Carthago Compactline 3.5tonne suspension / self-levelling advice please

[avmac]

Hi, So we're on a superb trip around the Hebrides. The roads and recent winds are confirming earlier thoughts about upgrading our suspension and adding levelling to our Compactline 138. The ride is harsh to teeth-rattling at times and is wobbly when parked in winds or during nighttime visits.

We've seen various recommendations for VB semi/full air. We're rated at 3.5 tonne and don't wish to go higher for C1 reasons.

We're lucky that SAP at Doncaster is not far from us so we'll make contact on our return.

Meanwhile, could any Carthago owners comment on why they went for spring upgrade only, semi vs full air and pros / cons of each? I thought I'd read somewhere that full air was only for over 3.5t vehicles.

The E&P self-levelling too would be a no-brainer if not for the eye-watering cost. Does it really add sufficient benefit for the cost?

For info, our Carthago is a 2016, bought second-hand by us at the start of 2022.

Many thanks .

 

[wiljoy]

Before adding self leveling check your weights. If you are at 3500kgs it could compromise your carrying capacity. I have a 149 but it's 4250kgs so plenty of payload. I've never really had the need to upgrade my suspension on this van or any of my previous 12.
It's all down to choice but for the cost it's a big decision.

 

[Vansflyer]

Following our run around the NC500 last year it confirmed my thoughts on changing the front springs! Mick swopped them for better ones on our return and the ride is considerably improved... by about 200%. We already had the VB semi air on the rear and now don't feel the need for any more suspension upgrades. The OEM front springs are woeful and give about 10mm or travel before the bump stops.. C-Tourer 149LE FYI.

 

[cyberyacht]

I've got a 2016 138 Compactline as well. We have cupboards in lieu of the drop down bed which is a slightly lighter option. Even with that, we run pretty close to 3500Kg with full water & fuel in touring trim. Check your payload before adding any heavy stuff. E&P self-levelling apart from the cost will add almost 50Kg. Too indulgent for me.

 

[Phill D]

If you have CP tyres changing those will make a huge difference to drive comfort.
Self levelling is likely to put your payload at risk.

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[Lenny HB]

Interesting the comments about the hard ride as we have a CompactLine 141 on order which has the same wheelbase as the 138. We have ordered on the 4250kg chassis can't handle having to worry about how we load it.

Had full air fitted to the current Hymer as it had a rock hard ride. Will probably get full air on the 141 as the maxi chassis is a lot harder ride than the light chassis.

I think full air adds about 50kg as do Jack's so 100kg for both.

 

[Two on Tour]

I've got a 2016 138 Compactline as well. We have cupboards in lieu of the drop down bed which is a slightly lighter option. Even with that, we run pretty close to 3500Kg with full water & fuel in touring trim. Check your payload before adding any heavy stuff. E&P self-levelling apart from the cost will add almost 50Kg. Too indulgent for me.

You can take 14Kg off of the 50Kg, as you will no longer need to carry the OE jack at 8Kg and the plastic leveling ramps at 6Kg.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I’m sure full air would be the best bet for a better ride but very costly. Hydraulic levellers are very much worth the extra cost but beware of weight, E&P was 55-70Kg when I ‘researched’ it 4/5 years ago, one of the reasons we chose the HPC system at 45-50Kg.
Adding rear semi air will not help at all regarding ride if your springs are already harsh, we added semi air to our Alko rear end that was under sprung at it transformed it.
The most improvement we had for ride was changing to C rated tyres of one size up, ditching the CP tyres. This allowed lower tyre pressures which made a noticeable improvement.

 

[Russell's Dad]

When I up-plated my 138 (2021 with 9 speed auto) Van Weight Engineering were able to confirm that the front shocks are Fiat's heavy duty version. Maybe because of the auto box?
I can't complain about the handling of my 138. Yes it can be a bit crashy on bumpy roads and it can catch the wind a bit, but it's a brick on wheels. My previous PVC on a maxi-chassis wasn't really any better.
Maybe you could try the cheaper option first and get the front shocks changed.

