Cite Europe - man under van

[Brockley]

Yes & they go straight back through the border gates. I've no idea why they bother.

Not what I’ve read, they’ve been sending them to mainland Spain for processing from both Ceuta and Melilla. Spain recently won a case (on appeal) this February after sending two illegals straight back which is promising, but Gonzalo Boyd (Spanish lawyer) is fighting this decision because he says they were “deprived of a review of the expulsion“. They broke into Melilla in 2014 and were actually sent “straight back through the border gates”.

It’s good to see common sense prevail, during the summing up of the appeal, the European Court of Human Rights said “they had thus chosen not to use the legal procedures which exist in order to enter Spanish territory legally” it also said “they placed themselves in an unlawful situation when they had deliberately attempted to enter Spain as part of a large group and at an unauthorised location, taking advantage of the group‘s large number and using force”.

Lets see what happens next. I know that the number entering Spain via African Spanish enclaves or sea routes was 32,500 in 2019. It was twice that number in 2018! Might be something to do with the appeal, but Spain payed Morocco €32 million to “help them control illegal migration”.

Migrants (mostly young men) group up until there are enough of them to storm the enclaves. Some of that pay off is reportedly spent on Moroccan ’night visits’ which intercept forming groups with clubs to interfere with their best climbing assets - arms and legs.

They bothered because each mass raid resulted in some getting through.

 

[Brockley]

What do you think?

I think that they are likely to have lived the sort of chaotic lives that already cost the UK far to much in mental health care.

 

[Zepp]

As I said above we did our shopping at Cite Europe yesterday . I stayed with the van when Lynne did the shopping I saw about ten different small groups of migrants walking through the car parks I saw two trying to get into a hgv that was parked where the coaches park

We stayed at the aire in Calais last night along with about 30 other vans one thing I did notice they had a security guard on all night

 

[jongood]

Its about time the countries that they are passing through faced up to their responsibilities and put them through the appropriate process. Maybe the other members of the Eu should be aiding the southern countries more.

 

[minesapint]

So, you are obviously of the mindset that they can just rock up at the nearest concil office and be given a house and money.

We do treat them very well, a report this week showed over 400 illegals in a Hilton Hotel, Paid for by us and the report went on to show at least one other hotel fully booked with illegals. They also get £40 a week spending money. So they have arrived and have been given a 3 star home and spending money. It is a sad and crazy situation.
But the benefits they get here are far more than they can earn at home.

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[Spriddler]

Moved to new thread.
<Broken link removed>

 

[gus-lopez]

Not what I’ve read, they’ve been sending them to mainland Spain for processing from both Ceuta and Melilla. Spain recently won a case (on appeal) this February after sending two illegals straight back which is promising, but Gonzalo Boyd (Spanish lawyer) is fighting this decision because he says they were “deprived of a review of the expulsion“. They broke into Melilla in 2014 and were actually sent “straight back through the border gates”.

It’s good to see common sense prevail, during the summing up of the appeal, the European Court of Human Rights said “they had thus chosen not to use the legal procedures which exist in order to enter Spanish territory legally” it also said “they placed themselves in an unlawful situation when they had deliberately attempted to enter Spain as part of a large group and at an unauthorised location, taking advantage of the group‘s large number and using force”.

Lets see what happens next. I know that the number entering Spain via African Spanish enclaves or sea routes was 32,500 in 2019. It was twice that number in 2018! Might be something to do with the appeal, but Spain payed Morocco €32 million to “help them control illegal migration”.

Migrants (mostly young men) group up until there are enough of them to storm the enclaves. Some of that pay off is reportedly spent on Moroccan ’night visits’ which intercept forming groups with clubs to interfere with their best climbing assets - arms and legs.

They bothered because each mass raid resulted in some getting through.

In Ceuta & Mellilla I've never understood why the fence isn't electrified ?

 

[Brockley]

In Ceuta & Mellilla I've never understood why the fence isn't electrified ?

There was a massive palaver a few years ago when a group of migrants decided to swim out to sea and get round the fences that way. The Spanish shot at them with rubber bullets, one was knocked out and drowned.

 

[Johnen]

We never shop in Calais now, we stop at Boulogne the night before crossin. If they won’t make Calais safe for us to stop in they won’t get our business.

 

[Brockley]

Not something you would see on the BBC!

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[cmcardle75]

Do you know , I have just had a serious thought, really.
Do you think it could possibly be our van, that deters them when we go there and they leave. As we just havnt seen any migrants at all, seriously.View attachment 412271

We're thinking of full battenburg for our riot van conversion, assuming it doesn't break any laws. You need graphics, after all!

 

[cmcardle75]

We're thinking of full battenburg for our riot van conversion, assuming it doesn't break any laws. You need graphics, after all!

Whilst my Avatar picture is of a van of identical original condition to ours, they did, unfortunately, remove the decals, siren, lights and riot shield before selling it. We still have the perspex side windows (including the rather natty whited out windows, which are amazingly effective one way, even in low external light.

