C&MC bookings…….

[two]

It’s not unreasonable to charge people who create financial loss by booking then not turning-up (or leaving early) so I’m all for a change. Why should everyone else subsidies those who take advantage? Until the club does something to check it, things will only get worse. I left that club for several reasons and their booking system was one of them. I’ve no idea, but had imagined that membership was falling and maybe a reluctance to rock their boat has caused them to delay radical change (or be seen to be following ‘the other club’).

The talk had often been about ‘block bookers’ and I had reason to believe it: I tried in vain to book Baltic Wharf for the Balloon or Harbour Festival and assumed there was some kind of conspiracy because I was never successful. The club will know the extent to which block booking takes place and who the culprits are, so they could deal with those individuals if they wanted to (perhaps there are too many?). I made several suggestions to them about how the booking system might be improved (a rolling system was one, to avoid ‘Frenzy Day’) but didn’t even get an acknowledgement.

Good luck to them. If Covid stops me going abroad, I might re-join, but I can find plenty of other sites without at the moment.

 

[robnchris]

What do you actually mean about sorting out the maximum nights allowed to stay robnchris the current situation permits a max of 21 nights on any individual site

That's exactly what I mean, if you stay 20 nights you can go away for 1 night and then return, if you stay 21 nights then you have to leave and stay away for 2 nights.
What on earth is that all about, pure unnecessary control placed on you by the local council.

 

[RandallC]

This from the Caravan and Motorhome Club today (sorry if it’s been posted before!)

‘Why is the Club introducing deposits?​

Back in 2018, to improve availability for all members, we changed the way we put pitches on sale to enable you to always book at least a year ahead, all year round. This new system has proven very popular, with over one million nights already booked for stays in 2022!

The next step to improving availability is the introduction of deposits coupled with cancellation terms and conditions. This will help address the rise in cancellations, which has been a growing problem that has increased in recent years.

• In a normal year, we often see over 25% of all bookings being cancelled (that’s over 950,000 cancelled nights...every year!)
• Of those cancelled nights, over 25% are made within four days of arrival, so it’s very difficult for other members to take advantage of the newly vacant pitches.
• And it’s not just a small minority of ‘block bookers’ who are cancelling, almost half of all members who make a booking each year make at least one amendment or cancellation too. As you can imagine, a lot of members all cancelling a few times a year soon adds up! After reviewing the market, speaking to members and looking at other campsite providers the best solution to reduce speculative bookings is to introduce a deposit system. This will reduce the number of speculative bookings and create more availability for members.
• We know plans sometimes do have to change, so if you cancel or amend your booking at least 21 days before arrival, your deposit will be fully refunded. This will give other members enough time to make a new booking and take advantage of the newly available pitch.

Club members and staff have worked together to create this new approach, and we’re all confident it will provide all members with more availability and an easier booking experience.’

No date for introduction as yet…….

About time too.

Tried to plan a 4 week tour in Mid September but many sites booked up, checked 72hours before we needed a booking, low and behold cancelations.

Sick of folks who book so far in advance on the off chance they might fancy a trip there if the stars align and the weather looks ok.

A reminder email drops in their inbox, oh SH&T forgot about that, quick cancel cus don't fancy it, or not remembering they had booked a pitch in the first place.

Gosh that feels better to have got that out in the open.

 

[Sapper520]

It’s not unreasonable to charge people who create financial loss by booking then not turning-up (or leaving early) so I’m all for a change. Why should everyone else subsidies those who take advantage? Until the club does something to check it, things will only get worse. I left that club for several reasons and their booking system was one of them. I’ve no idea, but had imagined that membership was falling and maybe a reluctance to rock their boat has caused them to delay radical change (or be seen to be following ‘the other club’).

The talk had often been about ‘block bookers’ and I had reason to believe it: I tried in vain to book Baltic Wharf for the Balloon or Harbour Festival and assumed there was some kind of conspiracy because I was never successful. The club will know the extent to which block booking takes place and who the culprits are, so they could deal with those individuals if they wanted to (perhaps there are too many?). I made several suggestions to them about how the booking system might be improved (a rolling system was one, to avoid ‘Frenzy Day’) but didn’t even get an acknowledgement.

Good luck to them. If Covid stops me going abroad, I might re-join, but I can find plenty of other sites without at the moment.

