Carthago Electrical Mystery

[Marten]

Hi all. I wonder if anyone can shed light on an electrical mystery. My 2018 Carthago Compactline (Ducato Chassis) has developed an issue that is baffling me.

The Starter Battery has begun going flat without EHU after about three days unoccupied. I presume it is shot and a multimeter across the terminals confirms this with the Starter Battery at just over 11v and the Leisure Battery at approx 14v

But here's the thing.... the control panel in the van shows the Starter battery as full and the Leisure battery as nearly dead. Definitely. Checked and re-checked.

To back up this seemingly backwards reading.....without EHU, and with the habitation lights and TV on, the Starter Battery drains even faster (just a few hours.) Meanwhile the Leisure Battery remains on approx 14v. My understanding is that this shouldn't be possible.

I have a solar panel and a split charger controller on it, but that on it's own evidently isn't proving enough to keep the Starter battery topped up enough without EHU.

I suspect I will have to take it to a specialist and I'm sure they will explain / fix it, but I would like to be able to go with a bit more knowledge and make sure that if there is a bigger issue, they sort it out, rather than just supply a new Starter Battery.

Has anyone had a similar experience ?

Many thanks.

Marten.

 

[rb62]

Well known problem with Carthagos,the head unit (radio/sound system) draws it's power from the vehicle battery and is very power hungry,always make sure you turn the entertainment button on the control panel off at night or it will flatten your battery! but it sounds like yours is shot

 

[Pausim]

Check the voltages at the CBE DS300 distribution unit to see if the voltages at the batteries are appearing on the correct terminals. B1 should be the engine battery voltage and B2 should be the leisure battery voltage. Perhaps they have got reversed?

 

[AdrianChen]

Not needed so deleted

 

[Marten]

Well known problem with Carthagos,the head unit (radio/sound system draws it's power from the vehicle battery and is very power hungry,always make sure you turn the entertainment button on the control panel off at night or it will flatten your battery! but it sounds like yours is shot

View attachment 861748

Thanks Richard. I did suspect that the first time it happened might have been something like the head unit - the Pioneer is one of those ones where it is easy to think it's off, but it's actually in standby. And as you say, the battery is evidently done-for now.

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[f6c]

I had a isolation rocker switch fitted so as to turn off the media centre. Problem solved.

 

[Marten]

Check the voltages at the CBE DS300 distribution unit to see if the voltages at the batteries are appearing on the correct terminals. B1 should be the engine battery voltage and B2 should be the leisure battery voltage. Perhaps they have got reversed?

Thanks Pausim. You might be my saviour !! I just checked and it's exactly as you suggested.

Using my Multimeter..

B1+GND reads 13.93v Leisure Battery Terminals read 13.96v

B2+GND reads 13.03v Engine Battery reads 13.02v

Could I ask the following questions - I would be so grateful.

Given that it appears that things have got reversed.

1. Does this mean that the Habitation electrics are running off the Engine battery (which would explain the quick Engine battery drain after using Hab lights/TV etc.)

2. What can be done about it - is it a simple swap over of something - or a garage job.

3. What sort of thing might have led to this mistake - factory / retro solar installation etc ? Hard to answer I know.

4. I had a HAB check last summer inc. electrics test - should they have picked up on this ?

THANK YOU SO MUCH - I have got further in the last hour than the last two months !!!!

Marten

 

[dunnah01]

Check the connections haven't been reversed at the battery separator if fitted. It's a CBE 100 or 150 box and looks like one of these

 

[Marten]

Check the connections haven't been reversed at the battery separator if fitted. It's a CBE 100 or 150 box and looks like one of these

View attachment 861763

Thanks Dunnah01 - I will take a look. Appreciate the advice. Marten

 

[GeoffnDee]

If you have had solar fitted they may have used the battery connections at the DS300 (or battery separator, if fitted) for the solar controller connections and somehow got the B1 and B2 reversed on refitting.

