Change to Highway Code and cyclists responsibilities

[busby]

The level crossing at Thatcham train station can be closed to traffic for 20min.
A cyclist navigated to the front of the queue.
He set off with the whole tailback of motor vehicles behind him along a winding country road

Took some balls or just ignorance.

Funny how Brits get wound up.As a cyclist in Spain I do get embarrassed on narrow lanes when I can't pull in because Spanish drivers just sit patiently behind you with no revving,no hooting just utter patience. I know it must be really annoying and it's only the odd cyclist that doesn't care but there are bigger troubles in life.BUSBY.

 

[PaddyM]

i gave up riding in the UK a while back. Last time we came over and I brought a bike with me the combination of rain, potholes and drivers trying to kill me kinda put me off cycling in my home country

I’ll stick to riding in countries where drivers seem to have a decent respect for other road users and have enough time to not always be under pressure to get to the supermarket or what ever….

I pity anyone that is unfortunate enough to have to survive on UK roads on a bicycle

Off for another ride this afternoon in the Alps where my only issue will likely be cows and where to find a good coffee stop

I ride in this country ALL time and do NOT recognise the place you describe, survive on UK roads ?

 

[busby]

I ride in this country ALL time and do NOT recognise the place you describe, survive on UK roads ?

If your luckyBUSBY.

 

[Helen Ariel]

So i ventured out on my bike for some much needed exercise this afternoon most of the ride was off road but we had a couple of miles on a very narrow twisty country lane with high grassy banks and within about 10 minutes had several rather close passes but nothing out of the ordinary and then a very scary experience which sadly happens all to often. We came around a corner and a large 4wd was approaching a side road. At 1st i sensed it was just going to pull straight out but thankfully it stopped at the last second as it would have knocked us flying. It then proceeded to floor it past us on a blind bend and guess what another car was coming the other way thankfully quite slowly so the 4wd was able to lurch back in front of us missing us and the oncoming car by a fag paper. Knowing the road i knew this huge risk to our lives was utterly pointless as just a bit further down this road is a bridge with lights to cross as it's so narrow and there is a permanent traffic jam here so we soon caught the 4wd up and got a picture to report to the police.

Despite this being a fairly regular experience of mine i am not about to start spouting on about 'motorists this motorists that' i accept that humans are imperfect and some are just idiots but it's nothing to do with their particular choice of transport.

Please please can people consider this next time you decide to have a rant at 'cyclists'

 

[Larrynwin]

Yes let's do that for pedestrians too then

Pedestrians generally use pavements . Hi vis on cyclists on the highway should be mandatory.

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[Silver-Fox]

Perhaps when every fast car is saved for the track or Grand Prix

Sounds good to me

 

[dunnah01]

I'm still not sure what the mechanism is for informing cyclists that if they wing a pedestrian they could have the no blame lawyers chasing them for whiplash and all sorts. Motorists have the Highway Code but there's no equivalent for cyclists (or ebike/scooters) to be informed of their liabilities

 

[Beltie]

Remind me again - how much VED does a cyclist pay?
How frequently is a bicycle MOT'd

I think you must know that no zero emissions vehicles pay VED - at least you didn't call it 'road tax'.
My wife and I, by our membership of Cycling UK have £10m public liability insurance each. Will that do you? I believe that British Cycling has similar provisions.

 

[Beltie]

I'm still not sure what the mechanism is for informing cyclists that if they wing a pedestrian they could have the no blame lawyers chasing them for whiplash and all sorts. Motorists have the Highway Code but there's no equivalent for cyclists (or ebike/scooters) to be informed of their liabilities

The Highway Code is applicable to all road users, not just motorists, as a quick glance at it would tell you.

 

[Helen Ariel]

Pedestrians generally use pavements . Hi vis on cyclists on the highway should be mandatory.

They also cross roads and walk along country roads. Came across a pedestrian walking the wrong way along a country lane when I was driving the other day. No visibility and should have been facing the oncoming traffic but I'm not about to start ranting that all peds need high vis, helmets and licences to walk in the carriageway.

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[PhilMary]

Should the fast road bike be saved for the track or TDF then

Only as much as your car should only be used on a race track.

 

[busby]

The Highway Code is applicable to all road users, not just motorists, as a quick glance at it would tell you.

