Coiled cables

[meanders]

I'm confident that there was a discussion about this several years ago where the concept of induction effects were debunked because the current in the live wire EXACTLY CANCELS the current in the neutral wire which is flowing in the opposite direction.

Adding an iron core would have an effect if induction was present BUT who would reduce their payload AND give themselves extra work in lifting the cable by doing such a thing?

Gordon

Not absolutely true but the basic concept that induction is reduced is correct but harmonics ensure it still exists.

I was joking though. As you say, why would anyone want to carry such a lump of iron.

 

[Dolmen]

So it seems rule of thumb is 1.5mm cable wound on the reel is fine if you are European mainland and 2.5mm fully unwound if you are from the UK.

 

[Jerrywh]

I don't use a reel .. just coil it by hand. When plugging in, toss it loosely on the ground and pull out enough each end to put the plugs in. If the coils are spread over a foot or two of area that is sufficient to defeat any heating effect imo. Also makes it much quicker to coil up again on leaving ..

 

[meanders]

Well on average we have more volts here at around 240 rather than the standardised European 230V and the actual 220 in many countries. (That's both a joke and true but almost irrelevant)

At the end of the day, it's your risk and no-one else's. Also as I said earlier do not assume cable girth reflects the conductor size.

Personally I am not prepared to put my hand in the fire just because someone else does.

 

[Gizmouk]

I'm confident that there was a discussion about this several years ago where the concept of induction effects were debunked because the current in the live wire EXACTLY CANCELS the current in the neutral wire which is flowing in the opposite direction.

Adding an iron core would have an effect if induction was present BUT who would reduce their payload AND give themselves extra work in lifting the cable by doing such a thing?

Gordon

1. That's because it's little to do with induction effect. Surface area cooling / derating is more applicable - with thermal runaway being the "win" for spectator viewing.
2. And, you might want to read up on air core induction.
3. The effects of points 1 and 2 is what MHers and Tuggers don't understand, but (too many) think doesn't apply to them. However, as an Electrical Engineer, I do understand, and used to point out to those who left cables coiled the issues. Got told to "mind me own business" (or F/P off), and now I just walk past and smirk. I'm not the one risking an electrical fire.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JJ]

I will continue to use my EHU lead just as I always have, unwinding enough to reach the sockets and I will bet anyone on here any amount that, even if it is a bit "coiled" up here and there, it will not (repeat NOT) melt...

I will not be using a stick welder and have no use for a hair dryer anymore.

JJ

 

[meanders]

As they say, you can lead a horse to water but .......... TBO if I see something that really concerns the electronics and electrical engineer in my, then I will try to gently explain, but like you, have been told to MMOB or BO. Their risk except on one occasion on a crowded aire when it was putting our van at risk as well. Fortunately the wife of the Dutch couple spoke perfect English, so I explained the issue to her and she translated. Wining seconds, he was unwinding the cable off the reel.

 

[PhilipLh]

Good Evening
Once packed away I’m constantly looking out for whoever it is that puts it all into knots before I go to use it again!

Phil in Northampton

Coil each loop alternately in the opposite direction and it won’t tangle. Look on you tube “how to coil cables”. Works on hosepipes too. Game changer!

 

[Widge]

1. That's because it's little to do with induction effect. Surface area cooling / derating is more applicable - with thermal runaway being the "win" for spectator viewing.
2. And, you might want to read up on air core induction.
3. The effects of points 1 and 2 is what MHers and Tuggers don't understand, but (too many) think doesn't apply to them. However, as an Electrical Engineer, I do understand, and used to point out to those who left cables coiled the issues. Got told to "mind me own business" (or F/P off), and now I just walk past and smirk. I'm not the one risking an electrical fire.

Sadly there is the attitude that, i have never had a problem and i see them coiled up on lots of vans, but it is a bit like having insurance, 90% of the time you dont need to worry, but when you have a problem, (equipment failure or sudden short) it can be devastating!

The trick is having a reliable crystal ball.