 

[MisterB]

if they apply for political asylum, then surely they have to give their country of birth so their claim can be investigated, so those whose claims are unsuccessful should be able to be returned to their country of birth without any fuss, irrespective of whether they have passports/ID or not.

is the process robust enough to be able to take DNA/fingerprints during the process for those who have no passports/ID, as they have clearly entered the country illegally, and until their claim has been approved, they are potentially guilty of committing a criminal offence which should be investigated and put before a magistrate or judge if the investigation shows they have committed a criminal offence.

if their claim for political asylum is approved then their DNA/fingerprints can be destroyed.

 

[Steve101uk]

There is no such thing as an ‘illegal’ or ‘bogus’ asylum seeker.

Under international law, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in any country that has signed the 1951 Refugee Convention and to remain there until the authorities have assessed their claim.

It is recognised in the 1951 Refugee Convention that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country – there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

The 1951 Refugee Convention guarantees everybody the right to apply for asylum. It has saved millions of lives. No country has ever withdrawn from it.

Get the facts on asylum https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/.

 

[minesapint]

There is no such thing as an ‘illegal’ or ‘bogus’ asylum seeker.

Under international law, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in any country that has signed the 1951 Refugee Convention and to remain there until the authorities have assessed their claim.

It is recognised in the 1951 Refugee Convention that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country – there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

The 1951 Refugee Convention guarantees everybody the right to apply for asylum. It has saved millions of lives. No country has ever withdrawn from it.

Get the facts on asylum https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/.

If they are fleeing persecution why travel through many safe countries to get to the UK, Genuine refugees is one thing but benefits and NHS seem to be high on the agenda.

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[emjaiuk]

There are of course exceptions, but the fact that English is widely used as a second language may influence asylum seekers to prefer the UK to other European countries.

 

[MisterB]

It is recognised in the 1951 Refugee Convention that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country – there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

using irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country ........ well, once they have 'escaped' from the country they are fleeing from ....... why are they not then deemed to be breaking a law when illegally entering further countries ???

 

[gus-lopez]

there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

I

 

[MC 55 FUN]

There are legal ways to enter the U.K. - arriving in a boat on the Kent coast without a passport isn't one of them . . . .

 

[Steve101uk]

Obviously the facts are inconvenient. But the fact is the UK take less than 1% of the world's refugees. The only way to claim asylum is to be in the UK. My guess is the 'deal' with the French will involve some way to process asylum seekers while in France. Post brexit it will be even more difficult to send them to a European country and only if the French agree to help can we stop them coming over the channel. Our international commitments to refugees are clearly defined and set in international law.. Seems we have even less control of our borders post brexit.

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[Steve101uk]

There are legal ways to enter the U.K. - arriving in a boat on the Kent coast without a passport isn't one of them . . . .

It is recognised in the 1951 Refugee Convention that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country – there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

It is recognised in the 1951 Refugee Convention that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country – there is no legal way to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of seeking asylum.

You clearly did not read my post accurately or effectively

Did I mention asylum ? NO

I reiterate that there are legal ways to enter the U.K. & arriving in a boat on the Kent coast without a passport is not one of them.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Obviously the facts are inconvenient. But the fact is the UK take less than 1% of the world's refugees. The only way to claim asylum is to be in the UK. My guess is the 'deal' with the French will involve some way to process asylum seekers while in France. Post brexit it will be even more difficult to send them to a European country and only if the French agree to help can we stop them coming over the channel. Our international commitments to refugees are clearly defined and set in international law.. Seems we have even less control of our borders post brexit.

Given that there are about 195 countries in the world, any country that takes more than 0.5% of the total refugee number is doing their bit.

In addition to taking it's fair share of refugees, the U.K. taxpayer is one of the highest donors of foreign aid in the world, some of it targeted directly at refugee camps.

In any case, these people are not genuine asylum seekers, if they were genuine asylum seekers they would have sought asylum in France or the first safe country they illegally entered.

They chose not to.

I wonder why . . . .

 

[Wellington]

I should imagine because they learn English, to some extent, from it’s extensive influence in the world over the distant past and American (which many people feel is an acceptable substitute) in more recent ones. I expect people feel that having a handle on a country’s language might give them a bit of an edge when it comes to getting a job.

Is it actually illegal to sail over the channel? Cos you don’t get asked for a passport on the beach, and boats come and go all the time. At what point does one become ‘illegal’?

I expect the French will take a dim view of being asked to help secure our borders, after the GBP stated so emphatically that we wanted to do it ourselves! I would be inclined to give us the Agincourt signal in their position!

 

[Clipgate]

Have you ever watched Casablanca the movie, consider the back story!
Casablanca was the last French territory before you could escape Axis powers, one piece of paper, in this case one for exit would mean the difference between life and death or best case imprisonment and torture.
What were the nationalities fleeing through this route? Take a look it's not highly documented, you may be surprised at who today might be referred as ILLEGAL migrants. Or my preference undocumented.
Then ask yourself how this situation came to be, what has caused vast numbers to flee, not only came to be in the past tense but currently the causes, who is providing the weapons and for what purpose. Not too many white Knights in that story. I carry as burden as most as the situation is being manufactured for my interest in a black substance taken from the ground. Passports were a modern construct, likely to be old technology, with Iris scans linked to camera technology, linked to card payments and cash being highly discouraged, the passport will become an antique of a bygone day.
Habits, association and lifestyle tracked and traced!

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