OF VIRTUALLY ANY MODEL, I'D SAY YOUR HOLDING THE ACE CARD THERE WITH AN AUTOMATIC,THERE IS QUITE Q DEMAND FOR AUTOMATICS BY PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES,ARTHRITIS ETC,.

Oh don't get me wrong I love automatics. Our two cars are autos but they are conventional autos not the robotised junk Fiat use.

 

[Charlie123]

The latest:
Nothing has worked so far, although I don't really know what has been done because of the translation problem.

Fiat Technical are now involved. A Fiat technician visited the garage on Monday and the decision has been made to remove the gearbox for further diagnosis and a partial strip down. I don't know to what extent; perhaps the robotic part is impossible to access and remove with the gearbox in situ. Any technicians out there?

At least something is being done and now that Fiat themselves are involved rather than just a franchised dealer, I see that as a good thing. Fiat technician will visit the garage later in the week.

Here's hoping for a diagnosis and, more importantly, a fix.

Mike

Most of the gibbons is inside the housings or in the box itself. As a member mentions above the slave cylinder is inside the bell housing which is a really stupid place to put it. Peugeot does this on some of its manual transmission cars causing huge bills when thier cheap and nasty slave cylinders fail.

If I were you I would reject that vehicle as not fit for purpose and do it ASAP

 

[G7UXG]

If I were you I would reject that vehicle as not fit for purpose and do it ASAP

Thanks Charlie, I think I'll give them a reasonable and fair chance to put it right first.

Mike

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[maz]

The latest:
Nothing has worked so far, although I don't really know what has been done because of the translation problem.

Fiat Technical are now involved. A Fiat technician visited the garage on Monday and the decision has been made to remove the gearbox for further diagnosis and a partial strip down. I don't know to what extent; perhaps the robotic part is impossible to access and remove with the gearbox in situ. Any technicians out there?

At least something is being done and now that Fiat themselves are involved rather than just a franchised dealer, I see that as a good thing. Fiat technician will visit the garage later in the week.

Here's hoping for a diagnosis and, more importantly, a fix.

Mike

Thanks for the update, Mike. Let's hope that Fiat can fix it quickly for you.

 

[buttons]

Some would possibly not know that they were not changing up into 6th so unaware that the gears were sticking...

 

[G7UXG]

The Final Update

After almost 6 weeks it seems the fault has been identified and repaired and this is my understanding of what went wrong. I'm no mechanic or engineer and so if someone out there can explain it all in a better way, then feel free.

After various components, including the Comfortmatic's ECU had been replaced, low hydraulic pressure was identified as being the problem. Bolted to what is essentially a manual gearbox there is a precision engineered 'block' and I understand that it contains a number of oil ways and a series of electronically operated solenoids which, I assume, are instructed to open and close by the ECU and allow high pressure hydraulic fluid to flow through certain valves and oil ways to operate the clutch and gear change; no doubt timing is crucial to correct operation.

This block seems to be connected to various components by (mostly) flexible pipework and some pipes and the clutch actuator mechanism were replaced. This didn't work.

Next, the gearbox was removed to allow inspection of components within the bell housing, such as (I understand) the clutch's slave cylinder. That was replaced, along with the thrust bearing. That didn't work either.

Eventually, Fiat Technical made the decision to replace the entire hydraulic block and, it seems, all of the associated pipework. Bingo. That worked.

I'm told that there would appear to be a hydraulic leak or fault within the block. I don't know if that meant that a solenoid was malfunctioning or what, but there certainly wasn't an oil leak anywhere on the system, so it must have been an internal problem.

I collected the vehicle on Friday afternoon and drove it 500 miles back home to Chester and it performed perfectly, so let's hope the problem is fixed once and for all.

I managed to converse with the workshop in France and it seems that this is a very rare problem. Apparently, they've only had 1 other similar case at that particular dealership within the last 10 years that Comfortmatic gearboxes have been available.

This would appear to have been a quite rare manufacturing fault, perhaps even due to a stray piece of swarf, and probably quite difficult to diagnose. I guess I've been unlucky but I'd probably still order Comfortmatic again based upon the fact that if the problem is that unusual it probably won't happen to me again.

Let's hope they've got it right and the problem is well and truly behind me. Time will tell.