 

[Apacheman]

Each to their own as they say. Generally only use mine on sites and if on a site I’d be staying for a couple of nights or more. That extra few seconds it takes to unwind/ rewind makes no odds to me but obviously does to others. It’s only if/ when you have a problem you wished you done something differently. Hind sight then is a wonderful thing. Just as a last thought I’m wondering how an insurance company would deal with a fire claim say on a CAMC site where it clearly states to fully unwind a cable and a decision was made by an individual to purposely not do that?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Rapido925M]

I was joking though. As you say, why would anyone want to carry such a lump of iron.

After writing that I suddenly wondered if anyone was such a tightwad that they would use on of those drums, freely available from some sources, which have an iron cylinder at the centre and a cardboard/wood top and bottom?

Motto: don't joke about serious things?

Gordon

 

[meanders]

Motto: don't joke about serious things?

Gordon

I consider myself duly reprimanded.

 

[stevewagner]

10A supply and above I tend to unwind it a bit, 6A it stays on the reel, except the bit I need!

The same could happen regardless of the current. It is the excessive current draw that causes the over heating. It’s called to coil effect.

 

[jess12]

I see that most of our continental cousins don’t unwrap their ehu cables - do you have to or not as it’s a pain rewinding them

Just a thought what if the wound up cable overheats and catches fire damaging the van its connected to could the insurance claim you are negligent and there by reducing there payout or refusing to pay out at all again just a thought we are all aware how tricky insurance companys can be

 

[Carpmart]

The same could happen regardless of the current. It is the excessive current draw that causes the over heating. It’s called to coil effect.

2.5mm2 cable and 6A max draw will, IMHO, be fine!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Brains]

Just a thought what if the wound up cable overheats and catches fire damaging the van its connected to could the insurance claim you are negligent and there by reducing there payout or refusing to pay out at all again just a thought we are all aware how tricky insurance companys can be

In the UK, probably, as this should be in the "stuff you should know".
Hence in the UK, 1.5mm domestic cables on reels with conventional internal plugs and sockets are fairly rare on UK campsites.
I would have thought if seen by the warden, they would be knocking on the door asking for them to be unwound.

However in many European mainland campsites, it appears the majority use a conventional domestic 1.5mm cable on a reel.
Electrical fires must be fairly common.

But I doubt on the pages for Motorhome Fun German edition Wohnmobil-Spaß.DE and the French edition, Plaisir en camping-car.FR such topics are discussed, so the insurance would cover it as it would be an unknown side effect

 

[eurajohn]

We've stopped on a couple of Norwegian sites that specify if you want to hook up you must use a certified 4 mm lead black in colour.
Have to say many people ignored the instruction.

 

[Purrfecttune]

Like many on here we have 2 leads on board, both are a higher spec than the original orange 25m one that came with the ‘van (and now lives in the shed).

One is 15m and the other 10m. Generally the 15m is used the most.
If required, we can join them if we need more than 15m but so far, haven’t needed to.

 

[KNWH]

Coil each loop alternately in the opposite direction and it won’t tangle. Look on you tube “how to coil cables”. Works on hosepipes too. Game changer!

A similar technique is used when rock climbing and you want to throw a rope down to abseil down, or for someone to tie onto to climb up. You don’t want it tangling and jamming halfway up the rock face.

 

[stevewagner]

2.5mm2 cable and 6A max draw will, IMHO, be fine!

You’ve missed the point but never mind

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dolmen]

The

In the UK, probably, as this should be in the "stuff you should know".
Hence in the UK, 1.5mm domestic cables on reels with conventional internal plugs and sockets are fairly rare on UK campsites.
I would have thought if seen by the warden, they would be knocking on the door asking for them to be unwound.

However in many European mainland campsites, it appears the majority use a conventional domestic 1.5mm cable on a reel.
Electrical fires must be fairly common.

But I doubt on the pages for Motorhome Fun German edition Wohnmobil-Spaß.DE and the French edition, Plaisir en camping-car.FR such topics are discussed, so the insurance would cover it as it would be an unknown side effect

interesting, I travel regularly to the continent and have never seen nor heard of any electrical fires, have other members? Just looked on google and can’t find any direct reference to UK fires either. Indirect yes, overloaded equipment, workshops running multiple heavy draw power tools, regardless, if on hook up I do unwind out of respect for those that worry about these sort of things,

 

[tonyidle]

The same could happen regardless of the current. It is the excessive current draw that causes the over heating. It’s called to coil effect.