We have left twice early. Both times our last night due to the weather…….gale force winds first time and rain like stair rods the second. We’d paid so no financial loss to the club. Weather wouldn’t normally make us return home, but these were particularly unpleasant conditions.

 

[Gellyneck]

A reminder email drops in their inbox, oh SH&T forgot about that, quick cancel cus don't fancy it, or not remembering they had booked a pitch in the first place.

Our booking reminders are received (normally) a month in advance and if others are the same it may be a waste of time if late cancellers just wait until a few days before.

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[two]

We have left twice early. Both times our last night due to the weather…….gale force winds first time and rain like stair rods the second. We’d paid so no financial loss to the club. Weather wouldn’t normally make us return home, but these were particularly unpleasant conditions.

Yes, leaving early is covered. We needed to leave early on a few occasions, for unplanned reasons, and received no refund.

We also failed to turn up once because we got the wrong week.
We discovered this when we arrived the following week, to the surprise of the wardens, and were able to stay.
In the good ol' days, you didn't need to book: Just roll-up and go in. I don't suppose we'll ever get back to that in this country.

 

[Sapper520]

Yes, leaving early is covered. We needed to leave early on a few occasions, for unplanned reasons, and received no refund.

We also failed to turn up once because we got the wrong week.
We discovered this when we arrived the following week, to the surprise of the wardens, and were able to stay.
In the good ol' days, you didn't need to book: Just roll-up and go in. I don't suppose we'll ever get back to that in this country.

We’ve not had much luck, in the UK, trying to plan a tour route without having to pre-book a place to stay to guarantee a pitch.

 

[L' Hobo]

That's exactly what I mean, if you stay 20 nights you can go away for 1 night and then return, if you stay 21 nights then you have to leave and stay away for 2 nights.
What on earth is that all about, pure unnecessary control placed on you by the local council.

I was under the impression that the CCC rule state 24hrs?? I had better check!

EDIT: I have just checked

CCC max stay 28days / 24hrs off

C& MHC max 21 day / 48hr off

 

[Larrynwin]

Couldn’t get the link

 

[L' Hobo]

As I have stated on FUN before on a different thread, us people of a certain age can be flexible in our booking BUT
if you have a job and a young family and your holiday period is fixed, what can you do?

Often you HAVE to settle for a less than ideal site because you HAVE to be CERTAIN that you can get SOMEWHERE in order to give your family a holiday!
This cannot be arranged in the last 7 days, especially if your partner also has to book a holiday period off from their work.

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[SpeedyDux]

C&MC is becoming more like the money-grubbing commercial sites, and less like a not-for-profit members' club. Hence the creeping addition of camping pods and glamping tents that means they can charge a lot more for such pitches. The deposit system is part of that direction of travel.

I suspect that part of the pressure for the introduction of deposits is complaints from the traditional tuggers (still the majority of the membership) that they find it difficult to book 7 or 14 consecutive pitch nights at one site. By contrast, with our MH we tend to book only 3 to 5 (at most) consecutive pitch nights at any site, which makes it more difficult for these tuggers to find the availability they want at time of booking. You can see where this is going. The effect of having to pay deposits indirectly favours the interests of longer-stay tuggers. You might be forgiven for thinking that on balance such a deposit system tends to discriminate against the minority motorhoming membership.

 

[Gellyneck]

C&MC is becoming more like the money-grubbing commercial sites, and less like a not-for-profit members' club. Hence the creeping addition of camping pods and glamping tents that means they can charge a lot more for such pitches. The deposit system is part of that direction of travel.

I suspect that part of the pressure for the introduction of deposits is complaints from the traditional tuggers (still the majority of the membership) that they find it difficult to book 7 or 14 consecutive pitch nights at one site. By contrast, with our MH we tend to book only 3 to 5 (at most) consecutive pitch nights at any site, which makes it more difficult for these tuggers to find the availability they want at time of booking. You can see where this is going. The effect of having to pay deposits indirectly favours the interests of longer-stay tuggers. You might be forgiven for thinking that on balance such a deposit system tends to discriminate against the minority motorhoming membership.

Probably partially agree with your comments around tuggers looking for 7-14 consecutive nights but would also add the desire for chuggers seeking pitches on a short leadtime and finding minimal availability.

Agree with your comments on pods and glamping. We don't believe this is in line with the fundamental ethos of the Club providing facilities for touring vacationers.

