Can’t Fit Semi-Air Suspension on 2022 Ducato (1 Viewer)

[Millcourt]

……. apparently this is the case!!!!

Recently took delivery of our new MoHo (an Adria, on a 2022 Fiat Ducato base vehicle - not the “Maxi” chassis) and decided to fit rear Semi-Air Suspension, as other MoHo friends, as well as many Funsters posting on MHFun, are enthusiastic and speak of the benefits.

My nearest supplier and fitters are SAP (Doncaster), who many have praised for service and helpfulness. They asked me to take the van in to check what may be needed, which I did a couple of weeks ago……

Snag No. 1….. The new Ducato base vehicle comes with an electronic handbrake (great not having a mechanical one when swivelling the Driver’s seat) which has the control switch set into the offside of the the lower dashboard - handy for the Driver to reach, but exactly where the kit with the air suspension switches and dials are mounted. After some head scratching, SAP advised this could be mounted on the offside of the Driver’s seat base. Not ideal, but a practical solution.

Snag No. 2…… On looking under the van it was found that it is now fitted with composite leaf springs (presumably to reduce weight and perhaps cheaper to fit) and these would need to be changed. OK….but an extra cost, of course.

SAP fully booked for some months ahead….. but got a phone call, my luck was in, there had been a cancellation and the work could be done the following day.

Snag No. 3…… Dropped off the van. Got a phone call an hour later. When up on the ramp it was found that the rear Fiat suspension now includes an anti-roll bar and this made fitting the air suspension impossible!!!!!!!!!!!

SAP kindly offered to remove front and rear suspension and install full air suspension. I am sure this would be fabulous, but not at a cost of around 10% of the price of the new MoHo.

So back to square one and wondering if the anti-roll bar to some extent might obviate the gains achieved in fitting rear air suspension.

 

[mikebeaches]

Interested to hear if springs are different on the latest Ducato.

How do you rate the drive compared to previous models?

We're on our third Ducato-based MH, and to me the rear suspension always feels like it was designed for a horse and cart (which of course it probably was... originally ). But the back end is so harsh over minor potholes / imperfections in the road surface. Front end fine, just the rear. Our present van is an X290, but 6 years old.

Oh, and sorry to hear you can't get the semi-air fitted.

 

[Millcourt]

Interested to hear if springs are different on the latest Ducato.

How do you rate the drive compared to previous models?

We're on our third Ducato-based MH, and to me the rear suspension always feels like it was designed for a horse and cart (which of course it probably was... originally ). But the back end is so harsh over minor potholes / imperfections in the road surface. Front end fine, just the rear. Our present van is an X290, but 6 years old.

Oh, and sorry to hear you can't get the semi-air fitted.

Not really had enough experience yet to make a judgement about the drive. Still coming to terms with all of the new technology which is incorporated….. 9-speed auto box, electronic lane control, rear sensors and blind spot audible warning, road sign recognition and display on dash screen, smartphone cable-free charging dock, adaptive cruise control….. and other changes which I am discovering. Also this new van is somewhat bigger than the PVC we had before - so driving a bit more cautiously until I become more familiar. Away on a long road trip in a couple of weeks and perhaps this will give me a better feel for how the drive compares.

 

[ChrisL]

Interested to hear if springs are different on the latest Ducato.

When I was at SAP getting levellers fitted last year they had a pile of composite springs from Ducato's which had been removed for the fitting of air suspension, not sure if they are the same as last years now though.

 

[mikebeaches]

Not really had enough experience yet to make a judgement about the drive. Still coming to terms with all of the new technology which is incorporated….. 9-speed auto box, electronic lane control, rear sensors and blind spot audible warning, road sign recognition and display on dash screen, smartphone cable-free charging dock, adaptive cruise control….. and other changes which I am discovering. Also this new van is somewhat bigger than the PVC we had before - so driving a bit more cautiously until I become more familiar. Away on a long road trip in a couple of weeks and perhaps this will give me a better feel for how the drive compares.

Thanks for that info.

I know what you mean about the new tech - got most of it on one of our cars. Initially, there's a lot to get used to. Enjoy!

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[IRHP]

Have Fiat removed the bump stops from this model? Did they say why it can't be fitted if it has composite springs?