Mike

 

[PeteH]

Can anyone confirm? Is the comfortmatic, the same Fiat 6 speed manual box, but with electronic gear changing. OR is it a completely NEW different box?. Having had some bad experience with the 6 speed box (Manual) I am fighting shy of the Fiat Auto. But the market is very restricted in that case.

 

[CazPaul]

The Final Update

After almost 6 weeks it seems the fault has been identified and repaired and this is my understanding of what went wrong. I'm no mechanic or engineer and so if someone out there can explain it all in a better way, then feel free.

After various components, including the Comfortmatic's ECU had been replaced, low hydraulic pressure was identified as being the problem. Bolted to what is essentially a manual gearbox there is a precision engineered 'block' and I understand that it contains a number of oil ways and a series of electronically operated solenoids which, I assume, are instructed to open and close by the ECU and allow high pressure hydraulic fluid to flow through certain valves and oil ways to operate the clutch and gear change; no doubt timing is crucial to correct operation.

This block seems to be connected to various components by (mostly) flexible pipework and some pipes and the clutch actuator mechanism were replaced. This didn't work.

Next, the gearbox was removed to allow inspection of components within the bell housing, such as (I understand) the clutch's slave cylinder. That was replaced, along with the thrust bearing. That didn't work either.

Eventually, Fiat Technical made the decision to replace the entire hydraulic block and, it seems, all of the associated pipework. Bingo. That worked.

I'm told that there would appear to be a hydraulic leak or fault within the block. I don't know if that meant that a solenoid was malfunctioning or what, but there certainly wasn't an oil leak anywhere on the system, so it must have been an internal problem.

I collected the vehicle on Friday afternoon and drove it 500 miles back home to Chester and it performed perfectly, so let's hope the problem is fixed once and for all.

I managed to converse with the workshop in France and it seems that this is a very rare problem. Apparently, they've only had 1 other similar case at that particular dealership within the last 10 years that Comfortmatic gearboxes have been available.

This would appear to have been a quite rare manufacturing fault, perhaps even due to a stray piece of swarf, and probably quite difficult to diagnose. I guess I've been unlucky but I'd probably still order Comfortmatic again based upon the fact that if the problem is that unusual it probably won't happen to me again.

Let's hope they've got it right and the problem is well and truly behind me. Time will tell.

Mike

Thanks, great info.
Did you have to pay or was it covered?

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[G7UXG]

Thanks, great info.
Did you have to pay or was it covered?

Didn't cost me a penny. The motorhome is only 4 months old, so all done under warranty.

Mike

 

[mikebeaches]

Can anyone confirm? Is the comfortmatic, the same Fiat 6 speed manual box, but with electronic gear changing. OR is it a completely NEW different box?. Having had some bad experience with the 6 speed box (Manual) I am fighting shy of the Fiat Auto. But the market is very restricted in that case.

I believe it is exactly the same box on the comfortmatic as the standard manual one.

 

[maz]

The Final Update

After almost 6 weeks it seems the fault has been identified and repaired and this is my understanding of what went wrong. I'm no mechanic or engineer and so if someone out there can explain it all in a better way, then feel free.

After various components, including the Comfortmatic's ECU had been replaced, low hydraulic pressure was identified as being the problem. Bolted to what is essentially a manual gearbox there is a precision engineered 'block' and I understand that it contains a number of oil ways and a series of electronically operated solenoids which, I assume, are instructed to open and close by the ECU and allow high pressure hydraulic fluid to flow through certain valves and oil ways to operate the clutch and gear change; no doubt timing is crucial to correct operation.

This block seems to be connected to various components by (mostly) flexible pipework and some pipes and the clutch actuator mechanism were replaced. This didn't work.

Next, the gearbox was removed to allow inspection of components within the bell housing, such as (I understand) the clutch's slave cylinder. That was replaced, along with the thrust bearing. That didn't work either.

Eventually, Fiat Technical made the decision to replace the entire hydraulic block and, it seems, all of the associated pipework. Bingo. That worked.

I'm told that there would appear to be a hydraulic leak or fault within the block. I don't know if that meant that a solenoid was malfunctioning or what, but there certainly wasn't an oil leak anywhere on the system, so it must have been an internal problem.

I collected the vehicle on Friday afternoon and drove it 500 miles back home to Chester and it performed perfectly, so let's hope the problem is fixed once and for all.