It's rather obvious that very few ever read it.BUSBY

 

[dunnah01]

The Highway Code is applicable to all road users, not just motorists, as a quick glance at it would tell you.

Not sure most under 17s would know that though?

 

[Sandancers]

My two-penith on this.

Firstly, it could lead to a few more crash for cash incidents, but I can't see ordinary people looking at a vehicle coming down the road at them and then thinking, "Doesn't matter, I've got right of way, it will certainly stop for me!"

Second thing is that before too long we may see the advent of self driving (probably a call up service) cars on the roads. Now, assuming they are programmed to obey the law then they would be constantly stopping if a pedestrian happened to be standing near a kerb, or hanging back for miles and miles behind a group of cyclists who are taking great delight in using the full lane width. So the journey time of these self driving cars would certainly be longer than any human, slight risk taking driver.

If the self driving cars take longer than "normal" cars who will use them ? Therefore Tesla or whoever will kick up a right fuss. Going to be an interesting battle !

 

[Sandancers]

If you are in a car and jump a red light and kill someone in doing so, I think that would be classed as "causing death by dangerous driving" and could be libel for a jail sentence of up to 10 years I think ? The victim's family could also claim against the drivers insurance.

So how come someone on a bike doing the exact same act only gets two years, see below ? And can the victim's family claim against any insurance ? I think not.


A ‘cowardly’ cyclist who ran over and badly injured an NHS hospital worker in a hit-and-run crash has been jailed for two years.
Ermir Loka, 23, ignored a red traffic light in the seconds before he hit 72-year-old Peter McCombie on July 3, 2020, who was on his way home from a shift at the Royal London hospital.
Mr McCombie, a HR administrator who was helping the NHS battle against Covid-19, suffered serious head injuries and died in hospital just over a week later.

Snaresbrook crown court heard Loka, an Albanian national who had entered the UK illegally, fled the scene of the crash as he was scared that his immigration status would be discovered.

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[MattR]

If you are in a car and jump a red light and kill someone in doing so, I think that would be classed as "causing death by dangerous driving" and could be libel for a jail sentence of up to 10 years I think ? The victim's family could also claim against the drivers insurance.

So how come someone on a bike doing the exact same act only gets two years, see below ? And can the victim's family claim against any insurance ? I think not.


A ‘cowardly’ cyclist who ran over and badly injured an NHS hospital worker in a hit-and-run crash has been jailed for two years.
Ermir Loka, 23, ignored a red traffic light in the seconds before he hit 72-year-old Peter McCombie on July 3, 2020, who was on his way home from a shift at the Royal London hospital.
Mr McCombie, a HR administrator who was helping the NHS battle against Covid-19, suffered serious head injuries and died in hospital just over a week later.

Snaresbrook crown court heard Loka, an Albanian national who had entered the UK illegally, fled the scene of the crash as he was scared that his immigration status would be discovered.

How come some drivers don't get locked up at all when they kill others?

Driver who killed teen pedestrian handed suspended sentence

Nigel Davies, 54, lost concentration behind the wheel before he struck 19-year-old Deividas Andrijauskas

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[John Barrett]

How come some drivers don't get locked up at all when they kill others?

Driver who killed teen pedestrian handed suspended sentence

Nigel Davies, 54, lost concentration behind the wheel before he struck 19-year-old Deividas Andrijauskas

www.walesonline.co.uk

One of the first things we were told when I was at Hendon Police College: "If you want to kill someone then you should run them over..."!

 

[Sandancers]

How come some drivers don't get locked up at all when they kill others?

Driver who killed teen pedestrian handed suspended sentence

Nigel Davies, 54, lost concentration behind the wheel before he struck 19-year-old Deividas Andrijauskas

www.walesonline.co.uk

Good question, don't agree with it at all. I wonder if the poor lad's family at least got any insurance compo ?

Heaven forbid, but if YOU hit and killed someone while on your bike would their family get any compo ?

 

[SpeedyDux]

If you are in a car and jump a red light and kill someone in doing so, I think that would be classed as "causing death by dangerous driving" and could be libel for a jail sentence of up to 10 years I think ? The victim's family could also claim against the drivers insurance.

So how come someone on a bike doing the exact same act only gets two years, see below ? And can the victim's family claim against any insurance ? I think not.


