Can I add seatbelts to the side-facing seats on a 2005 Motorhome? Is that legal? Insurable?

[DamienDevaney]

My mother-in-law has offered to give us her old motorhome. The trouble is we have 3 kids and the motorhome only has 3 seat-belted front facing seats.

There is a side facing bench-style seat, so I thought if we could somehow fit 2 seatbelts to it we've got the 5 seats we need for our family.

I've done some reading and side-facing seats are not allowed in new vehicles, but are permitted in old vehicles. I suspect that retro-fitting seat belts to side seats is probably not legal, and even if it is, could cause us difficulty getting insured.

What do you experts think?

 

[Pausim]

I don’t think seat belts on side facing seats would be safe. In a crash the occupants would be thrown sideways. Belts are designed for forward restraint, sideways they might cause bad injuries not save lives. Probably not legal either.

 

[meanders]

I don't know the legal position, but sideways lap belts are better than lap and diagonal that can cause severe neck and facial injuries in a crash as the body is moving across the belt at speed.

One funster many many years ago who showed me their van had removed the side seat and replaced it with two front seats from a scrap yard complete with swivels and the seat belt mountings built in. I can't remember his name and it was at least 15 years ago. He was an engineer and proudly told me how they were fitted through the floor to the chassis member.

 

[pappajohn]

Legalities say no.
Side facing seats aren't safe or suitable for belts, either 3 or 4 point belts.
They would cause severe damage to hips and spine in a head-on crash as the body is thrown sideways.
Even if they were legal they would need attaching to the vans chassis or a substantial steel framework attached to the chassis.

 

[AJM2]

Whether it’s legal or not I wouldn’t dream of it. Think of the lateral forces on someone sitting sideways in a crash

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[meanders]

Depending on the layout, you may be able to fit another front facing bench seat and properly fitted belts. Our current van they are right at the back.

 

[Phill D]

Hi Damien and welcome.

I think your biggest problem is insurance; the van will be designated for X passengers and I doubt the insurance would cover more than that number. In addition it could void your cover on an accident if you had more than the designated number of passengers.

Hope you can sort something out.

 

[herald_400rl]

I'd rather not wear one than wear a side facing lap belt.
I'll take the head injury and a quick death vs having everyone of my internal organs rupture as I die in agony.

 

[Andy Norfolk]

On our Adria Coral slt we had a factory fitted side facing seat with seat belt . I always assumed it was therefore legal. It never came up in an MOT as an issue.

 

[herald_400rl]

On our Adria Coral slt we had a factory fitted side facing seat with seat belt . I always assumed it was therefore legal. It never came up in an MOT as an issue.

Ours is of an age where they're not required and it actually lists 4 passengers on the brochure despite 2 belts.
There's some brackets to fit belts but they seem a bit like a token offering.

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[dryad]

My mother-in-law has offered to give us her old motorhome. The trouble is we have 3 kids and the motorhome only has 3 seat-belted front facing seats.

There is a side facing bench-style seat, so I thought if we could somehow fit 2 seatbelts to it we've got the 5 seats we need for our family.

I've done some reading and side-facing seats are not allowed in new vehicles, but are permitted in old vehicles. I suspect that retro-fitting seat belts to side seats is probably not legal, and even if it is, could cause us difficulty getting insured.

What do you experts think?

what a lovely gesture of your mil..

but maybe the best thing to do would be to trade the vehicle in for something more suitable if she agrees..
your kids are too precious to risk them in an accident that heaven forbid will hopefully never happen..

 

[whisky walker]

My mother-in-law has offered to give us her old motorhome. The trouble is we have 3 kids and the motorhome only has 3 seat-belted front facing seats.

There is a side facing bench-style seat, so I thought if we could somehow fit 2 seatbelts to it we've got the 5 seats we need for our family.

I've done some reading and side-facing seats are not allowed in new vehicles, but are permitted in old vehicles. I suspect that retro-fitting seat belts to side seats is probably not legal, and even if it is, could cause us difficulty getting insured.

What do you experts think?

I could be wrong but my 2006 Land Rover Defender has 4 side facing seats and they are legal always checked in the MOT and they only have lap belts.

 

[Just smiffy]

Don’t even think about it….

 

[Phill D]

On our Adria Coral slt we had a factory fitted side facing seat with seat belt . I always assumed it was therefore legal. It never came up in an MOT as an issue.

Our slt had a side bench belt but and it’s a BIG but, it had a gram which swivelled part of the seat so it was facing rearward and a lap belt.
So it was not facing sideways.

 

[Shango]

Seatbelts can be for passengers facing forward and backward, but not sideways. You could ask a Policeman or ..what do you call the vehicle testing centre in the UK ? The vehicle road worthiness inspector / test centre ?

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[Jon Stewart]

My mother-in-law has offered to give us her old motorhome. The trouble is we have 3 kids and the motorhome only has 3 seat-belted front facing seats.

There is a side facing bench-style seat, so I thought if we could somehow fit 2 seatbelts to it we've got the 5 seats we need for our family.

I've done some reading and side-facing seats are not allowed in new vehicles, but are permitted in old vehicles. I suspect that retro-fitting seat belts to side seats is probably not legal, and even if it is, could cause us difficulty getting insured.

What do you experts think?

Belted side facing seats have been illegal for a number of years in new vehicles.

Don't know whether that would apply to a certain ago of vehicle, but still pretty unsafe in a crash situation.

