Carthago Electrical Mystery

[two]

Above posts are correct, about a separator.

I came back to add that, if the juxtaposition of the battery wires in the CBE unit was performed when solar was added, I'd check out the solar wiring. It may be that your solar is fed into the starter rather than habitation battery.
Carthago pre-install wiring for Solar but many installers seem to ignore that and use their own wires. The installer may have joined their feed to the same terminals in the CBE (a little unconventional, but it would 'work').
Carthago's wires go to above the fridge from the battery, via the RHS of the cab (somewhere in or behind a cupboard). The wires are not connected where they meet in the cab, which may be why they are not used in a later installation (they cannot find them). The controller is expected to be installed in that cupboard, connecting the feed from the panels to the habitation battery.

 

[Marten]

If your main board has the two relays and diode similar to these: then you won't have a separate battery separator so could save yourself a lot of hunting about - but it won't solve your problem

View attachment 862340

I did have a quick look at the area by the cab door step, and to say I was daunted by the prospect of removing all the trim etc, is a an understatement. So thanks for saving me the time. Marten.

 

[Marten]

Hello We have a Carthago compact and found the starter battery going flat, even though it is being charged indirectly via B2B solar. So I bought a 120w collapsible portable solar panel. Placed it on our internal dash and connected it directly (via its regulator) to the starter battery. Problem solved for about £200 Now leave radio on, when on walk about as a break-in deterrent

Nice idea. Thanks.

 

[Lenny HB]

This may not be of use to you, a few years ago with then our brand Carthago Malibou. Our van battery kept going flat. After a lot of time wasted on trying to find the fault, we found by chance the following problem.

It seems that Carthago wire their radio direct to the van battery. As we listen to the radio quite a lot it seems that this was causing the problem. We then had our radio rewired to our leisure batteries problem solved!! Contacted Carthago in Germany and reply had is “We always do it that way”

Colyboy

Hello We have a Carthago compact and found the starter battery going flat, even though it is being charged indirectly via B2B solar. So I bought a 120w collapsible portable solar panel. Placed it on our internal dash and connected it directly (via its regulator) to the starter battery. Problem solved for about £200 Now leave radio on, when on walk about as a break-in deterrent

It's not so much the way they wire them but the Head unit they - Pioneer.
Pioneer's don't actually turn off they go into standby mode and still draw 2 amps or more. So it's important to switch off the media switch on the control panel after use as this cuts the power to the unit.

 

[Pausim]

On my Pioneer I have to hold the power button down for several seconds before it shuts down properly, a simple push just leaves it in a standby mode.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Carthago pre-install wiring for Solar but many installers seem to ignore that and use their own wires. The installer may have joined their feed to the same terminals in the CBE (a little unconventional, but it would 'work').
Carthago's wires go to above the fridge from the battery, via the RHS of the cab (somewhere in or behind a cupboard). The wires are not connected where they meet in the cab,

I have come across one install where the professionals had wired the solar panels to the controllers and fitted the controllers above the TecTower oven lying on their back (supposed to be mounted vertically) in an area that gets up to over 70°C. Connected the output to Carthagos cables & connected the cables by the battery to the battery. They were not aware the cables near the battery were not the same as the cables that go up to the roof. Obviously tested the system well!
Customer was unaware his solar was not working for a year as they had fitted a 60 amp B2B at the same time & that was coping with his needs.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hi all. I wonder if anyone can shed light on an electrical mystery. My 2018 Carthago Compactline (Ducato Chassis) has developed an issue that is baffling me.

The Starter Battery has begun going flat without EHU after about three days unoccupied. I presume it is shot and a multimeter across the terminals confirms this with the Starter Battery at just over 11v and the Leisure Battery at approx 14v

But here's the thing.... the control panel in the van shows the Starter battery as full and the Leisure battery as nearly dead. Definitely. Checked and re-checked.

To back up this seemingly backwards reading.....without EHU, and with the habitation lights and TV on, the Starter Battery drains even faster (just a few hours.) Meanwhile the Leisure Battery remains on approx 14v. My understanding is that this shouldn't be possible.

I have a solar panel and a split charger controller on it, but that on it's own evidently isn't proving enough to keep the Starter battery topped up enough without EHU.

I suspect I will have to take it to a specialist and I'm sure they will explain / fix it, but I would like to be able to go with a bit more knowledge and make sure that if there is a bigger issue, they sort it out, rather than just supply a new Starter Battery.

Has anyone had a similar experience ?

Many thanks.

Marten.

You have answered your problem yourself, wired wrong way around, swap the wiring around that feeds the batteries.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hi all. I wonder if anyone can shed light on an electrical mystery. My 2018 Carthago Compactline (Ducato Chassis) has developed an issue that is baffling me.