 

[Millcourt]

Have Fiat removed the bump stops from this model? Did they say why it can't be fitted if it has composite springs?

Apologies for the delay in responding, but wanted to check my facts with SAP.

The composite springs are much thicker and the VB air bag kit with not fit in. Bump stops are fitted, but because of the use of the composite springs, the mounting of the anti-roll bar has been modified such that even if the leaf springs are changed the air bag kit can not be installed. SAP are investigating options to overcome the problem.

 

[Guigsy]

I think my 2020 has an anti-roll bar?

 

[HarryML7]

Are sumo springs an option instead of air?

 

[Millcourt]

Are sumo springs an option instead of air?

Had not heard of SumoSprings before…..so Googled it. This You Tube video is informative, but a bit of a sales pitch,…….

Has any Funster fitted these to a Motorhome?

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[HarryML7]

Had not heard of SumoSprings before…..so Googled it. This You Tube video is informative, but a bit of a sales pitch,…….

Has any Funster fitted these to a Motorhome?

There is a video on YouTube of a guy Nick Harper fitting them to his Ducati twin.

 

[BigDean]

I was discussing this issue with Phil at Rhino Installs and they have a solution for semi air. A product from Top Drive.

This was a discussion about the composite springs on my 2021 Adria Matrix. Didn’t discuss the anti roll bar….. don’t know if I have one of those.

http://www.topdrivesystem.it/SospensionipneumaticheLCV/Default.aspx

Has anyone heard of them?

 

[Lenny HB]

SAP kindly offered to remove front and rear suspension and install full air suspension. I am sure this would be fabulous, but not at a cost of around 10% of the price of the new MoHo.

Go for it well worth it, we have full air, would never have a van without it now.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

I fancy sumo springs as a cheaper option to soften our ride but no conclusive information.

 

[Guigsy]

I fancy sumo springs as a cheaper option to soften our ride but no conclusive information.

It depends what your problem is. If the van is riding low and at the limit of the suspension travel and the harsh ride is being caused by you smacking off the bump stops/spring assistors, then Sumo springs will help.

If it's just the leaf springs are providing a poor quality ride, then adding more spring (so you get even less travel) isn't going to be as helpful.

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[knickam]

……. apparently this is the case!!!!

Recently took delivery of our new MoHo (an Adria, on a 2022 Fiat Ducato base vehicle - not the “Maxi” chassis) and decided to fit rear Semi-Air Suspension, as other MoHo friends, as well as many Funsters posting on MHFun, are enthusiastic and speak of the benefits.

My nearest supplier and fitters are SAP (Doncaster), who many have praised for service and helpfulness. They asked me to take the van in to check what may be needed, which I did a couple of weeks ago……

Snag No. 1….. The new Ducato base vehicle comes with an electronic handbrake (great not having a mechanical one when swivelling the Driver’s seat) which has the control switch set into the offside of the the lower dashboard - handy for the Driver to reach, but exactly where the kit with the air suspension switches and dials are mounted. After some head scratching, SAP advised this could be mounted on the offside of the Driver’s seat base. Not ideal, but a practical solution.

Snag No. 2…… On looking under the van it was found that it is now fitted with composite leaf springs (presumably to reduce weight and perhaps cheaper to fit) and these would need to be changed. OK….but an extra cost, of course.

SAP fully booked for some months ahead….. but got a phone call, my luck was in, there had been a cancellation and the work could be done the following day.

Snag No. 3…… Dropped off the van. Got a phone call an hour later. When up on the ramp it was found that the rear Fiat suspension now includes an anti-roll bar and this made fitting the air suspension impossible!!!!!!!!!!!

SAP kindly offered to remove front and rear suspension and install full air suspension. I am sure this would be fabulous, but not at a cost of around 10% of the price of the new MoHo.

So back to square one and wondering if the anti-roll bar to some extent might obviate the gains achieved in fitting rear air suspension.

I had the same problem with the composite springs on my Adria

However there are kits available From Drive Rite that can be fitted and I have been very happy with mine

Here are the details of the kit suitable for composite springs

Fiat Ducato X290 X250 / X290 Metric Semi Air Suspension Kit | DriveRite Air Suspension Systems, Precision Engineered Air Suspension Products

I got mine from Marcle leisure

Motorhome, Caravan & Marine equipment

www.marcleleisure.co.uk

They were very helpful and able to supply a kit including suspension, Compressor, Gauges and control switches.