Given the figures outlined above it would appear that somewhere around 6% of cancellations (and/or no shows) are within the 3 day window and if this is the case and deposits are being introduced on this basis it appears to be the tail wagging the dog! Why should the minority drive Club procedures? Why not put to a ballot of members as this would remove all dubiety around members desires?

Your comment on "money-grubbing (sic)" is probably nearer the mark! As an indication we've got 46 nights booked Apr \ May \ Jun 2022 on 11 sites with 7 of these being C&MC at an average nightly cost of £31+ and 4 being independents at an average nightly cost of £24+. We've been on all the independents previously and their facilities \ layout \ etc all meet, or are very close to, C&MC standards.

For personal reasons we like \ need to pre-book well in advance and have only ever once cancelled within the 3 day window and this as a result of a hospital admission. However, wouldn't deny that we have adjusted \ changed some bookings a month or so in advance. If a non-refundable deposit scheme were to be introduced this would severely impact ourselves and we would need to reconsider membership however if deposits were to be refundable, as outlined in the original post, up to 3 weeks in advance this may be workable for us.

 

[Bernie P]

C&MC system does not permit an individual member to book more than one pitch for the same date. I suppose multiple members could form a clique and multiple book but would be a bu**er to manage who goes away on what weekend!

It used to allow it. They changed it a couple of years back in an attempt to stop the practice.

 

[Langtoftlad]

"with over one million nights already booked for stays in 2022!"

Kerrching £££££

£25 million in their coffers, with only a small amount of that needed in a float to pay out deposits as others come in.

"This is an extremely exciting project with huge benefits for members and we look forward to sharing our progress over the coming months."

Not sure what benefits "members" will see
Can't see it stopping the block booking - why not limit the number of bookings one member can have to five or ten if block booking is really an issue.
It will only catch out those who forget to cancel/amend three weeks before.

 

[Jim]

So that's three deposits [at least], two refunds [at least] and a lot of wasted time for me.

Refunds cost the company hard cash too.

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[hja]

There is, as you would expect, a very lengthy thread on this on the CAMC forum.
people report that in the camping and caravan club changing bookings and moving deposits needs a phone call, whereas currently it is easy to amend any camc booking on line. Given the clubs own figures about changes to bookings if that process is not as easy as now, I think there will be a lot of upset.
Much of the argument seems to be that the club, in charging deposits, will simply be in line with others, and so any talk of “going elsewhere” will have the same issues. Much will centre on the t & c of the deposits.
if you limited the number of bookings someone could make it would hamper those visiting a number of sites over one holiday.
I shall be interested to see how the choice of pitch surface that will also be introduced is going to work out. I gather that when this was tried before it ended up with empty pitches e.g. I book hard standing for 2 nights mid week, it would need similar short bookings to fill up rest of week, especially if booked up at weekend.
Interesting times, especially during the time when both systems are running concurrentl!

 

[robnchris]

Then you have the other thing the C&MC club have introduced were they phone you up the week before your arrival date and ask for full payment.
This will really upset a few people.

 

[glenn2926]

Then you have the other thing the C&MC club have introduced were they phone you up the week before your arrival date and ask for full payment.
This will really upset a few people.

They’ll be lucky, I don’t answer my phone if it’s from a number not in my contacts.
I wouldn’t mind paying a week in advance but a phone call from some number I don’t know asking for my money, that’s not going to work.

 

[Mikey RV]

Then you have the other thing the C&MC club have introduced were they phone you up the week before your arrival date and ask for full payment.
This will really upset a few people.

Only the same that happens on other sites, hotels, holidays, it’s the norm.

 

[Gellyneck]

Then you have the other thing the C&MC club have introduced were they phone you up the week before your arrival date and ask for full payment.
This will really upset a few people.

Must have missed that bit. Can you point me in the right direction for it.
Ta

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[Clickem]

Then you have the other thing the C&MC club have introduced were they phone you up the week before your arrival date and ask for full payment.
This will really upset a few people.

Only times we have been asked to pay before arrival was at Black Horse, Folkestone, when using a Ferry Pitch

 

[charliesgrandad]

Only the same that happens on other sites, hotels, holidays, it’s the norm.