The Starter Battery has begun going flat without EHU after about three days unoccupied. I presume it is shot and a multimeter across the terminals confirms this with the Starter Battery at just over 11v and the Leisure Battery at approx 14v

But here's the thing.... the control panel in the van shows the Starter battery as full and the Leisure battery as nearly dead. Definitely. Checked and re-checked.

To back up this seemingly backwards reading.....without EHU, and with the habitation lights and TV on, the Starter Battery drains even faster (just a few hours.) Meanwhile the Leisure Battery remains on approx 14v. My understanding is that this shouldn't be possible.

I have a solar panel and a split charger controller on it, but that on it's own evidently isn't proving enough to keep the Starter battery topped up enough without EHU.

I suspect I will have to take it to a specialist and I'm sure they will explain / fix it, but I would like to be able to go with a bit more knowledge and make sure that if there is a bigger issue, they sort it out, rather than just supply a new Starter Battery.

Has anyone had a similar experience ?

Many thanks.

Marten.

But you will need a new starter battery

 

[Marten]

Above posts are correct, about a separator.

I came back to add that, if the juxtaposition of the battery wires in the CBE unit was performed when solar was added, I'd check out the solar wiring. It may be that your solar is fed into the starter rather than habitation battery.
Carthago pre-install wiring for Solar but many installers seem to ignore that and use their own wires. The installer may have joined their feed to the same terminals in the CBE (a little unconventional, but it would 'work').
Carthago's wires go to above the fridge from the battery, via the RHS of the cab (somewhere in or behind a cupboard). The wires are not connected where they meet in the cab, which may be why they are not used in a later installation (they cannot find them). The controller is expected to be installed in that cupboard, connecting the feed from the panels to the habitation battery.

Thanks Two. My Solar Controller - which is in the top-opening cupboard to the right of the handbrake. It is a split controller with lights for each battery. From what I can tell it seems to behave in line with what I would expect - LED's showing full or charging at the correct times. My quandary is whether it's safe to simply swap my B1 and B2 battery wires over, given the complexity of the whole wiring system/solar add ons etc.

Seeing as I definitely need a new Starter Battery and want to consider a Lithium LB upgrade, I think I'm going to go to the NEC show next week and have a chat with someone like RoadPro about checking out the whole system.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

Marten.

 

[two]

You won't need Lithium for the starter battery. If the starter battery has not survived (it may be OK), swap it for another Lead-Acid one (about £100).
If your habitation battery has done little work, I'd keep going with that unless you are desperate to save weight.
I'm pretty sure that swapping the B! & B2 wires around will do the trick. Otherwise get a professional to do it for you - they should have a good 'heads up' from the information gained from this thread. Sounds like the solar controller is wired OK so, maybe the wire swap was done at another time.
Enjoy the NEC. RoadPro are good. they get busy, so try to be early to get more time with them but leave your credit card at home.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Marten]

You won't need Lithium for the starter battery. If the starter battery has not survived (it may be OK), swap it for another Lead-Acid one (about £100).
If your habitation battery has done little work, I'd keep going with that unless you are desperate to save weight.
I'm pretty sure that swapping the B! & B2 wires around will do the trick. Otherwise get a professional to do it for you - they should have a good 'heads up' from the information gained from this thread. Sounds like the solar controller is wired OK so, maybe the wire swap was done at another time.
Enjoy the NEC. RoadPro are good. they get busy, so try to be early to get more time with them but leave your credit card at home.

Ha Ha - yes, the NEC with a credit card can be lethal !! Sorry, I worded my reply badly - my idea to upgrade to Lithium was for the Leisure batteries only, but you make a fair point that my existing pair are probably worth sticking with at the moment. I hope anyone who is braving the show next week has a good time. Cheers. Marten.

 

[Pausim]

I think you need to find out where the 2 feeds have been swapped over and put it right at that point. The Compactline LB has an isolator switch and if you swap them back on the wrong side of this you may get in an even worse muddle. When you switch off the isolator switch which terminal on the the DS300 goes down and which stays live?

 

[Marten]

I think you need to find out where the 2 feeds have been swapped over and put it right at that point. The Compactline LB has an isolator switch and if you swap them back on the wrong side of this you may get in an even worse muddle. When you switch off the isolator switch which terminal on the the DS300 goes down and which stays live?

Hi Pausim.

When I switch off the isolator (turning the Red Key 6 in the underfloor compartment by the HAB door from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock ) I get the following:

B1 + Gnd shows no voltage on the DS3000.

B2 + Gnd shows 12.68v (as does the starter battery across the terminals. ) The HAB interior lights, water-pump & TV keep working.

Switching the isolator back on gives m 13.3v on B1+Gnd and the same on the Leisure Battery terminals.

Does this tell you where the swap has occurred.

