CAMC storage facilities - no access

[tomm]

Our van is stored on a council owned cassoa grade site. Since the latest stage of lockdown movement started , all they have advised is that access to the site is as normal , however they request that social distancing and travel , as per Government advice , is maintained . An absolutely reasonable request . I dont think councils would knowingly breach any central government instruction and have probably read the detailed fine print . They may realise and accept that they cannot deny people reasonable access to their property .

For purposes of the OPs case , I could appreciate the C&MC stating no access to the storage , IF it is a secure and seperate storage yard , within the grounds of a locked down camp site AND there are are no staff on duty in the campsite........... However The OP says that there are staff on site ( post No 22 above ) , maintaining the area . So I really dont think C&MC can justify not allowing owners on to the storage area.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

If there are staff on site I presume they are carrying out maintenance and may not be near the entrance. This would mean that they may not be aware that you are there. I dare say if they allowed access people could be turning up at different times and the wardens would then be back and forwards to the gate to allow people in and not be able to get on with their jobs. We have our van in a private Cassoa site within Marquis's site which was totally locked down until the latest relaxation of travel. It is now open on only 2 days for access, Thursday 4 - 7.00pm and Sunday 10.00am - 2.00pm. That's your lot, if you can't get those times you've had it. This is a much bigger site than any C&MC one, probably in excess of 200 units, and even they can't justify having somebody on standby full time at the gates just in case someone turns up wanting to check their m/h or c/van.

 

[fiferjim]

Can access my storage 24/7. It's 45 minute walk away, so easy to get to. Two separate security gates are operated by authorised phones. Would hate not being able to access my MH whenever I wanted.

Similar for me. No staff have to be around so difficult to see why access should be an issue.

 

[Pausim]

When our motorhome was stored on a C&MC site that closed for the winter they employed a “winter sitter” who provided access, security and did winter jobs around the site. I took that to be part of the service I was paying for. If I was still using that facility and continued to be denied access, now that it can be done legally, I would be very cross and expect the storage fee to be credited to next year.

When I first bought a more expensive motorhome my then insurers wanted it on a CaSSOA site but reluctantly accepted a C&MC one if there was a resident on site warden supervising the facility. I changed insurer to a more flexible one because of other terms they wished to impose. However, if the C&MC had removed the resident on site security it would again have been unacceptable to me and I would have been looking for a refund or credit.

I do not believe that any of the lockdown conditions prevented the C&MC keeping staff on site to provide security and access as well now that we are allowed to travel away from home. In short I think the C&MC is well out of order if they have removed the site staff who provide security and access and that is something users should be compensated for.

 

[bluesurf989]

Im going to phone them this week to let tell them i need my motorhome as my wifes car has broken down and shes a key worker, we need the motorhome for transport while the cars being fixed!

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[xYachties]

Just copied this off the Covid page on the Caravan and Motorhome Club

"Storage sites
At this time our storage facilities remain closed. We will contact all of our storage customers directly with updated information should the advice from Government change. We would ask that you wait until we have contacted you directly and therefore not contact our sites or our contact centre in advance of receiving your email".

I can't find any guidance on the government site saying storage sites should be closed. Am I missing something somewhere? In fact the opposite and should be open.

Like Nick Lomas implies you can only use you Motorhome if it's you ONLY vehicle.

Hope it's not the case, but beginning to wonder if they are embellishing the Laws for commercial gain.

Yet the club should be representing its members, with correct information, rather than misinformation.

 

[David and Sally]

Our site is open for maintenance and taking off / bringing back. That is a private permanent pitch site where the owner is being sensible but not allowing overnights obviously.

I wonder what is driving the CMC, but they do appear to be peeing off a lot of customers by being so rigid.

 

[Pausim]

The C&MC seem to be making up their own Covid19 rules. I think they have furloughed the staff and are hoping to save money, at the expense of Members who use their storage areas. The bit about ONLY vehicle is implied male bovine faeces, the Police are telling MH users they can not stay overnight not that they can‘t use the vehicle for days out.

 

[xYachties]

Just copied this off the Covid page on the Caravan and Motorhome Club

"Storage sites
At this time our storage facilities remain closed. We will contact all of our storage customers directly with updated information should the advice from Government change. We would ask that you wait until we have contacted you directly and therefore not contact our sites or our contact centre in advance of receiving your email".

I can't find any guidance on the government site saying storage sites should be closed. Am I missing something somewhere? In fact the opposite and should be open.

Like Nick Lomas implies you can only use you Motorhome if it's you ONLY vehicle.

Hope it's not the case, but beginning to wonder if they are embellishing the Laws for commercial gain.

Yet the club should be representing its members, with correct information, rather than misinformation.

