CBE Control Panel & CBE Distribution Unit/Fuse Box

[funflair]

Well discovered! You did very well to find that - like a needle in a haystack!

That was there when I bought it so I imagine that its original N + B fitment. It is certainly nothing that VB added. The previous owners were the sort never to touch anything! The blue light is always on when there is a charged battery connected and off when the battery is disconnected.

However your idea is a good one as there is a little black wire that goes off into the distribution box so is connected to part of the brain of the thing and may well be affecting the coming back to life!

I think the black wire is just to give it a -ve feed, and yes it did take some finding good job I don't bill by the hour
http://nocache.victronenergy.com/up...zing-BG40_60_200-Victron-meertalig_070227.pdf

Martin

 

[Abacist]

Supplementary comment on the blue light gizmo. I needed to get the van out to do some work in the garden so have not yet bridged it out but the blue light goes out when you disconnect the little black wire and also when the little black wire is disconnected the electric step stops working so it is a bit essential!

 

[RioRob]

CBE supply lots of different versions of their distribution box which have a model number base i.e. DS450 but the specific version needs the 6 digit number. I think the number on your distribution box is 209458 which you'll need for a replacement if necessary.
When I had a problem with my DS300 I had to get a specific replacement which was a DS300UK 209018.

You mention having 14.2v from the CTEK charger. Is this measured on the B1 and B2 terminals and what is the voltage on the B1 and B2? with the CTEK disconnected.

Unfortunately I can't find a wiring diagram for the DS450 which would be a great help (obviously) in trouble shooting the problem.

 

[funflair]

Supplementary comment on the blue light gizmo. I needed to get the van out to do some work in the garden so have not yet bridged it out but the blue light goes out when you disconnect the little black wire and also when the little black wire is disconnected the electric step stops working so it is a bit essential!

I guess that proves that the blue light thingy is working OK as disconnecting the black wire is obviously turning it off along with all power to the panel hence the step not working, I was wondering if you were just getting a very low current supply past it that showed up on the voltmeter but wouldn't run anything but running the step sort of say's it's OK.

Martin

 

[Abacist]

Got to do some work in the garden now but my thinking is that I need to get the distribution unit out of the van to examine it to see if there are any visible signs of damage or overheating. Its the bit that will have to be sent away in any event if I can't get anything working! That will help me resolve the order in which things are wired in the van as at present there are so many wires in that birds nest its not entirely obvious!

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[funflair]

Yes I am supposed to be doing a bit as well, If I had to gamble my money would be on the control panel it would be worth seeing if there is power up to it.

Martin

 

[Bobby22]

Yes I am supposed to be doing a bit as well, If I had to gamble my money would be on the control panel it would be worth seeing if there is power up to it.

Martin

I tend to agree with you @funflair There may be a fault in the " ELECTONIC BOARD min voltage module" in the control panel as in the photo of my PC-180
After it locked out it may not have re- set.

 

[Pausim]

I tend to agree with you @funflair There may be a fault in the " ELECTONIC BOARD min voltage module" in the control panel as in the photo of my PC-180
After it locked out it may not have re- set.

The control panel has been mentioned a few times. In the link posted by @Bobby22 reporting on the same problem it was the panel that was at fault not the distribution board. I think it would be a mistake to ignore this possibility. One post even refers to an sos switch that can be used to overide the control panel but I got the impression that not all the distribution boards have this facility.

 

[Bobby22]

The control panel has been mentioned a few times. In the link posted by @Bobby22 reporting on the same problem it was the panel that was at fault not the distribution board. I think it would be a mistake to ignore this possibility. One post even refers to an sos switch that can be used to overide the control panel but I got the impression that not all the distribution boards have this facility.

I think the SOS. Switch only lasts for one minute. It allows you to switch the power on again and shuts down completly until the batteries get up to a charging voltage.

BTW I am the Bobby22 you quoted and tagged....lol

 

[Pausim]

BTW I am the Bobby22 you quoted and tagged....lol

I realised that after posting but was really trying to reinforce your point that the control panel should not be overlooked. Interesting point about the sos switch, still might help narrow down the fault.

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[Abacist]

I have been too busy to progress but tomorrow I need to make a few phone calls.

I'll try the various third party repairers that you can send the control unit to to get an idea of a price for a fix, bearing in mind that there have been previous reports that they have not come back fully functional.

The alternative is a new unit from N + B direct or via Travelworld again depending on price.

The problem in both cases is that the unit requires programming and part of that is supposedly dealer only work so even if I go down this route am I going to be able to get the system going again? Last time I tried to book into Travelworld the wait time was diabolical (months) as the service department was so busy.