Big thanks. Marten

 

[Marten]

I think you need to find out where the 2 feeds have been swapped over and put it right at that point. The Compactline LB has an isolator switch and if you swap them back on the wrong side of this you may get in an even worse muddle. When you switch off the isolator switch which terminal on the the DS300 goes down and which stays live?

Hi Pausim.

When I switch off the isolator (turning the Red Key 6 in the underfloor compartment by the HAB door from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock ) I get the following:

B1 + Gnd shows no voltage on the DS3000.

B2 + Gnd shows 12.68v (as does the starter battery across the terminals. ) The HAB interior lights, water-pump & TV keep working.

Switching the isolator back on gives m 13.3v on B1+Gnd and the same on the Leisure Battery terminals.

Does this tell you where the swap has occurred.

Big thanks. Marten

Sorry - 'Red Key 6' is a typo - it should just read 'Red Key'

 

[Pausim]

Hi Pausim.

When I switch off the isolator (turning the Red Key 6 in the underfloor compartment by the HAB door from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock ) I get the following:

B1 + Gnd shows no voltage on the DS3000.

B2 + Gnd shows 12.68v (as does the starter battery across the terminals. ) The HAB interior lights, water-pump & TV keep working.

Switching the isolator back on gives m 13.3v on B1+Gnd and the same on the Leisure Battery terminals.

Does this tell you where the swap has occurred.

Big thanks. Marten

I think this means the swap has happened after the isolator and probably means the blue wires got swapped at the DS300 terminals B1 and B2.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

If you decide to swap the blue wires at the DS300 I would disconnect the leisure battery and remove the fuse at the engine battery that feeds the link first.

 

[Ditcha]

On my Pioneer I have to hold the power button down for several seconds before it shuts down properly, a simple push just leaves it in a standby mode.

Even then I bet if you use your phone the head set is still broadcasting Bluetooth and discoverable only true shutdown is via the audio button on control panel.

 

[Marten]

If you decide to swap the blue wires at the DS300 I would disconnect the leisure battery and remove the fuse at the engine battery that feeds the link first.

Thanks so much. That's good that you think the mix-up is likely to be at the DS300. I agree that I should isolate both batteries before attempting it. I might park it just outside our local Fire-station while I do it, just in case : )

 

[Pausim]

Even then I bet if you use your phone the head set is still broadcasting Bluetooth and discoverable only true shutdown is via the audio button on control panel.

I will check next time I go out but meanwhile it is in storage. I have never had any problems with the engine battery being discharged. I only turn the audio button on when I want to use the tv at which point the radio wakes up too but I always then do the shut down. I am not convinced the audio button powers the radio from the engine battery, at handover I was told it switches a relay that transfers the power source to the leisure battery. Again I will test this when I can.

 

[Ditcha]

I will check next time I go out but meanwhile it is in storage. I have never had any problems with the engine battery being discharged. I only turn the audio button on when I want to use the tv at which point the radio wakes up too but I always then do the shut down. I am not convinced the audio button powers the radio from the engine battery, at handover I was told it switches a relay that transfers the power source to the leisure battery. Again I will test this when I can.

Yes that's my understanding re the audio button and like you I have never had a problem with the starter battery but when you enable the audio button then turn the head unit off you can still connect to the Bluetooth so as said better to turn the audio button off when not needed then you will find you can no longer connect to the Bluetooth so no power usage

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[howsitgoingdude]

Hi there it’s all great advice and yes we had same issue with our 2019 compactline 143
We’ve got solar , our electrician after a flat battery diverted solar to charge vehicle battery first then hab battery second also fitted a battery master from van bitz
Since then never had any issues solar maintain throughout just an ehu occasional top up in winter dark weather

 

[Marten]

To all of you.

I have swapped round the B1+B2 feeds to the DS300. It seems to all be working correctly now - although I guess time will tell whether there are any unforeseen consequences to having put it right.

Out of interest, I spoke to a motorhome technician beforehand and he thought that it was extremely unlikely that anyone retro-fitting AirCon or Solar would have had any reason to disconnect and reconnect B1+B2. Therefore it seems possible that it may have left the Carthago factory incorrectly wired. If both batteries are active, both read over 12v and everything is 'working' you might not notice until you spent a night off-grid - and I suppose it is possible that the previous owner always used EHU.

He also said that he had come across one instance of a Carthago leaving the factory with the leisure batteries incorrectly wired so potentially possible that mine was incorrect.

Particularly big thanks to 'Pausim' and 'Two'. Between you, you have saved me a load of bother and money. But also, thankyou to everyone who chipped in. I very much appreciate all the help.

Happy MH'ing this summer.

Marten

 

[GeoffnDee]

Good to hear that all is ok now , but ,Have you found how the solar is connected to the leisure and starter batteries and are these connections made correctly to both batteries ?