Only I am not a member of any hotels or private sites , when all this come in is there any point in it being a members club

 

[Gellyneck]

Only I am not a member of any hotels or private sites , when all this come in is there any point in it being a members club

Given my previous -

"As an indication we've got 46 nights booked Apr \ May \ Jun 2022 on 11 sites with 7 of these being C&MC at an average nightly cost of £31+ and 4 being independents at an average nightly cost of £24+. We've been on all the independents previously and their facilities \ layout \ etc all meet, or are very close to, C&MC standards."

with deposits for both (independent deposits are lower than the imminent C&MC's) starting to think possibly not!

I could just book independents and save money, say, £7 \ night over, say, 100 -150 nights saving somewhere around £700 - £1,000.

Membership starts to look only a positive if you want to use services that are restricted to members only, eg storage, insurance, etc.

 

[Harrogate motorhomer]

The changes being made are for the benefit of CAMC not the members just the same as the recently introduced 1 pm arrival times which at this time of year means a 25% reduction in daylight hours on arrival day. All their excuses about extra covid cleaning are just that. I haven’t seen anyone cleaning anymore thoroughly but have seen wardens having time for lunch before opening up & 1pm arrivals was introduced on some sites well before covid. Can’t wait to get back through the tunnel.

 

[SpeedyDux]

There is, as you would expect, a very lengthy thread on this on the CAMC forum.
people report that in the camping and caravan club changing bookings and moving deposits needs a phone call, whereas currently it is easy to amend any camc booking on line. Given the clubs own figures about changes to bookings if that process is not as easy as now, I think there will be a lot of upset.
Much of the argument seems to be that the club, in charging deposits, will simply be in line with others, and so any talk of “going elsewhere” will have the same issues. Much will centre on the t & c of the deposits.
if you limited the number of bookings someone could make it would hamper those visiting a number of sites over one holiday.
I shall be interested to see how the choice of pitch surface that will also be introduced is going to work out. I gather that when this was tried before it ended up with empty pitches e.g. I book hard standing for 2 nights mid week, it would need similar short bookings to fill up rest of week, especially if booked up at weekend.
Interesting times, especially during the time when both systems are running concurrentl!

Thanks for pointing me towards the Club Together thread on this topic. I note that the original thread has been closed and though I am still reading it I keep coming across quite a few posts that simply say "Content has been removed." Mods have been very active and I wonder what was censored.

In advance of publication of the actual T&Cs there is a sort of FAQ page. https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/faqs/uk-booking-experience/

I wanted to find out what reasons for cancellation or amendment within the 21 days before the booking would result in deposits being refunded. There isn't much to go on. Basically you are screwed. If you cancel due to illness (except Covid which has a separate answer below)

"The Club will sensitively manage cancellations due to exceptional circumstances."

It gives the impression that you would have to disclose details of your medical problem or illness to beg ask for an exception to be made. Which presumably is at the discretion of a manager at the HQ. On privacy grounds, I dislike that sort of approach intensely.

If your reason is Covid, or having been in close contact with someone with Covid and having to isolate, at least that would result in a refund.

What happens if you are unable to turn up, due to circumstances outside your control? This isn't covered. Sh1t happens, you lose.

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[robnchris]

Must have missed that bit. Can you point me in the right direction for it.
Ta

Only to the three phone calls we received this summer when staying at Carnon Downs.

 

[sedge]

We were there 2 weeks ago & there were quite a few spare pitches midweek so I guess it’s the weekend fair weather block bookers who will lose out.

You know when you were young and still at work, did you not usually only go away for the weekend? I know we did. Most people do that, especially when they have children.

 

[Langtoftlad]

For sure 'some' will lose out.
Whether it will be the so called block bookers remains to be seen
Whether more less members lose out is also unknown.

 

[Mikey RV]

The changes being made are for the benefit of CAMC not the members just the same as the recently introduced 1 pm arrival times which at this time of year means a 25% reduction in daylight hours on arrival day. All their excuses about extra covid cleaning are just that. I haven’t seen anyone cleaning anymore thoroughly but have seen wardens having time for lunch before opening up & 1pm arrivals was introduced on some sites well before covid. Can’t wait to get back through the tunnel.

How dare they have time for lunch…..I hope you skipped your lunch to support them.

 

[Reallyretired]

Originally left the CC&M after staying on a site that was turning people away as they were fully booked, but had loads of spaces all weekdue to cancellations. All in favour of deposits but doubt if we will rejoin as we don't really miss them.

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