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[Marten]

If you have had solar fitted they may have used the battery connections at the DS300 (or battery separator, if fitted) for the solar controller connections and somehow got the B1 and B2 reversed on refitting.

Thanks Geoff. Quite a possibility I think. The Solar was retro fitted, but before I bought it, so I guess I'll never know. Cheers. Marten

 

[Pausim]

I think getting the B1 and B2 wires the wrong way round on the DS300 is the most likely explanation. I haven’t seen a separate battery separator in my Compactline, I think the DS300 does this.

 

[Pausim]

On my Compactline the B1 wire is a thick blue one but from the picture I have I can’t see the colour on the wire on the B2 terminal.

 

[Marten]

On my Compactline the B1 wire is a thick blue one but from the picture I have I can’t see the colour on the wire on the B2 terminal.

I also have a thick blue wire going to B1, and thinner Red and Blue wires to B2. This might indicate that if there is a mix-up- it's somewhere further back - perhaps a battery separator - as Dunnah01 suggested. I'll have a good look in the light tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Lazyboy]

As rb62 said. Get system rewired to leisure batteries and have a rocker switch in the glove box to turn it off. There is definitely a very heavy draw if it is not completely isolated. Good luck.It sounds as though you are being steered down the correct path now.

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[Marten]

As rb62 said. Get system rewired to leisure batteries and have a rocker switch in the glove box to turn it off. There is definitely a very heavy draw if it is not completely isolated. Good luck.It sounds as though you are being steered down the correct path now.

Fingers Crossed !! Thanks for the advice.

 

[dunnah01]

I also have a thick blue wire going to B1, and thinner Red and Blue wires to B2. This might indicate that if there is a mix-up- it's somewhere further back - perhaps a battery separator - as Dunnah01 suggested. I'll have a good look in the light tomorrow. Thanks.

Mine was really well hidden behind the passenger door step trim so if you have one it may take some finding ..

 

[Marten]

Mine was really well hidden behind the passenger door step trim so if you have one it may take some finding ..

View attachment 861840

Ah well, I know what my Sunday looks like : )

 

[GeoffnDee]

Marten ,When you find the cause of the mix up It would also be worth checking that the duel solar controller is wired correctly to both the starter and leisure batteries.
If you do not already have it ,there is a manual that could be useful for the DS 300 CBE unit on page 3 of the Manuals for Motorhome Stuff section of Resources ( Found at the bottom of this page)

 

[Pausim]

I also have a thick blue wire going to B1, and thinner Red and Blue wires to B2. This might indicate that if there is a mix-up- it's somewhere further back - perhaps a battery separator - as Dunnah01 suggested. I'll have a good look in the light tomorrow. Thanks.

I believe there are some wiring connections below the shelf next to the drivers seat (RHD) but I have not looked. Someone said there is a panel at the bottom of the locker.

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[Marten]

Marten ,When you find the cause of the mix up It would also be worth checking that the duel solar controller is wired correctly to both the starter and leisure batteries.
If you do not already have it ,there is a manual that could be useful for the DS 300 CBE unit on page 3 of the Manuals for Motorhome Stuff section of Resources ( Found at the bottom of this page)

Thank Geoff - that's a good shout. I had also wondered whether this might need investigating. My knowledge of electrics is fairly elementary, so I may take it to a specialist to give it the once over - seeing as I definitely need to get a new Starter Battery fitted. (I've fitted car batteries before but my M/H one looks like a small power station !! However the advice and tips I've been given here give me a real head start - even if it just helps explain the issue to them and point them towards the problem. A really big thanks to everyone who has chipped in. Marten.

 

[Marten]

I believe there are some wiring connections below the shelf next to the drivers seat (RHD) but I have not looked. Someone said there is a panel at the bottom of the locker.