A ‘cowardly’ cyclist who ran over and badly injured an NHS hospital worker in a hit-and-run crash has been jailed for two years.
Ermir Loka, 23, ignored a red traffic light in the seconds before he hit 72-year-old Peter McCombie on July 3, 2020, who was on his way home from a shift at the Royal London hospital.
Mr McCombie, a HR administrator who was helping the NHS battle against Covid-19, suffered serious head injuries and died in hospital just over a week later.

Snaresbrook crown court heard Loka, an Albanian national who had entered the UK illegally, fled the scene of the crash as he was scared that his immigration status would be discovered.

And can the victim's family claim against any insurance ?

They could apply for statutory compensation for the death of a close relative caused by violent crime, under the Criminal Injuries Compensation scheme. It's not generous but then you wouldn't expect it to be.

How come some drivers don't get locked up at all when they kill others?

Driver who killed teen pedestrian handed suspended sentence

Nigel Davies, 54, lost concentration behind the wheel before he struck 19-year-old Deividas Andrijauskas

www.walesonline.co.uk

The Judge might have been swayed by the mitigating factors - in particular the 5 years that it took for the case to come to court, and the effect having this prosecution hanging over him for so long had on the Defendant. My guess.

 

[MattR]

Good question, don't agree with it at all. I wonder if the poor lad's family at least got any insurance compo ?

Heaven forbid, but if YOU hit and killed someone while on your bike would their family get any compo ?

I don't know but as a sense of proportion, how many people are killed by cars each year compared to killed by cyclists?

Nearly 700 cyclists were killed by vehicles last year... Nearly the same as two full jumbo jets crashing in a year. Laws would change if that happened and few would ask why the law needs changing. Dividing it into deaths over a year, approx 2 per day and asking car drivers to be more responsible seems to upset some drivers.

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[JJ]

I am ashamed of myself, honestly, but I do enjoy reading threads which involve an element of "hand bag waving early in the morning".

Certain keywords in the title of the thread indicate the possibility of such excitement.

"Cyclists" is one such keyword along with...

Generators
Grey waste emptying
Off site overnighting
Speeding
Dogs

and several others...

Thanks for posting.


JJ

 

[Sandancers]

I don't know but as a sense of proportion, how many people are killed by cars each year compared to killed by cyclists?

Nearly 700 cyclists were killed by vehicles last year... Nearly the same as two full jumbo jets crashing in a year. Laws would change if that happened and few would ask why the law needs changing. Dividing it into deaths over a year, approx 2 per day and asking car drivers to be more responsible seems to upset some drivers.

I'm not upset having to have due regard for cycle or horse riders.

But we do need some fairness here. Yes, deaths caused by cyclists are rare, but there does seem to be an increasing number of deaths caused by electric scooters, which I presume are similarly bereft of insurance.

I only alluded to the none existent payout for death in the case of the man killed by a cyclist. What is probably more important is a payout from insurance if the victim suffers massive and life changing injuries which require long term medical help or alterations to their lifestyle, for instance constant care. These can be massive payouts from the insurance companies in the case of car accidents. Who provides the cash if a cyclist causes the same injuries ?

I see that is there an insurance policy available right now which cyclists, (and presumably electric scooter riders and horse riders) can buy which would cover THEM in the event of THEM causing death or injury to a third party. So, have you got one ? If not, why not ?

 

[Beltie]

I'm not upset having to have due regard for cycle or horse riders.

But we do need some fairness here. Yes, deaths caused by cyclists are rare, but there does seem to be an increasing number of deaths caused by electric scooters, which I presume are similarly bereft of insurance.

I only alluded to the none existent payout for death in the case of the man killed by a cyclist. What is probably more important is a payout from insurance if the victim suffers massive and life changing injuries which require long term medical help or alterations to their lifestyle, for instance constant care. These can be massive payouts from the insurance companies in the case of car accidents. Who provides the cash if a cyclist causes the same injuries ?

I see that is there an insurance policy available right now which cyclists, (and presumably electric scooter riders and horse riders) can buy which would cover THEM in the event of THEM causing death or injury to a third party. So, have you got one ? If not, why not ?

See my response re insurance in post#68.

 

[Sandancers]

See my response re insurance in post#68.

Excellent, but I was asking Mattygwr.

 

[Beltie]

Excellent, but I was asking Mattygwr.

Yes but it does give a relevant response to your comments.