I managed to converse with the workshop in France and it seems that this is a very rare problem. Apparently, they've only had 1 other similar case at that particular dealership within the last 10 years that Comfortmatic gearboxes have been available.

This would appear to have been a quite rare manufacturing fault, perhaps even due to a stray piece of swarf, and probably quite difficult to diagnose. I guess I've been unlucky but I'd probably still order Comfortmatic again based upon the fact that if the problem is that unusual it probably won't happen to me again.

Let's hope they've got it right and the problem is well and truly behind me. Time will tell.

Mike

So glad that you've got your van back at last and can now enjoy using it again.

Also glad to hear that it was a very rare fault. I've been very happy with the Comfortmatic gear box in my van for over 5 years now.

Thank you very much for all the info you've provided in this thread.

 

[Julie S]

It is not so much that there is a gap between 1st and 2nd there is a clutch position sensor on all 180 3.0 otherwise the engine would stall this is very noticeable on manual vans and it makes a bit of a flat spot on comfort matics but you can easily compensate for it.

I have just taken delivery of a new Burstner with the comfortmatic gearbox, and did find it strange to drive as I haven't driven an automatic anything for 40yrs. Prior to reading this thread I have been trying to find advice on how to drive my automatic MH, and cannot seem to find any info. Now having read this thread I feel it's even more important to know how to get the best ride from the comfortmatic gearbox. You say 'you can easily compensate for the flat spot' Can you tell me how?

I would really appreciate some practical 'how to' advice. I'm now feeling apprehensive about my new MH and that's not a comfortable place to be ;-(

 

[Steve and Denise]

@Julie S once the auto clutch bites try to keep the throttle in the same position which feels a bit wrong to do so,as you feel you want to press much harder a slight change in pedal pressure is enough to get you moving smoothly.
The other thing I do is always use the up button facility.
Hope this helps.

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[Cavs]

I would really appreciate some practical 'how to' advice.

It might help you to visualise what the automatic clutch and gear change are doing and operate the throttle as you would if you were changing gear. This can help to make the drive a bit smoother, but it's not necessary as the machinery will do that for you. I've never noticed a flat spot, so I suggest there's no need to do anything special (except enjoy your new van ).

 

[Julie S]

Thank you Stephen and Steve&Denise for your helpful advice. All I've got to do now is find the 'up' button...oh, and enjoy the ride.

While, I have your attention; what do I do if I just want to run the engine to top the battery up? I have a feeling I read somewhere here that you shouldn't leave the engine running in neutral!! Also, on steep hills, would I use the gearbox in automatic just using brake and accelerator, or would it be better to use the manual gear?

Thank you

 

[Cavs]

Hi Julie,
The 'up' button is awkwardly placed between the gear stick and the dash board.
If you're going to leave the engine running for any length of time you should put it in neutral, otherwise you'll just be putting unnecessary wear on the clutch release mechanism. If you leave it ticking over for more than a short period the machine will put it in neutral and then sound an alarm because the gear stick and the gearbox are in different positions.
For a hill start it makes no difference whatsoever whether the system is in manual or automatic.

Having said all that, running the engine on tickover is not the best way to change the batteries: it's not very effective and it would take a long time.

 

[John & Joan]

Hmmmmm , now first off , let me just state , this is not motorhome's , okay , this is heavy truck's .

However they also use this type of gearbox , and yes not only have i heard of it , but had it happen regularly , mainly with merk's and daf's . The computer doesn't seem to be keeping track of what's happening and take's an age to select a gear . Normally at roundabout's , where your on a stop start , braking to fit a gap , then accelerating in to that gap . Merk's seem to be particularly bad often deselecting all gear's completely , and shifting to neutral . You have to confirm a pull away gear has been selected else risk going to neutral in the middle of a roundabout , any delay in changing gear on approach , you abort . Though it does happen at junction's and traffic light's , it's not so much of a problem , as traffic is generally slower moving . Approach speed does not seem to overcome this , manual over ride really confuses it , and lead's to automatic deselection . The only way to eliminate it completely is to drive and select the gears on approach in manual mode , sorta why do i have an automatic in the first place .
Again i state this is heavy truck's , but many make's are affected , from 7.5 to 44 tonner's , and these have often covered a higher mileage .