Thanks Pausim. My Carthago manual also indicates that there is something there on some models so I will take a look tomorrow. Cheers.
Marten

 

[two]

The attached photos may be some help.
1 wiring diagramme for the CBE unit (I think yours is in the garage)
2 what it looks like with the cover off (loads of wires)
3&4 wires to the battery terminals

It would seem that someone has swapped over the cables between B1 and B2 - but let's be certain, first.
I'd test before doing anything by isolating the hab battery. There should be a red isolation switch for this not far from where the habitation battery is located (probably under the floor in the living area). Switch that off. If your display shows nothing (whilst also disconnected from EHU), it's probably wired correctly because no power is getting to it. However, if it is still alive and shows the habitation battery as having power but the cab/starter battery not, it would appear that the wires to B1 & B2 have been swapped. The B2 terminal is likely to have more than one wire connected to it, to feed other components, whereas the B1 (starter battery) may only have the one from that battery. If it seems that the wires are the wrong way round, you can double check with the habitation battery isolated: The B1 to GND terminals will show nothing (if the wires are swapped) but the B2 to GND will show whatever the starter battery can provide (12+V).
I do hope that makes sense!
I had to remove several connectors to get to the B1 & B2 terminals, so you will probably need to as well. The connectors are all different and cannot be reconnected the wrong way. Even so, it will provide confidence if you take a picture of yours before removing anything. No two motorhomes are the same!
The feeds from the batteries will be thick wires (maybe both blue) and should be easy to identify.
Cover the GND terminal with tape, to avoid any possibility of shorting the starter battery (I'd isolate it first, if possible, by removing it's fuse and checking that there's no voltage present). Leave the habitation battery isolated. Switch the solar off or cover it with a blanket.
Now 'just' (I hate it when someone uses that word - it may not be as easy as it sounds) swap the two thick wires round.
If you didn't isolate the starter (find and remove the fuse), disconnect the thick wire from B2 last and carefully connect it straight away to B1.
Say a prayer, if you're that way inclined (it is Sunday, after all).
Replace the starter battery fuse (I'd check the voltage at B1, after) if you had removed one. Switch the isolator for the habitation bank on (check that things work - you may need to switch the CBE panel on again). Switch on Solar (or remove the blanket) and hope that your prayers have been answered.

I've tried to be helpful but, as just a 'fellow motorhomer', take no responsibility for any errors above or consequences of mis-interpretation.
Best of luck!

 

[The POPs]

Hi all. I wonder if anyone can shed light on an electrical mystery. My 2018 Carthago Compactline (Ducato Chassis) has developed an issue that is baffling me.

The Starter Battery has begun going flat without EHU after about three days unoccupied. I presume it is shot and a multimeter across the terminals confirms this with the Starter Battery at just over 11v and the Leisure Battery at approx 14v

But here's the thing.... the control panel in the van shows the Starter battery as full and the Leisure battery as nearly dead. Definitely. Checked and re-checked.

To back up this seemingly backwards reading.....without EHU, and with the habitation lights and TV on, the Starter Battery drains even faster (just a few hours.) Meanwhile the Leisure Battery remains on approx 14v. My understanding is that this shouldn't be possible.

I have a solar panel and a split charger controller on it, but that on it's own evidently isn't proving enough to keep the Starter battery topped up enough without EHU.

I suspect I will have to take it to a specialist and I'm sure they will explain / fix it, but I would like to be able to go with a bit more knowledge and make sure that if there is a bigger issue, they sort it out, rather than just supply a new Starter Battery.

Has anyone had a similar experience ?

Many thanks.

Marten.

We have a Carthago C-Tourer but 4.2 ton on a Ducato. We also now have three solar panels on top but originally only one.
When we first came to Portugal Algarve in 2020 in bright hot sunshine, we got Covid Lock down. Off electrics but then on solar panel.
We had full electric in the living part and with an inverter and all good, but when tried to start the engine and starter battery totally flat and no start.
Long story short, but we had a trickle charge put in, and as normal power from our solar panels to keep the caravan batteries charging and also engine battery “trickle” charged.
We live in our Carthago without electrics (EHU) and only GPL (LPG) for cooking and occasional heating and hot water.
Ducato starts every time.
Hope this helps.