Here we have the classic dilemma of buying an expensive van secondhand privately.

Somewhat depressed that N + B have used CBE equipment which does not sound as good as what Hymer use but maybe I am being unfair too soon in this diagnosis

 

[funflair]

I have been too busy to progress but tomorrow I need to make a few phone calls.

I'll try the various third party repairers that you can send the control unit to to get an idea of a price for a fix, bearing in mind that there have been previous reports that they have not come back fully functional.

The alternative is a new unit from N + B direct or via Travelworld again depending on price.

The problem in both cases is that the unit requires programming and part of that is supposedly dealer only work so even if I go down this route am I going to be able to get the system going again? Last time I tried to book into Travelworld the wait time was diabolical (months) as the service department was so busy.

Here we have the classic dilemma of buying an expensive van secondhand privately.

Somewhat depressed that N + B have used CBE equipment which does not sound as good as what Hymer use but maybe I am being unfair too soon in this diagnosis

Sounds like a mercy dash to the factory is in order, tell them you are on the continent and nothing working and can they fit you in.

Martin

 

[Pausim]

What functions does the N&B labelled control panel do that the standard CBE unit does not? Perhaps worth emailing CBE to find out whether they can come up with a quicker/cheaper solution. I can’t help wondering whether the panels made for individual manufacturers are all much the same as the standard ones, just with a different logo stamped on them.

 

[Lucy Wire]

I had similar when I inadvertently blew my 240v AND 12v in -17c at night in France (Milleau Bridge). I discovered the blown fuse (eventually) was a 125amp link near the main batteries. Replaced and 240v was ok. But still no 12v.
I had visions of dismembering my underfloor wiring by torchlight. Driven on by the demented wailing of ' she who must be obeyed! (Sharon was not happy at all)
Eventually got all working by disconnecting both the leisure batteries AND the engine 12v.
Then reconnecting leisure batteries before 12v engine - seems the internal memory doesn't reboot unless all power is taken down!

 

[Abacist]

What functions does the N&B labelled control panel do that the standard CBE unit does not? Perhaps worth emailing CBE to find out whether they can come up with a quicker/cheaper solution. I can’t help wondering whether the panels made for individual manufacturers are all much the same as the standard ones, just with a different logo stamped on them.

The buttons are different to start with and thus the wiring to the panel will be different to match. I think this might not be a good idea but thanks for the thought.

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[Abacist]

I had similar when I inadvertently blew my 240v AND 12v in -17c at night in France (Milleau Bridge). I discovered the blown fuse (eventually) was a 125amp link near the main batteries. Replaced and 240v was ok. But still no 12v.
I had visions of dismembering my underfloor wiring by torchlight. Driven on by the demented wailing of ' she who must be obeyed! (Sharon was not happy at all)
Eventually got all working by disconnecting both the leisure batteries AND the engine 12v.
Then reconnecting leisure batteries before 12v engine - seems the internal memory doesn't reboot unless all power is taken down!

That must have been a huge trauma at the time. I’d better read up about my VanBitz alarm and tracker before disconnecting the cab battery but I’ll try this tomorrow! Many thanks for this most helpful suggestion.

 

[Abacist]

Sounds like a mercy dash to the factory is in order, tell them you are on the continent and nothing working and can they fit you in.

Martin

If disconnecting the cab battery does not work then that sounds appealing but the logistics will need some thinking about. No hab lighting And no cooking hob I can cope with but water and loo could be an issue!

 

[Lucy Wire]

That must have been a huge trauma at the time. I’d better read up about my VanBitz alarm and tracker before disconnecting the cab battery but I’ll try this tomorrow! Many thanks for this most helpful suggestion.

When I say 'I blew the electrics' I should have said ''we". One of 'we' plugged in an industrial grade hair drier rather than the neat little 12v drier I had provided. So as 'we' had wet hair to boot the ensuing discussion by torchlight was less than cordial.
Forgot to mention this was an older N&B Flair. Sadly now sold :-(

 

[funflair]

If disconnecting the cab battery does not work then that sounds appealing but the logistics will need some thinking about. No hab lighting And no cooking hob I can cope with but water and loo could be an issue!

You have unplugged the control panel and then plugged back in haven't you?

Martin

 

[Abacist]

You have unplugged the control panel and then plugged back in haven't you?

Martin

Oh yes! Both at the control panel and at the distribution box!