Not really. The heating effect is entirely dependant on the current drawn. I don't uncoil because I don't coil. Coiling on reel is a pointless exercise IMHO.

 

[bigtwin]

interesting, I travel regularly to the continent and have never seen nor heard of any electrical fires, have other members?

The reason that continentals don’t unwind is because they don’t use power hungry devices in their MH. Consequently they are not drawing sufficient current to generate excess heat and hence they don’t generate fires.

UK users are entirely different in that respect.

Ian

 

[Barriesimpson]

Like Gromet I carry 3 different lengths of cable and use accordingly.

I’m the sad get that when hooking the cable over arm after use, have a clean cloth in hand to wipe the said cable before storing it in a bag.

Thinking about it, I also try to have the cable in a straight row, like my shorts and tee shirts and undies ironed, changed each day but do quite often stay off grid. I also like to shave & shower before turning out.

Don’t think I’m quite ready to join the un-washed club just yet.

I'm with you on that Fdhadi albeit I carry only one cable which is 25m long. I unravel the whole lot and spread it around when it is too long (most times). I wind it up over arm and use a cloth to wipe it while winding it, why wouldn't you? It then goes into the bag that came with it when it was gifted to me by the dealer that sold me the moho. However, I don't worry too much about ironing undies, but I do shower every single day and shave every 2 days as I am not too beardy. I will not join the unclean club any time soon

 

[Carpmart]

You’ve missed the point but never mind

TBH, I rarely plug in, so it is a moot point for us anyway…

Our whole Motorhome is run off 13v the whole time.

If we do plug in, our biggest 230v (more often 220v) draw is an 800w water heater, a 900w kettle and a 900w air fryer… as we are so used to using an inverter, even if we are plugged in, we only ever run them individually as it’s how we operate. Also we were used to low amperage supplies, so we draw very little power.

When not plugged in, all these run fine off our 1200w inverter.

I’m assuming coil effect is the resistance created from current running through a coil, rather like a resistor, hence heat is created, is this correct? I’m also assuming there is less resistance with less current draw and thicker wires, is this also correct? Assuming it is correct, you can see why I adopt the approach I do?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Rapido925M]

Resistance is basically a function of the physical characteristics of the wire. Long wire is high resistance. Thick wire is low resistance. (There is a temperature effect but usually it’s insignificant: hot wire gets higher resistance).
When current flows through a resistance there is a change of energy, from electrical to heat. Big currents and high resistance results in more heat being generated.
Long thin cables with poor connections will get hotter than short thick ones with good connections.
Wires wrapped around a drum offer little opportunity for the heat to dissipate so are more likely to overheat than wires that are spread out.

Stay safe - Gordon

 

[JJ]

I just crossed a road... but didn't get run over... Boy was I lucky!

I hope by crossing that road I didn't affect my life insurance...


JJ

 

[peterc10]

However in many European mainland campsites, it appears the majority use a conventional domestic 1.5mm cable on a reel.
Electrical fires must be fairly common.

Never seen an electrical fire on all our travels in Europe. But seen a lot of cable drums around the sites.

The fact is that European motorhomes generally do not fit electrical elements in their heaters and boilers and they only use gas for the heating and cooking. That, and the warmer weather means they do not generate high electrical loads. On my Hymer the electrical elements were routinely added to RHD vehicles as an extra, because that is what the UK motorhomers demands.

 

[stevewagner]

Not really. The heating effect is entirely dependant on the current drawn. I don't uncoil because I don't coil. Coiling on reel is a pointless exercise IMHO.

Isn't that what I said then?

 

[meanders]

I have never seen a black swan, but I know they exist.

I have though seen a caravan go up on a site, and it's frightening. Somewhere is South Wales possibly 15 years or so ago. The cause wasn't obvious but they had previously been running a patio heater in the awning so were certainly drawing a lot of power. The awning seemed to go first and the occupants had to climb out of a window on the other side of the van to escape, including a child of I guess age 7. People used extinguishers and a hose from the nearest tap, but by the time the fire brigade arrived all of it was a smouldering wreck.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}