 

[Bigjohneaton]

Where I keep mine have been going to it regular took cover off on Friday and am taking for mot this week then will park up again hope not for long

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[Lizi]

The gate on the entrance to our storage opens with an electronic card. Even when the site is open, we do not see anyone. We come in the gate and drive through site to another gate which is usually open in the day. The staff live at the entrance so see everyone coming in. The site is not huge so even if the working staff member was cutting the grass, in most cases he would see people enter. The furloughed staff member would presumably also see if they were doing the mostly at home advice.
The club responded at length and said : "whilst we appreciate that there may be stand-alone storage operators, including marinas and self-storage sites, that are taking the view they are able to allow access, the key difference is that they may not be affected by schedule 5 of the original regulations in the same way that we are, as they may not be based on caravan site premises". They go on to say that they will not be allowed to open until July at earliest under the Hospitality and Tourism industries are allowed to open.
It is just so infuriating as they seem to me to be over interpreting the guidance. Storage has nothing to do with hospitality and tourism. Driving through an empty site to access a vehicle cannot possibly be what the government mean.

 

[Pausim]

"whilst we appreciate that there may be stand-alone storage operators, including marinas and self-storage sites, that are taking the view they are able to allow access, the key difference is that they may not be affected by schedule 5 of the original regulations in the same way that we are, as they may not be based on caravan site premises".

I can’t find a Schedule 5, The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 only has two Schedules. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong regulations, it would have been more helpful if the C&MC had been more specific about what regulation they mean by “original”.

When I had my motorhome on a C&MC storage site they managed to keep the site fully closed all winter but could provide access to the storage area with 24 hours notice. I think they are now making poor excuses and hiding behind regulations that they have not properly identified or fully quoted.

 

[Ernesto]

You would think a club, thats dedicated to the hobby we enjoy, would do everything in its power to empathise and support its members. Instead, they seem to have tried to find any possible justification, not to help.

To force members to leave a van totally unattended for such a long time is really really poor. This from the club appealing for people to buy vouchers to help to keep it afloat earlier this year.

 

[bigtwin]

Could it be that they foresee any vans being removed from storage being used ‘elsewhere’ and want to prevent this? Any usage ‘elsewhere’ could be perceived as being detrimental to the industry as a whole (bad PR) and as having the potential to reduce demand at their sites when they do finally open.

Ian

 

[Caggsie1]

As far as I am aware, our storage site which is within the actual site has staff in situ. For extra security we were told. I am assuming This is applicable to there other storage facilities

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[Ernesto]

Could it be that they foresee any vans being removed from storage being used ‘elsewhere’ and want to prevent this? Any usage ‘elsewhere’ could be perceived as being detrimental to the industry as a whole (bad PR) and as having the potential to reduce demand at their sites when they do finally open.

Ian

Its possible - unlikely I think, but possible. But even if that were the reason, a club with its members best interests at heart, would allow people to visit and maintain their vans and ask them not to remove them - which I assume most would be ok with.
This club is (I understand) preventing any access at all. Officious and customer un-friendly

 

[Pausim]

Do they stop us taking our vans out because we might drive badly and get the industry a bad name? No. It is not their job to police how or when we use our vans. I suspect the answer is a simple one, they have furloughed or laid off most of their staff and it would cost them money to open up the storage facilities before they fully open their sites. They pretend to be a Members Club but they run it as a business.

 

[Hamsters]

Can access my storage 24/7. It's 45 minute walk away, so easy to get to. Two separate security gates are operated by authorised phones. Would hate not being able to access my MH whenever I wanted.

Sounds like you are on the same storage as myself, Tarran Way

 

[bigtwin]

Its possible - unlikely I think, but possible. But even if that were the reason, a club with its members best interests at heart, would allow people to visit and maintain their vans and ask them not to remove them - which I assume most would be ok with.
This club is (I understand) preventing any access at all. Officious and customer un-friendly

It does seem to be a strange position to adopt.

Ian

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

Do they stop us taking our vans out because we might drive badly and get the industry a bad name? No. It is not their job to police how or when we use our vans. I suspect the answer is a simple one, they have furloughed or laid off most of their staff and it would cost them money to open up the storage facilities before they fully open their sites. They pretend to be a Members Club but they run it as a business.

Would you be happy then if they brought all their wardens out of furlough to help you access your van and then put the membership fee up to cover the shortfall created by having no income from the sites? You may well be but I suspect those that don't use their storage facilities wouldn't be too happy.

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[gus-lopez]

This is a much bigger site than any C&MC one, probably in excess of 200 units, and even they can't justify having somebody on standby full time at the gates just in case someone turns up wanting to check their m/h or c/van.

Why not? It isn't as though they haven't been paid for the service & in advance.

Nick Lomas implies you can only use you Motorhome if it's you ONLY vehicle.

The ma is a ****-Just trying to justify ,incorrectly & illegally, the fact that he has laid off all the staff to save the company money by using the governments .
If I was needing the vehicle I'd have informed them either they let me in or the gates get chopped up.