 

[BillandHelen]

We had full air on our previous Fiat van, transformed the ride, would thoroughly recommend it. Unfortunately on our new Mercedes can only get rear which is a real shame.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

It depends what your problem is. If the van is riding low and at the limit of the suspension travel and the harsh ride is being caused by you smacking off the bump stops/spring assistors, then Sumo springs will help.

If it's just the leaf springs are providing a poor quality ride, then adding more spring (so you get even less travel) isn't going to be as helpful.

Yes its the harsh ride a crashing when going over potholes or anything thicker than a match

 

[Sapper520]

Nick Harper……..

 

[Paul_M]

I've done a few trips now with Sumo fitted to my 21 6m Ducato van conversion. Previously the suspension felt crude and bottomed out pretty easily. I'd been tempted by air, but apart from cost (unlikely to be reflected in 2nd hand value) it seemed like another maintenance item. As a compromise I went for Sumo f&r. I am very happy with the result. It feels more compliant (can quite wotrk out why but it does) and takes a big pothole to bottom out. Should be good when I hitch up the trailer (not tried yet).

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[Sapper520]

I've done a few trips now with Sumo fitted to my 21 6m Ducato van conversion. Previously the suspension felt crude and bottomed out pretty easily. I'd been tempted by air, but apart from cost (unlikely to be reflected in 2nd hand value) it seemed like another maintenance item. As a compromise I went for Sumo f&r. I am very happy with the result. It feels more compliant (can quite wotrk out why but it does) and takes a big pothole to bottom out. Should be good when I hitch up the trailer (not tried yet).

Paul, I see you’ve left both spacers on, others have taken one off. I take it the Sumo Springs with both fitted sit partially compressed all the time then?

Can I ask where and how much you paid please? I see the main supplier in the UK is now charging £399 just for the rears.

 

[Boringfrog]

Yes its the harsh ride a crashing when going over potholes or anything thicker than a match

What tyre pressures are you running at the rear?

 

[Paul_M]

I choose to leave both spacers on partly since advised the kit wouldn't stiffen up the suspension greatly (and thus as a full build camper shouldn't use the lower weight Sumo option). The other reason is that I do most mileage towing a medium weight trailer (excellent Tickner GT955). Previously that left the van slightly 'nose high' (3cm rise), which wasn't a real issue until experiencing a strong cross wind near the border on the A1 - which resulted in very twitchy steering. Will be interesting to see the rise next time I hook up. As noted I haven't tested that yet, but given current solo use I'd still leave both spacers, since it still feels quite 'floaty' and it in extreme it will still use all travel. I would say don't expect miracles, it doesn't feel like air suspension, but it a big improvement from standard and well worth the cost. That said the like a lot of things the listed price has JUMPED recently; my invoice was a little over £500 for f&r. You could import, but from experience in other areas duty and carriage from the US often eats up the gain, so do your homework if going that route. Otherwise I'd be tempted to just go for the rears, the front could always be added later.

Tyre pressure is another interesting discussion. What with high fuel costs I've kept them up at 79psi as suggested, but often felt that was a bit excessive. I actually think the Sumo's lessen that feeling.

 

[Sapper520]

I choose to leave both spacers on partly since advised the kit wouldn't stiffen up the suspension greatly (and thus as a full build camper shouldn't use the lower weight Sumo option). The other reason is that I do most mileage towing a medium weight trailer (excellent Tickner GT955). Previously that left the van slightly 'nose high' (3cm rise), which wasn't a real issue until experiencing a strong cross wind near the border on the A1 - which resulted in very twitchy steering. Will be interesting to see the rise next time I hook up. As noted I haven't tested that yet, but given current solo use I'd still leave both spacers, since it still feels quite 'floaty' and it in extreme it will still use all travel. I would say don't expect miracles, it doesn't feel like air suspension, but it a big improvement from standard and well worth the cost. That said the like a lot of things the listed price has JUMPED recently; my invoice was a little over £500 for f&r. You could import, but from experience in other areas duty and carriage from the US often eats up the gain, so do your homework if going that route. Otherwise I'd be tempted to just go for the rears, the front could always be added later.