Edit. Check your tyre pressures aren't too high. Makes a big difference if you can drop the pressures a bit.

 

[avmac]

Before adding self leveling check your weights. If you are at 3500kgs it could compromise your carrying capacity. I have a 149 but it's 4250kgs so plenty of payload. I've never really had the need to upgrade my suspension on this van or any of my previous 12.
It's all down to choice but for the cost it's a big decision.

Thanks Wiljoy. Yes we will check our weights again before making any decisions. Thankfully we're both well under the 75kg driver allowance and there's only the 2 of us in the mh. Last time at weighbridge fully loaded we still had over 200kg payload spare, but it is a concern.

Interesting that you haven't had any suspension issues with your vans. Maybe we're unlucky or it's just the narrow, rough roads that we seek out to access remote spots. Our 138 does a lot of 'banging' on such roads.

I think a spring upgrade will be the minimum we'll do.

Following our run around the NC500 last year it confirmed my thoughts on changing the front springs! Mick swopped them for better ones on our return and the ride is considerably improved... by about 200%. We already had the VB semi air on the rear and now don't feel the need for any more suspension upgrades. The OEM front springs are woeful and give about 10mm or travel before the bump stops.. C-Tourer 149LE FYI.

Hi Vansflyer,
Thanks for the positive recommendation for uprated front springs. We'll see what Mick has to advise on semi-air for rear and weight impact.

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[avmac]

I've got a 2016 138 Compactline as well. We have cupboards in lieu of the drop down bed which is a slightly lighter option. Even with that, we run pretty close to 3500Kg with full water & fuel in touring trim. Check your payload before adding any heavy stuff. E&P self-levelling apart from the cost will add almost 50Kg. Too indulgent for me.

Thanks cyberyacht. It's good to hear from someone with the same model/year. Yes we'll be double-checking at the weighbridge with every conceivable bit of cycling/walking kit loaded before we commit to any heavy installs. That's before we agonise about cost...

 

[avmac]

I’m sure full air would be the best bet for a better ride but very costly. Hydraulic levellers are very much worth the extra cost but beware of weight, E&P was 55-70Kg when I ‘researched’ it 4/5 years ago, one of the reasons we chose the HPC system at 45-50Kg.
Adding rear semi air will not help at all regarding ride if your springs are already harsh, we added semi air to our Alko rear end that was under sprung at it transformed it.
The most improvement we had for ride was changing to C rated tyres of one size up, ditching the CP tyres. This allowed lower tyre pressures which made a noticeable improvement.

Thanks Hetties Crew. That's good to know about the positive impact of a tyre choice change in ride quality. We're planning to put on M&S 3P but yet to finalise choice. The ones we inherited would not have been our first choice.
We'd been a bit concerned about not having CP tyres, especially Michelin Argilis cross climates due to reports of tyre-wall cracking. Will probably go with Conti VanContacts - can't remember precise model off-hand.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Thanks Hetties Crew. That's good to know about the positive impact of a tyre choice change in ride quality. We're planning to put on M&S 3P but yet to finalise choice. The ones we inherited would not have been our first choice.
We'd been a bit concerned about not having CP tyres, especially Michelin Argilis cross climates due to reports of tyre-wall cracking. Will probably go with Conti VanContacts - can't remember precise model off-hand.

https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/2227928/c555b253939be0c9946999d02db4624d/vancontact-4season-pfb-data.pdf

We chose these and they’ve proved to be very good over the last 4/5 years, quiet, good on wet grass etc and no signs of cracking, going for 225/70 15 over the standard 215/70 15. It allowed a significant reduction in tyre pressures that greatly improved the ride.

 

[Minxy]

We have a 2019 Carthago C-Compactline i-138 on the light chassis, it was uprated to 3850kg and we had SAP's semi-air put on the rear. We've had coachbuilt body MHs before without semi-air and when we had it put on noticed the difference immediately, much nicer to drive, less swaying/wind wobble when trucks etc pass/we pass them, better on cornering as not so wallowy, wouldn't have a coachbuilt body MH without it - we were even going to put it on our last PVC (Globecar Campscout) as that was 6.36m and could be a bit wobbly at times but changed for the 138 before we did so.