Would you be happy then if they brought all their wardens out of furlough to help you access your van and then put the membership fee up to cover the shortfall created by having no income from the sites? You may well be but I suspect those that don't use their storage facilities wouldn't be too happy.

As above they have already been paid in advance. Many people's insurance might actually be compromised as the sites have no personnel on them especially if the insurance only covered them with persons on site.

 

[Pausim]

Would you be happy then if they brought all their wardens out of furlough to help you access your van and then put the membership fee up to cover the shortfall created by having no income from the sites? You may well be but I suspect those that don't use their storage facilities wouldn't be too happy.

I no longer use their storage facilities, as I said in earlier posts. No I am not expecting them to bring all their wardens out of furlough and I have not suggested that they should. Very few people are needed to provide the service the storage clients pay for separately. They provide winter access on closed sites with a winter sitter and I see no reason why they can’t do something similar now. As with the winter arrangements no need to be available all the time, just by request. This need not be anymore expensive than their usual out of season arrangements.

 

[cornish boy]

LINK to .GOV.UK site

I would imagine they are referring to Schedule 1 and Schedule 5 in here.

Guess it is open to interpretation, or as we now describe it - 'a Barnard Castle Eye Test'

 

[Oldbob]

Caravan and motorhome club site have a good thread on there about this, 1266 posts last time I looked.
The short version ..... People aren't happy and kicking off, one club official says all staff furloughed so no one to supervise, another official says can't open due to government guidance and supplies 2 pages of drivel and links to .gov site.
So going on all that, sites are a free for all, no grass being cut or anything as all staff furloughed, in practice there are staff on site cutting grass, doing maintenance etc, so if they have furloughed them and I his is extras then hope hmrc don't find out !!
I only belong for the small sites access ....... At the moment.

 

[Twogirls]

With respect, I think the main point of the lockdown guidance/regulations, set by the Government, is being missed here which is to control the spread of the virus. Site owners have a legal duty of care to their staff and to their customers, and if the site, including storage facilities, is closed then its closed, unless they can guarantee that the risk posed by people coming and going can be minimised and that will mean paying staff to monitor/supervise the comings and goings at a time when they have no income from campers. It's no different to people owning statics and lodges on sites, which they cannot now use, even though they've paid thousands of pounds in site fees.

hen it's closed.

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[bigtwin]

With respect, I think the main point of the lockdown guidance/regulations, set by the Government, is being missed here which is to control the spread of the virus. Site owners have a legal duty of care to their staff and to their customers, and if the site, including storage facilities, is closed then its closed, unless they can guarantee that the risk posed by people coming and going can be minimised and that will mean paying staff to monitor/supervise the comings and goings at a time when they have no income from campers. It's no different to people owning statics and lodges on sites, which they cannot now use, even though they've paid thousands of pounds in site fees.

They are at no greater risk than, and face the same legal obligation as, supermarkets, etc.

This would not preclude allowing reasonable access by customers to the storage area who, like the population as a whole, have an overarching obligation to abide by the SD rules when outside the home.
The only scenario that I can see where the Club might have a problem would be If such access required input from staff and those staff were furloughed.

Ian

 

[Bognor Saint]

Thanks for that Bluesurf. I will contact them again. Are other non CMC storage open - does anyone know?

The storage facility we use is still in lockdown but now allowing people in to check etc but no vehicle movement. They have hooked up my van to electricity when my tracker app was showing low voltage. Visits need to be arranged prior to attending.

 

[Twogirls]

They are at no greater risk than, and face the same legal obligation as, supermarkets, etc.

This would not preclude allowing reasonable access by customers to the storage area who, like the population as a whole, have an overarching obligation to abide by the SD rules when outside the home.
The only scenario that I can see where the Club might have a problem would be If such access required input from staff and those staff were furloughed.

Ian

They are at no greater risk than, and face the same legal obligation as, supermarkets, etc.

This would not preclude allowing reasonable access by customers to the storage area who, like the population as a whole, have an overarching obligation to abide by the SD rules when outside the home.
The only scenario that I can see where the Club might have a problem would be If such access required input from staff and those staff were furloughed.

Ian

Fair point. Remember though, that storage is for storage,owners don't normally want to come along for a few hours fettling, they just take their van off site and then return it. There may be hundreds of vans all parked close together. If only a small percentage want to come and have a fettle on any one day that's still potentially a lot of people milling around and yes, although they should social distance it still comes down to the site owner if there's a subsequent outbreak traced back to the site?

 

[Coolcats]

Sports clubs are not open, one reason is the insurance cover, having said this is personal sports equipment is stored on site there is a process the club can make for owners to be able to collect and take thier personal kit off site. So there are two issues here, 1) Insurance 2) process

Done shoot me I am just outlining what sports clubs can and cannot do in the light of Government guidance