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[MattR]

I'm not upset having to have due regard for cycle or horse riders.

But we do need some fairness here. Yes, deaths caused by cyclists are rare, but there does seem to be an increasing number of deaths caused by electric scooters, which I presume are similarly bereft of insurance.

I only alluded to the none existent payout for death in the case of the man killed by a cyclist. What is probably more important is a payout from insurance if the victim suffers massive and life changing injuries which require long term medical help or alterations to their lifestyle, for instance constant care. These can be massive payouts from the insurance companies in the case of car accidents. Who provides the cash if a cyclist causes the same injuries ?

I see that is there an insurance policy available right now which cyclists, (and presumably electric scooter riders and horse riders) can buy which would cover THEM in the event of THEM causing death or injury to a third party. So, have you got one ? If not, why not ?

Yes, I'm insured as are the rest of us in my immediate family and many of my cycling friends. I can't give figures as it isn't something we declare but I would suggest that it is the vast majority. However, that doesn't mean that the majority of cyclists are insured.

I would suggest that the vast majority of e-scooter riders are not insured to use them since they are illegal to use outside of trial areas and I doubt that those in trial areas will have taken out extra insurance and don't know if cover is included in the hire fees.

 

[busby]

If you are in a car and jump a red light and kill someone in doing so, I think that would be classed as "causing death by dangerous driving" and could be libel for a jail sentence of up to 10 years I think ? The victim's family could also claim against the drivers insurance.

So how come someone on a bike doing the exact same act only gets two years, see below ? And can the victim's family claim against any insurance ? I think not.


A ‘cowardly’ cyclist who ran over and badly injured an NHS hospital worker in a hit-and-run crash has been jailed for two years.
Ermir Loka, 23, ignored a red traffic light in the seconds before he hit 72-year-old Peter McCombie on July 3, 2020, who was on his way home from a shift at the Royal London hospital.
Mr McCombie, a HR administrator who was helping the NHS battle against Covid-19, suffered serious head injuries and died in hospital just over a week later.

Snaresbrook crown court heard Loka, an Albanian national who had entered the UK illegally, fled the scene of the crash as he was scared that his immigration status would be discovered.

The sentence the cyclist received is just down to the law of our country..Mind you that Tram driver last week in the news killed 5 or 6 passengers and wasn't prosecuted.Funny thing the law.BUSBY.

 

[Sandancers]

Yes, I'm insured as are the rest of us in my immediate family and many of my cycling friends. I can't give figures as it isn't something we declare but I would suggest that it is the vast majority. However, that doesn't mean that the majority of cyclists are insured.

I would suggest that the vast majority of e-scooter riders are not insured to use them since they are illegal to use outside of trial areas and I doubt that those in trial areas will have taken out extra insurance and don't know if cover is included in the hire fees.

Excellent to hear, then no doubt you would support any proposal to make it compulsory for cycle, horse and e scooter users to have insurance and it be a criminal offence, similar to car drivers, if they don't ?

 

[Clipgate]

Contentious issues well covered I believe in the attached article.
Do not confuse should,s with must.

What’s legal – and what’s not – on your bike? | Cycling UK

Riding two abreast, in the middle of the lane, with or without lights, reflectors and hi-vis – what does the law say, what does the Highway Code advise, and what are just urban myths? Cycling UK’s Senior Road Safety and Legal Campaigner Duncan Dollimore explains what’s legal on your bike

www.cyclinguk.org

 

[busby]

I'm not upset having to have due regard for cycle or horse riders.

But we do need some fairness here. Yes, deaths caused by cyclists are rare, but there does seem to be an increasing number of deaths caused by electric scooters, which I presume are similarly bereft of insurance.

I only alluded to the none existent payout for death in the case of the man killed by a cyclist. What is probably more important is a payout from insurance if the victim suffers massive and life changing injuries which require long term medical help or alterations to their lifestyle, for instance constant care. These can be massive payouts from the insurance companies in the case of car accidents. Who provides the cash if a cyclist causes the same injuries ?

I see that is there an insurance policy available right now which cyclists, (and presumably electric scooter riders and horse riders) can buy which would cover THEM in the event of THEM causing death or injury to a third party. So, have you got one ? If not, why not ?

How many car drivers would buy insurance if it wasn't mandatory..??BUSBY.

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