We could've tried to manage at 3500kg but it was too close for comfort for us and didn't want the aggro of having to be concerned about if we were 'legal' or not and what we could realistically take with us, and adding the semi-air increased the rear axle capacity from 2000kg to 2240kg which is where we needed it.

Thanks Wiljoy. Yes we will check our weights again before making any decisions. Thankfully we're both well under the 75kg driver allowance and there's only the 2 of us in the mh. Last time at weighbridge fully loaded we still had over 200kg payload spare, but it is a concern.

Thanks cyberyacht. It's good to hear from someone with the same model/year. Yes we'll be double-checking at the weighbridge with every conceivable bit of cycling/walking kit loaded before we commit to any heavy installs. That's before we agonise about cost...

How much was left on the rear axle last time? That's where the overloading issue is normally found so having 200kg spare doesn't mean your rear axle is legal unfortunately, this is the situation we were in, we could've just had the MH uprated to 3850kg with no semi-air but it wouldn't have given us the extra capacity where we needed it on the rear axle, the only thing therefore we'd have benefitted from was reduced road tax (the dealer paid for the uprating as it was their error not getting it plated at 3850kg as stated on the purchase contract).

 

[cyberyacht]

Notwithstanding being close to my limit, uprating would require reapplying for my C1 quite apart from the prohibitions encountered on the road for vehicles over 3500Kg, so I've stuck with the current plating.

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[avmac]

We have a 2019 Carthago C-Compactline i-138 on the light chassis, it was uprated to 3850kg and we had SAP's semi-air put on the rear. We've had coachbuilt body MHs before without semi-air and when we had it put on noticed the difference immediately, much nicer to drive, less swaying/wind wobble when trucks etc pass/we pass them, better on cornering as not so wallowy, wouldn't have a coachbuilt body MH without it - we were even going to put it on our last PVC (Globecar Campscout) as that was 6.36m and could be a bit wobbly at times but changed for the 138 before we did so.

We could've tried to manage at 3500kg but it was too close for comfort for us and didn't want the aggro of having to be concerned about if we were 'legal' or not and what we could realistically take with us, and adding the semi-air increased the rear axle capacity from 2000kg to 2240kg which is where we needed it.



How much was left on the rear axle last time? That's where the overloading issue is normally found so having 200kg spare doesn't mean your rear axle is legal unfortunately, this is the situation we were in, we could've just had the MH uprated to 3850kg with no semi-air but it wouldn't have given us the extra capacity where we needed it on the rear axle, the only thing therefore we'd have benefitted from was reduced road tax (the dealer paid for the uprating as it was their error not getting it plated at 3850kg as stated on the purchase contract).

Hi Minxie,
Sorry for the delayed response. We've had limited t'internet on Barra. Thank you for your detailed response. I believe that we were evenly balanced per axle and that was with a fully loaded garage. We'll be checking again though before we commit to any work. It's helpful to hear of the effectiveness of the semi air on the rear

 

[Abgs]

Rather than start a new thread I though I'd add this question here as it seems relevant.

I may be following Russell's Dad example of trading a pop-top PVC for a nearly new, compact A class ….

If I was to purchase a 22 Plate 138 Compactline on the light chassis plated at 3500kg, what’s the highest weight I can plate-to as a paperwork exercise before needing any suspension mods?

If I were to make mods, what would they be and how high could I go ? The van in question already has a few tasty, but weighty options fitted including an Air Con unit and an Alko self levelling system fitted so I reckon it would be tight to run at 3500kg,

 

[Minxy]

If I was to purchase a 22 Plate 138 Compactline on the light chassis plated at 3500kg, what’s the highest weight I can plate-to as a paperwork exercise before needing any suspension mods?

3850kg but you will still be restricted to 1850kg front and 2000kg rear. To get more you need to have as a minimum semi-air on the rear which will increase the axle capacity to 2240kg (still 3850kg overall) but it'll cost £2k+. This is what we did with our 2019 138.