Our Smart MCC X Reg has the same problem. You have to come to a dead stop to be able to pull away with any sense of safety. If you just approach slowly you feel that the power has switched off just as you need it.

 

[Julie S]

Hi Julie,
The 'up' button is awkwardly placed between the gear stick and the dash board.
If you're going to leave the engine running for any length of time you should put it in neutral, otherwise you'll just be putting unnecessary wear on the clutch release mechanism. If you leave it ticking over for more than a short period the machine will put it in neutral and then sound an alarm because the gear stick and the gearbox are in different positions.
For a hill start it makes no difference whatsoever whether the system is in manual or automatic.

Having said all that, running the engine on tickover is not the best way to change the batteries: it's not very effective and it would take a long time.

Many thanks Stephen for your advice. I'm not an uncertain or scared driver, so I guess I've just got to get in the thing and enjoy. Am off to Clumber Park for my first outing in it, so fingers crossed I can work out how it all operates, as it is very different to my previous Auto Trail Tracker EKS.

Wishing you happy travels ;-)

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[airwave]

Our Smart MCC X Reg has the same problem. You have to come to a dead stop to be able to pull away with any sense of safety. If you just approach slowly you feel that the power has switched off just as you need it.

Now that is a real shame , i quite like the smart . Of course you know the smart is a mercedes in disguise , that's why i don't have one . I was warned off a merk vito when i was looking for a replacement for my supercarry , by a mechanic friend . In his word's , merk's are unnecessarily overcomplicated , and he owned one . I know through my job , they are expensive to run , part's are over the top , and their thirsty . However the upside is , their reliable and rarely break in the first place .

 

[DBK]

Many thanks Stephen for your advice. I'm not an uncertain or scared driver, so I guess I've just got to get in the thing and enjoy. Am off to Clumber Park for my first outing in it, so fingers crossed I can work out how it all operates, as it is very different to my previous Auto Trail Tracker EKS.

Wishing you happy travels ;-)

I suggest you initially just put it in auto and drive it. Don't over-complicate things to begin with. Let it decide what gear to select. It's what it was built to do. The only time you need to touch the gear lever is to select neutral when say stuck at lights, as suggested, or to select reverse.

When you are more familiar with it you could try being a bit proactive. On steep hills with lots of bends, both going up and down, I invariably select manual mode. This allows you to select a lower gear as you approach a hairpin bend. Left to its own, the gearbox, which cannot see the road ahead will very likely enter the bend in too high a gear (if going up the hill) and you really don't want it changing down under heavy load on a steep hill - worst case the vehicle can virtually stop before it has changed down. Second to first under load is to be avoided if at all possible - anticipate the change before you enter the bend.
The "Up" button seems to work best on heavier vehicles but all it does is hold lower gears than it would otherwise. It cannot anticipate the need to change gear. I tried it a few days ago on a very steep and wiggly hill in Sicily, both going up and going down but wasn't convinced so I went back to manual changes. Ours is 3.5t - so a lightweight.

 

[Ex-caravantugger]

Some would possibly not know that they were not changing up into 6th so unaware that the gears were sticking...

It tells you, it tells you, it tells you on the dashboard
Great impersonation huh ?

 

[tonyidle]

Now that is a real shame , i quite like the smart . Of course you know the smart is a mercedes in disguise , that's why i don't have one . I was warned off a merk vito when i was looking for a replacement for my supercarry , by a mechanic friend . In his word's , merk's are unnecessarily overcomplicated , and he owned one . I know through my job , they are expensive to run , part's are over the top , and their thirsty . However the upside is , their reliable and rarely break in the first place .

No auto can anticipate so the only way they can minimise that disadvantage is to change down quickly and smoothly. A robotic is at an immediate disadvantage in that it can only smooth changes by modulating the clutch, an inherently 'slow' process. It can also only know that you need a lower gear when you apply throttle to pull away. Hence the delay, just when you don't need it and when it is most noticeable, in the down-change to first gear. The only answer is to do the anticipating yourself and change into bottom gear at a moment more appropriate than the electronics will do so. Our (my wifes) Smart has taught me all the requisite skills .

 

[buttons]

It tells you, it tells you, it tells you on the dashboard
Great impersonation huh ?

That told me....

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