Changing Jets?

[lebowski]

Thanks to having changed jets on an Ikea (home) kitchen hob when we wanted to run it on butane, is it necessary to change jets when changing from propane to LPG in our Rapido?

Having possibly upset the moderator on the Rapido FB page by asking why Rapido advise against using LPG, I thought I'd ask here.

Thanks in advance

 

[Clivefog]

Propane is an LPG?

 

[lebowski]

Propane is an LPG?

Thanks for the reply. As I understand it and I am happy to be educated, LPG is a mixture of three different gases with a high percentage of butane.
When we moved to rural France we had the choice of running our hob on either butane or propane but we had to change the jets according to the gas we used.

 

[B+W vanman]

Thanks for the reply. As I understand it and I am happy to be educated, LPG is a mixture of three different gases with a high percentage of butane.
When we moved to rural France we had the choice of running our hob on either butane or propane but we had to change the jets according to the gas we used.

So how do you decide which jets to use if LPG is a variable mixture of butane, propane and other volatile petroleum gases?

 

[lebowski]

So how do you decide which jets to use if LPG is a variable mixture of butane, propane and other volatile petroleum gases?

Thanks for the reply, that's part of the reason for asking the question.

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[oldiesontour]

Liquid Petroleum Gas ...are not propane and butane both LPG ?

 

[Mikeco]

Thanks to having changed jets on an Ikea (home) kitchen hob when we wanted to run it on butane, is it necessary to change jets when changing from propane to LPG in our Rapido?

Having possibly upset the moderator on the Rapido FB page by asking why Rapido advise against using LPG, I thought I'd ask here.

Thanks in advance

I believe that they are the same jets which are smaller than those used for normal gas. We have LPG at home and which according to Flogas is a mixture of Propane and Butane,

 

[rosalan]

I believe that the two gasses can vary a little according to the weather. Butane not being as effective in very cold weather but I could be wrong.

 

[Lee bay]

The jet size will be the same for butane and propane if you have a bulkhead regulator that will be 30mb for both gases

 

[oldiesontour]

If I remember correctly butane and propane use the same jets

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[Googlebot]

Basically, you don’t need to touch the jets.

It’s to do with the pressure from the regulator. Both gases, butane and propane run at the same pressure in your motorhome.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Thanks for the reply, that's part of the reason for asking the question.

The flame speeds for the different mixes are going to be very similar, so likely will work on the same jet.

Propane is a 3 carbon alkane and butane is 4 carbon alkane. Mixes are going to be very similar in nature.

 

[lebowski]

Thank you all for the replies.

From what's been said, am I correct in thinking it is more about the pressure than the density, or otherwise, of the gas being used? As the regulator on the MH is set at 30mbar everything works as it should regardless of which gas is used?

As said, perhaps we had to change the jets on our hob as we weren't running mains gas and, potentially, both the butane and propane jets were the same size. Perhaps I am also getting confused over two stroke jetting back in the distant past. Constantly changing jets because the track ran through a forest.

I knew I shouldn't have dropped physics in the third year....

 

[Googlebot]

Thank you all for the replies.

From what's been said, am I correct in thinking it is more about the pressure than the density, or otherwise, of the gas being used? As the regulator on the MH is set at 30mbar everything works as it should regardless of which gas is used?

As said, perhaps we had to change the jets on our hob as we weren't running mains gas and, potentially, both the butane and propane jets were the same size. Perhaps I am also getting confused over two stroke jetting back in the distant past. Constantly changing jets because the track ran through a forest.

I knew I shouldn't have dropped physics in the third year....

The density does make a difference.

That’s why propane and butane used to have different regulators, but a 30mb one works on both so was standardised so it’s much easier to switch.

 

[oldiesontour]

You should be fine to use either butane or propane...it was common practice to swop from butane supplied with caravans to propane for a hotter flame

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[Landy Andy]

In reality you change your jets to suit the regulator (and its pressure) rather than the gas.

 

[lebowski]

If the regulator controls everything from there onwards, why does Rapido (and allegedly other companies) advise against using LPG?

The consensus on the French FB page is that when the vehicle is put through inspection, to be approved to be used in France, a particular gas has to be declared. Using a different gas would therefore mean new approval... Oh the bureaucracy!

Strange however, that Rapido still include the warning of not using LPG in it's English handbook. Unless they were lazy and just had it translated verbatim, of course.

 

[Sewdhull]

Use propane if you can, it produces less co2 than LPG ( a propane/butane mix) or butane.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I believe that the two gasses can vary a little according to the weather. Butane not being as effective in very cold weather

Butane has a higher calorific value giving it more heat for your money, but it needs a higher ambient temperature to stop if freezing when it gasses off from liquid at high flow rates.. (freezer effect).

But they both run at the same pressure if you use a bulk head regulator in your motorhome.