 

[Marten]

The attached photos may be some help.
1 wiring diagramme for the CBE unit (I think yours is in the garage)
2 what it looks like with the cover off (loads of wires)
3&4 wires to the battery terminals

It would seem that someone has swapped over the cables between B1 and B2 - but let's be certain, first.
I'd test before doing anything by isolating the hab battery. There should be a red isolation switch for this not far from where the habitation battery is located (probably under the floor in the living area). Switch that off. If your display shows nothing (whilst also disconnected from EHU), it's probably wired correctly because no power is getting to it. However, if it is still alive and shows the habitation battery as having power but the cab/starter battery not, it would appear that the wires to B1 & B2 have been swapped. The B2 terminal is likely to have more than one wire connected to it, to feed other components, whereas the B1 (starter battery) may only have the one from that battery. If it seems that the wires are the wrong way round, you can double check with the habitation battery isolated: The B1 to GND terminals will show nothing (if the wires are swapped) but the B2 to GND will show whatever the starter battery can provide (12+V).
I do hope that makes sense!
I had to remove several connectors to get to the B1 & B2 terminals, so you will probably need to as well. The connectors are all different and cannot be reconnected the wrong way. Even so, it will provide confidence if you take a picture of yours before removing anything. No two motorhomes are the same!
The feeds from the batteries will be thick wires (maybe both blue) and should be easy to identify.
Cover the GND terminal with tape, to avoid any possibility of shorting the starter battery (I'd isolate it first, if possible, by removing it's fuse and checking that there's no voltage present). Leave the habitation battery isolated. Switch the solar off or cover it with a blanket.
Now 'just' (I hate it when someone uses that word - it may not be as easy as it sounds) swap the two thick wires round.
If you didn't isolate the starter (find and remove the fuse), disconnect the thick wire from B2 last and carefully connect it straight away to B1.
Say a prayer, if you're that way inclined (it is Sunday, after all).
Replace the starter battery fuse (I'd check the voltage at B1, after) if you had removed one. Switch the isolator for the habitation bank on (check that things work - you may need to switch the CBE panel on again). Switch on Solar (or remove the blanket) and hope that your prayers have been answered.

I've tried to be helpful but, as just a 'fellow motorhomer', take no responsibility for any errors above or consequences of mis-interpretation.
Best of luck!



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View attachment 862087

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View attachment 862089

Hi Two. Sorry for my slow reply - family round for lunch : ). Thanks so much for taking the time to provide such comprehensive information and photos - it's really very kind of you. I have a bit more info myself. This morning, without being on EHU, I switched on all the HAB lights and TV. I then disconnected the negative terminal of the Starter battery and everything went off (and 60s later I had the tracker company on the phone to me). Coupled with my voltage readings yesterday at the CBE DS 3000 this confirms that someone has swapped B1+B2 at some stage (presumably the company that fitted the Solar Panel for the last owner - as I can'y imagine that Carthago allowed it to leave th factory like this.) My Leisure battery must be thinking that this Motorhome gig is a bit of alright !!! Following your advice I have also just switched off the Red battery master near the Leisure battery and my Control Panel showed 8/8 lights for the Leisure Battery and 1/8 for the Starter Battery.

B1 has a single, fat blue cable going to it and no others. B2 Terminal has a fat blue cable going to it, a thinner, darker blue cable and a couple of thinner, red wires. In other words, it's appears to be wired exactly as in your photo. This tells me that I should only need to swap the fat blue cables and leave everything else on B2 where it is.

I will let you know how I get on, but in the meantime, thanks again for going to so much trouble to help.

Kindest wishes. Marten.