 

[Abgs]

3850kg but you will still be restricted to 1850kg front and 2000kg rear. To get more you need to have as a minimum semi-air on the rear which will increase the axle capacity to 2240kg (still 3850kg overall) but it'll cost £2k+. This is what we did with our 2019 138.

Perfect … that’s what I needed to know. I’ve asked SAP to quote for the Semi Air.

 

[Russell's Dad]

Rather than start a new thread I though I'd add this question here as it seems relevant.

I may be following Russell's Dad example of trading a pop-top PVC for a nearly new, compact A class ….

If I was to purchase a 22 Plate 138 Compactline on the light chassis plated at 3500kg, what’s the highest weight I can plate-to as a paperwork exercise before needing any suspension mods?

If I were to make mods, what would they be and how high could I go ? The van in question already has a few tasty, but weighty options fitted including an Air Con unit and an Alko self levelling system fitted so I reckon it would be tight to run at 3500kg,

My i138 got to 3960 ( 1960kg front 2000kg rear) without mods. VWE did my uprate.
As Minxy says though, the rear is where the weight issues lie, especially if you put in 150kg of fresh water!! I've got hab aircon too. The compressor is too noisy to sleep with it on, but handily the fan-only option directs a gentle airflow right on to the rear bed!!!
As an aside, the i138 is my "keeper". It has had a few niggles but it is a great van. I especially love the 9 speed auto box.

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[Abgs]

All good to know -

Should be with us in 2 weeks. Drive parking space is our issue. We didn’t want to go back to storage so we looked for the biggest amount of space and comfort in the smallest package.

The 138 i is only 10cm longer than my Hymer PVC if you take the folded bike into consideration- or 20cm shorter with the rack open. It’s maybe 10cm wider than the Sprinter and about the same height so I don’t think it’s going to be a massive difference in visual impact for the neighbours.

 

[Minxy]

Perfect … that’s what I needed to know. I’ve asked SAP to quote for the Semi Air.

Don't forget to ask for a funster discount!

 

[ED O'DARAC]

We had a Compact line I144QB (3500kg) and the previous owner had specified uprated front springs (they said Goldschmidt). The ride was superbly smooth and refined, even on rough, Welsh roads. It didn't have any tweaks to the rear springs.
It was a revelation.

 

[These Big Adventures]

The ride on our 2022 Ducato is much improved after we had heavy duty springs added as well has Koni special active shocks.

 

[Lenny HB]

The compressor is too noisy to sleep with it on, but handily the fan-only option directs a gentle airflow right on to the rear bed!!!

You could replace the aircon unit with a Maxxfan that would save a fair bit of weight and they work well.

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[Manxcat]

We have on order a Compactline I 138. No dropdown bed, no awning and lithium battery. Not really sure but I think that helps reduce weight.

We have decided to get SAP to put full air and self levelling. The cost is somewhat eye watering but this is likely to be our last van. We know the Carthago is right for us. If payload is an issue should be no problem upping it although I would prefer to stay within the 3,500kg. Of course the government is considering changing the rules anyway...

 

[Abgs]

You could replace the aircon unit with a Maxxfan that would save a fair bit of weight and they work well.

I have considered that as an option as we don't tend to use sites or locations with EHU's as a rule.

 

[Russell's Dad]

I have considered that as an option as we don't tend to use sites or locations with EHU's as a rule.

Us neither, but on hitting a heatwave in France last year the aircon was a godsend for cooling down during the day and just before bedtime. Handily we found some of the few remaining free Aires with free electricity.

 

[cyberyacht]

I've got the non drop-down bed option. Two 120AH lithium batteries plus the wind-out awning. I can just run under 3500KG with two E bikes and full tanks. The full air and self levelling should roughly equal the awning so you will be fairly close to 3500Kg, I suspect.

 

[Lenny HB]

The full air and self levelling should roughly equal the awning

Full air & leveling approx 50kg each so total of 100kg.
4m awning 35kg, 4.5m 45kg.