Tyre pressure is another interesting discussion. What with high fuel costs I've kept them up at 79psi as suggested, but often felt that was a bit excessive. I actually think the Sumo's lessen that feeling.

Many thanks, great information as we have plans to tow our motorcycles on a trailer……but that’s on the ‘to do’ list. We have the tow bar, but not a trailer yet.

Prices in the USA are far cheaper, but it’ll be a gamble on how much import duty I’d end up paying.

 

[BigDean]

I had the same problem with the composite springs on my Adria

However there are kits available From Drive Rite that can be fitted and I have been very happy with mine

Here are the details of the kit suitable for composite springs

Fiat Ducato X290 X250 / X290 Metric Semi Air Suspension Kit | DriveRite Air Suspension Systems, Precision Engineered Air Suspension Products

I got mine from Marcle leisure

Motorhome, Caravan & Marine equipment

www.marcleleisure.co.uk

They were very helpful and able to supply a kit including suspension, Compressor, Gauges and control switches.

Very interesting. Do you happen to have a photograph of the controls? Where did you install them?

Thanks
BigDean.

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[knickam]

Very interesting. Do you happen to have a photograph of the controls? Where did you install them?

Thanks
BigDean.

Here are some pics

There is an option for a digital gauge which I was interested in but if I remember correctly they did not have a suitable backplate to fit it in the position above.

Hope that helps

 

[BigDean]

Here are some pics

View attachment 658879View attachment 658880

There is an option for a digital gauge which I was interested in but if I remember correctly they did not have a suitable backplate to fit it in the position above.

Hope that helps

Thanks a millions for that. How much higher would you say the back end goes up? Mine is very low . Thanks again.

 

[knickam]

Thanks a millions for that. How much higher would you say the back end goes up? Mine is very low . Thanks again.

At 4 Bar it is roughly an inch higher at the rear wheel and a bit more that the rear

 

[These Big Adventures]

……. apparently this is the case!!!!

Recently took delivery of our new MoHo (an Adria, on a 2022 Fiat Ducato base vehicle - not the “Maxi” chassis) and decided to fit rear Semi-Air Suspension, as other MoHo friends, as well as many Funsters posting on MHFun, are enthusiastic and speak of the benefits.

My nearest supplier and fitters are SAP (Doncaster), who many have praised for service and helpfulness. They asked me to take the van in to check what may be needed, which I did a couple of weeks ago……

Snag No. 1….. The new Ducato base vehicle comes with an electronic handbrake (great not having a mechanical one when swivelling the Driver’s seat) which has the control switch set into the offside of the the lower dashboard - handy for the Driver to reach, but exactly where the kit with the air suspension switches and dials are mounted. After some head scratching, SAP advised this could be mounted on the offside of the Driver’s seat base. Not ideal, but a practical solution.

Snag No. 2…… On looking under the van it was found that it is now fitted with composite leaf springs (presumably to reduce weight and perhaps cheaper to fit) and these would need to be changed. OK….but an extra cost, of course.

SAP fully booked for some months ahead….. but got a phone call, my luck was in, there had been a cancellation and the work could be done the following day.

Snag No. 3…… Dropped off the van. Got a phone call an hour later. When up on the ramp it was found that the rear Fiat suspension now includes an anti-roll bar and this made fitting the air suspension impossible!!!!!!!!!!!

SAP kindly offered to remove front and rear suspension and install full air suspension. I am sure this would be fabulous, but not at a cost of around 10% of the price of the new MoHo.

So back to square one and wondering if the anti-roll bar to some extent might obviate the gains achieved in fitting rear air suspension.

Millcourt what did you end up doing with yours? I've also got a 2022 Adria and wanted to get air. Almost bought a kit today but then stumbled on this thread! Not sure on the size of the airbags but it looks tight with the roll bar where it is

 

[BigDean]

Millcourt what did you end up doing with yours? I've also got a 2022 Adria and wanted to get air. Almost bought a kit today but then stumbled on this thread! Not sure on the size of the airbags but it looks tight with the roll bar where it is

I ended up with Top Drive (reinforced) on mine. Very happy. Has the most travel of any system I found and is compatible with composite springs. Mine is a 2021 Adria Matrix.

Marcle sell them or I got mine fitted by Nick at Autosat.

BigDean.

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