Gas bottle top regulators run at different pressures for propane and butane - but we rarely see them except on old motorhomes.

 

[Mikeco]

Had Caravans and motorhomes for over 50 years and often swapped between Butane and Propane depending upon the season but never changed the gas jets .

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[lebowski]

Use propane if you can, it produces less co2 than LPG ( a propane/butane mix) or butane.

We use propane at the moment but want to spend more time away and don't want to be buying cylinders while we are. Hence looking at going down the refillable LPG route.

 

[Pilote87]

If the regulator controls everything from there onwards, why does Rapido (and allegedly other companies) advise against using LPG?

The consensus on the French FB page is that when the vehicle is put through inspection, to be approved to be used in France, a particular gas has to be declared. Using a different gas would therefore mean new approval... Oh the bureaucracy!

Strange however, that Rapido still include the warning of not using LPG in it's English handbook. Unless they were lazy and just had it translated verbatim, of course.

When I first came to France I brought a Burstner with me which had a twin-bottle Gaslow system installed. In order to obtain a French registration I had to have the complete vehicle inspected by Veritas who then certified that the electrics and gas systems complied with the French regulations. The only "problem" was that I had to put a rigid bottle restraint in. Webbing straps are not acceptable.

John

 

[lebowski]

When I first came to France I brought a Burstner with me which had a twin-bottle Gaslow system installed. In order to obtain a French registration I had to have the complete vehicle inspected by Veritas who then certified that the electrics and gas systems complied with the French regulations. The only "problem" was that I had to put a rigid bottle restraint in. Webbing straps are not acceptable.

John

Salut!

You did well to get it registered by all accounts, maybe being a European marque helped?

I have read about the metal restraints, which shouldn't be a problem, my next question on the Rapido FB page is whether I can install the bottles and filler point myself, or if it has to be done by a professional and then certified. Knowing just how many rules and regs have to be waded through here, I think I know the answer.

 

[CAB96]

Salut!

You did well to get it registered by all accounts, maybe being a European marque helped?

I have read about the metal restraints, which shouldn't be a problem, my next question on the Rapido FB page is whether I can install the bottles and filler point myself, or if it has to be done by a professional and then certified. Knowing just how many rules and regs have to be waded through here, I think I know the answer.

Installation would depend on National legislation.

For the UK, for personal use, there is no restriction on DIY installation.

France may be different.

 

[The Wino]

If the regulator controls everything from there onwards, why does Rapido (and allegedly other companies) advise against using LPG?

The consensus on the French FB page is that when the vehicle is put through inspection, to be approved to be used in France, a particular gas has to be declared. Using a different gas would therefore mean new approval... Oh the bureaucracy!

Strange however, that Rapido still include the warning of not using LPG in it's English handbook. Unless they were lazy and just had it translated verbatim, of course.

Probably because of fears of contaminants in LPG it's the reason some people fit a ceramic filter.

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[lebowski]

Installation would depend on National legislation.

For the UK, for personal use, there is no restriction on DIY installation.

France may be different.

I don't gamble but I'd put a few euros on France being different!

 

[lebowski]

Probably because of fears of contaminants in LPG it's the reason some people fit a ceramic filter.

I'd fit a filter, however I've read that those contaminants stop at the regulator?

I've also read lots of comments that using LPG hasn't had any detrimental effect on the equipment in their MHs and no comments that there has been damage.

 

[The Wino]

I'd fit a filter, however I've read that those contaminants stop at the regulator?

I've also read lots of comments that using LPG hasn't had any detrimental effect on the equipment in their MHs and no comments that there has been damage.

I'm not saying it's likely to cause a problem but from a manufacturer point of view why cover anything you don't need to

 

[meanders]

Piped natural gas is predominant methane that has very different properties to both propane and butane. Google confirms the composition on piped gas in France is very similar to the UK. You have to change jets here to run domestic appliances on bottled or tanked gas. That's why you had to do it on the domestic hob.

Those of us with long memories will remember the conversion from Town gas, derived from coal, and natural gas. That also required a jet change and change of home regulator. Oddly enough my mum and my wife's mum both at New World 42 cookers when we met. My mum was told that it couldn't be converted and she would have to buy new, but Hilary's mum's was converted but reportedly was never the same to cook on and she changed it for a new one after a couple of years.

 

[lebowski]

I'm not saying it's likely to cause a problem but from a manufacturer point of view why cover anything you don't need to

Because you want to give the customer as much choice as possible....?

What planet am I on....?

AFAIK The manufacturers of the fridge, hob and heater in my MH all state they can run on LPG, so there shouldn't be a problem. Unless of course Rapido (et al) either don't want to argue the toss as to who pays for any warranty replacements? Or perhaps just want to limit the amount of replacements.

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