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[Abacist]

Plan of campaign for tomorrow:-

Open up the CBE charger and check the two fuses in there are intact

Check any other fuses between the batteries and the distribution box - there are a couple that I have seen but not yet checked but somewhat remote from the CBE kit

Check the Vanbitz data and then disconnect the cab battery and hab batteries then go and have a coffee to let any charge or current dissipate

Reconnect the hab batteries and then see if the control panel will come on

That only leaves replacing random relays on a whim and perhaps some cable disconnect between the distribution box and the control panel or either a faulty control panel or distribution box which is all buried where I can't get at it!

Then the phone calls will have to start!

 

[Abacist]

Drawn a blank with my efforts today still nothing but I did get 5 short beeps in quick succession and then some time later 1 longer beep and I managed that twice with everything disconnected in between time. Probably an audible message that its kaput! The CBE user manual has nothing to say about problem solving, audible tones of that description etc so again pretty useless other than for identifying what fuse does what and how to program the clock etc.

I have 'phoned Travelworld for advice but its the opening of their new premises today so everyone is busy. Someone is to call me in the morning from the Service Department. Earliest date available in the service department is 1 March which is not too bad.

 

[canopus]

Id take it to a good Auto Electrician who's used to Motorhomes. Somebody like Rob Leaf at https://www.automateuk.com
Save yourself some money and get the problem fixed.

 

[Pausim]

I think you are in Devon @Abacist in which case Apuljack Engineering in Somerset might be nearer you. See earlier post by @TheBig1 . They list CBE and give a warranty on repairs.

 

[Abacist]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have not yet ruled anything out and I can imagine that Travelworld unless just providing help over the phone will be very expensive.

Apuljack certainly looks very promising and I will be calling them tomorrow.

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[Abacist]

I have sent Apuljack a detailed email explaining the problem with photos etc and hope for a phone call tomorrow.

 

[Abacist]

Now heard back from Apuljack who propose the following which I am putting to my warranty company to pre-approve the repairs.

I have reviewed your below email with one of our senior engineers and we believe that either the distribution box or charging unit may be at fault.

Given that something caused the breaker to trip, we can assume an excess of current has been present in the system at one time, which may have caused some damage to the 12V power distribution systems. This could be localised to the control panel itself or, more likely, the distribution box – but it is also possible that the charger has suffered a knock as well. Your charger does not just charge the leisure battery, it also provides 12V power to your vehicle whilst it is on hook-up.

If you would like to send us all three units we can conduct a full inspection and repair for the fixed price costs listed below. These prices include all spares and labour to investigate each unit and fully repair it to working order. Work is warrantied for 12 months and we estimate repairs will take between 7 and 10 working days.

PC320 & DS450 Paired Price £220

CB-516 Charger £165

Return Shipping £7.50

I can't see Travelworld competing with this though I have asked them for prices for the three units.

No doubt the warranty company will find some excuse to wriggle out in which case I'll pay myself but its worth a try.

 

[TinaLes]

Hi @Abicist
Thanks for updating the thread, sorry you are still having problems.
Thinking about it, any dealer would simply have to replace the faulty unit as they probably dont have electronics knowledge down to component level, they would also need some serious test equipment also.
I would have no hesitation of removing all three units and taking them down to Apuljack in person, even though that would involve a trip of 130/40 miles for me. You can then meet the engineers and see the sort of mods they do to upgrade the components that commonly fail for higher grade, stronger ones.
I know from my caravaning days that many swift owners sent their Sergeant PSU's to them for repair & upgrade. Most had them back in a week or so, and were very pleased with results.
Good luck, I am sure they will get it sorted out for you.

Les

 

[Abacist]

I also asked Travelworld for prices for new parts and their reply is as follows which is not as dear as I was expecting but I will go for the repair/reconditioning by Apuljack:-

Thank you for your enquiry through our website .

I can confirm the prices for the items you require are as follows

1) Control Panel PC320-HY £374.52 inc VAT
2) Distribution box DS450-HY ££418.00 inc VAT
3) CBE 16 Amp charger £ £322.56 inc VAT

Delivery would be at a cost of £9.60
Please let me know if you wish to proceed with an order .
Kind Regards
Maria Harris
Operations Adminstrator
Erwin Hymer Centre (Travelworld)
Valley Drive
M6 Junction 14
Stafford, ST16 1NZ
Tel: 01785 87 87 87

 

[Abacist]

The three CBE electrical items have now been removed from the van ready to take to Apuljack having taken plenty of photos. The charger was the worst as it was under the floor but well recessed away from the hatch in the floor and having removed the four screws it was loose but refused to come out. I had to remove the casing from the adjacent mains trip box which was holding it in place and it came out readily once that had been removed.

At this point the step and the electronic door lock ceased to work so have had to lock using the key but it is still alarmed and has its tracker working.

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