 

[SVMC15]

I have seen belted front facing seats that lift up out of a bench in a couple of motorhomes. Other than having a bench seat to sit on when parked up they seemed pretty pointless to me, they took up all of the storage!

Even if you get safe belted seats you will need them approving for insurance etc.

Is selling the van and getting one with the appropriate number of belted seats an option?

 

[Terry]

The law changed In August 2007
Up until 2007 you can use side facing seats without belts. If you have children then they must be sat in the seats with belts ie passenger seat/s. Mum or dad you’re in the side seat All vans made after 2007 are fitted with 3point belts for travelling seats. Only seats that don’t require belts are rear facing seats.
Side seats should never have 3 point belts and even lap belts are frowned on
Insurance wise they usually ask how any belted seats and that’s what they insure for but you can tell them you have a 5 berth van with a side seat so can legally carry 5 people - good luck with that one They may accept the risk or try elsewhere

 

[kontiki649]

We went through the process of trying to fit a double seat in the passenger front. The captains chair came out and we bolted in a double to bring our young lad to the front. It’s a useful and legal way of upping the number by 1. But we didn’t keep it as it just took away the ability to get in the rear of the motorhome from the front. But we tried it and was able to revert without massive structural changes.

 

[fishplug]

Legalities say no.

I beg to differ.

What's safe and what's the law are not always the same.

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[Speve]

You would be better off trading the old one in for a five belted seat van

 

[gus-lopez]

but are permitted in old vehicles.

yes pre 2007 as Terry said in post 18 along with the two youngest would have to have the belted front seats with You/mum + other child in the back unbelted-
Or fit/have fitted a double rear seat with its own belts attached, in place of bench by the table & bolted through to the chassis

 

[Terry]

Just a thought but have you got a dinette with forward and backward seats ?

 

[Jev88]

Probably been said already but side lapbelts are arguably more dangerous than no belts.

Adding belts is possible front facing but must be a steel frame to chassis and an engineers report followed by convincing DVLA/Vosa and then finally your insurance company.

 

[Puddleduck]

As Terry and Jev88 said.

That's a no, not safe, from me as well.

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[L' Hobo]

I don't know the legal position, but sideways lap belts are better than lap and diagonal that can cause severe neck and facial injuries in a crash as the body is moving across the belt at speed.

One funster many many years ago who showed me their van had removed the side seat and replaced it with two front seats from a scrap yard complete with swivels and the seat belt mountings built in. I can't remember his name and it was at least 15 years ago. He was an engineer and proudly told me how they were fitted through the floor to the chassis member.

That completely differs from what I was told when seat belting one of my Double Deckers to comply with a Private School contract.

The conversion HAD to be carried out by a specialist converter and when I asked," why had he not belted the side facing seats" he said, they did not come into the conversion as they were, for him to fit, illegal."

The reason why all legal nooses in the UK had big knots is because, it snapped the head sideways with force, snapping the spine and this is why, restraining a side sitting body with a belt, and not the head, is the quickest way to kill.

Forward or backward facing seats only, I was told.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

My mother-in-law has offered to give us her old motorhome. The trouble is we have 3 kids and the motorhome only has 3 seat-belted front facing seats.

There is a side facing bench-style seat, so I thought if we could somehow fit 2 seatbelts to it we've got the 5 seats we need for our family.

I've done some reading and side-facing seats are not allowed in new vehicles, but are permitted in old vehicles. I suspect that retro-fitting seat belts to side seats is probably not legal, and even if it is, could cause us difficulty getting insured.

What do you experts think?

As others have said, side facing seats are simply not safe. Yes, they may well be legal in older vehicles, and I’ve driven a few Land Rovers which had side bench seats (without belts), but in an impact, they simply provide little or no protection to the occupants. Even if belts could be retro-fitted, which require mounts to the chassis, the belts can increase the risk of neck and spinal injuries, especially to younger bodies.
Regardless of the legalities, nor the insurance implications, its not a recommended option. Probably many of us older folks may think ‘we travelled in seats like that, or without seatbelts and survived’, but those who didn’t survive, aren’t able to comment.

 

[meanders]

That completely differs from what I was told when seat belting one of my Double Deckers to comply with a Private School contract.

The conversion HAD to be carried out by a specialist converter and when I asked," why had he not belted the side facing seats" he said, they did not come into the conversion as they were, for him to fit, illegal."

The reason why all legal nooses in the UK had big knots is because, it snapped the head sideways with force, snapping the spine and this is why, restraining a side sitting body with a belt, and not the head, is the quickest way to kill.

Forward or backward facing seats only, I was told.

I suspect that requirement was because of the purpose of the vehicle. I have fitted three lots of seat belts in old vehicles. A 1953 Rover 90, a Ford 100E and a Triumph Herald. All of those needed MOT's at the time and all passed with no problems. I know they are all front facing seats as were the seats in the van I was shown as they were swivelled forward when travelling exactly the same as many front passenger seats.

 

[Jon Stewart]

yes pre 2007 as Terry said in post 18 along with the two youngest would have to have the belted front seats with You/mum + other child in the back unbelted-
Or fit/have fitted a double rear seat with its own belts attached, in place of bench by the table & bolted through to the chassis

Make sure either of the two youngest has C1.

 

[scotzsue]

Would look to swap it/ put it towards a 2009 escape 686, 6 legal seatbelts, 6 berths and a good payload, had a lightweight chassis, so no towing allowed but 3500 so no C1 needed there willbe other vans which fir this criteria. No way travel with anyone unbelted, you don't want to see a child that has been thrown through the windscreen, from the back, not the front seats