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[Marten]

We have a Carthago C-Tourer but 4.2 ton on a Ducato. We also now have three solar panels on top but originally only one.
When we first came to Portugal Algarve in 2020 in bright hot sunshine, we got Covid Lock down. Off electrics but then on solar panel.
We had full electric in the living part and with an inverter and all good, but when tried to start the engine and starter battery totally flat and no start.
Long story short, but we had a trickle charge put in, and as normal power from our solar panels to keep the caravan batteries charging and also engine battery “trickle” charged.
We live in our Carthago without electrics (EHU) and only GPL (LPG) for cooking and occasional heating and hot water.
Ducato starts every time.
Hope this helps.

Thanks so much. Yes this seems like a good idea to counter parasitic drain over a few days. Once I have got my system sorted I will investigate it. Cheers. Marten

 

[colyboy]

This may not be of use to you, a few years ago with then our brand Carthago Malibou. Our van battery kept going flat. After a lot of time wasted on trying to find the fault, we found by chance the following problem.

It seems that Carthago wire their radio direct to the van battery. As we listen to the radio quite a lot it seems that this was causing the problem. We then had our radio rewired to our leisure batteries problem solved!! Contacted Carthago in Germany and reply had is “We always do it that way”

Colyboy

 

[dunnah01]

The attached photos may be some help.
1 wiring diagramme for the CBE unit (I think yours is in the garage)
2 what it looks like with the cover off (loads of wires)
3&4 wires to the battery terminals

It would seem that someone has swapped over the cables between B1 and B2 - but let's be certain, first.
I'd test before doing anything by isolating the hab battery. There should be a red isolation switch for this not far from where the habitation battery is located (probably under the floor in the living area). Switch that off. If your display shows nothing (whilst also disconnected from EHU), it's probably wired correctly because no power is getting to it. However, if it is still alive and shows the habitation battery as having power but the cab/starter battery not, it would appear that the wires to B1 & B2 have been swapped. The B2 terminal is likely to have more than one wire connected to it, to feed other components, whereas the B1 (starter battery) may only have the one from that battery. If it seems that the wires are the wrong way round, you can double check with the habitation battery isolated: The B1 to GND terminals will show nothing (if the wires are swapped) but the B2 to GND will show whatever the starter battery can provide (12+V).
I do hope that makes sense!
I had to remove several connectors to get to the B1 & B2 terminals, so you will probably need to as well. The connectors are all different and cannot be reconnected the wrong way. Even so, it will provide confidence if you take a picture of yours before removing anything. No two motorhomes are the same!
The feeds from the batteries will be thick wires (maybe both blue) and should be easy to identify.
Cover the GND terminal with tape, to avoid any possibility of shorting the starter battery (I'd isolate it first, if possible, by removing it's fuse and checking that there's no voltage present). Leave the habitation battery isolated. Switch the solar off or cover it with a blanket.
Now 'just' (I hate it when someone uses that word - it may not be as easy as it sounds) swap the two thick wires round.
If you didn't isolate the starter (find and remove the fuse), disconnect the thick wire from B2 last and carefully connect it straight away to B1.
Say a prayer, if you're that way inclined (it is Sunday, after all).
Replace the starter battery fuse (I'd check the voltage at B1, after) if you had removed one. Switch the isolator for the habitation bank on (check that things work - you may need to switch the CBE panel on again). Switch on Solar (or remove the blanket) and hope that your prayers have been answered.

I've tried to be helpful but, as just a 'fellow motorhomer', take no responsibility for any errors above or consequences of mis-interpretation.
Best of luck!



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View attachment 862089

That control box has the built in split charge relay / battery separator (2 relays and diode bottom right) so if OPs is the same then there won't be a separate SB100/150 unit

 

[MobyDick57]

Hello We have a Carthago compact and found the starter battery going flat, even though it is being charged indirectly via B2B solar. So I bought a 120w collapsible portable solar panel. Placed it on our internal dash and connected it directly (via its regulator) to the starter battery. Problem solved for about £200 Now leave radio on, when on walk about as a break-in deterrent

 

[dunnah01]

Ah well, I know what my Sunday looks like : )

If your main board has the two relays and diode similar to these: then you won't have a separate battery separator so could save yourself a lot of hunting about - but it won't solve your problem

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