Burstner Wiring Loom

[DT9447]

A post I thought I'd share which might give some people hope in a time of despair.

A couple of years ago, Mum & Dads 10yr old or so Burstner Elegance 591 suddenly caught fire under the bonnet when dad performed his weekly ritual of turning the engine over on the drive. Dad was quick to act and put the fire out fairly quick, minimising the damage to the Loom only. Long and short of it, his insurance company told him he wasn't covered, they even broke bits off of it during transporting it to and from their loss assessors depot...thats another story! So, not covered by his LV motorhome policy due to fair wear and tear, a mechanic friend of theirs cut the loom out of the engine compartment, hacking it at several places and said he'd get it replaced. The loom was obsolete and could not be purchased. So, mum and dad had what was until then a £25k motorhome, with a melted loom that had been removed badly.

Having a can do attitude I told them not to worry, I'll find someone to fix it. It turns absolutely no one and I mean no one would touch it or entertain a repair etc, even Fiat and Burstner backed away. Seeing mum and dads total despair I laid it out, pinned it down on a board (on the kitchen table) marked up cables, created a 3 page colour code matrix, ordered £400 worth of wires, connectors, heat shrink and tools and set about rebuilding it.

It took some 90+ hours over a couple of weeks, I think there were some 80 cables to repair/replace and then reconnect (so 160 odd new connections) then the ends of the loom had to be joined to the places it had been hacked off from back on the MH, so another 80 or so connections in the engine bay, under the engine & behind the dash)

It was a success and the moment dad tuned over the engine for the first time since the fire was priceless, first terror, aprehension, then total joy. So this post is put out there just to give those in despair, some hope that everything is possible.

This isn't an advert by the way as this isn't something I'd chose to do again

 

[Lenny HB]

Well done, super job.
Something I would have done years ago but I don't have the patience now.

 

[B+W vanman]

A post I thought I'd share which might give some people hope in a time of despair.

A couple of years ago, Mum & Dads 10yr old or so Burstner Elegance 591 suddenly caught fire under the bonnet when dad performed his weekly ritual of turning the engine over on the drive. Dad was quick to act and put the fire out fairly quick, minimising the damage to the Loom only. Long and short of it, his insurance company told him he wasn't covered, they even broke bits off of it during transporting it to and from their loss assessors depot...thats another story! So, not covered by his LV motorhome policy due to fair wear and tear, a mechanic friend of theirs cut the loom out of the engine compartment, hacking it at several places and said he'd get it replaced. The loom was obsolete and could not be purchased. So, mum and dad had what was until then a £25k motorhome, with a melted loom that had been removed badly.

Having a can do attitude I told them not to worry, I'll find someone to fix it. It turns absolutely no one and I mean no one would touch it or entertain a repair etc, even Fiat and Burstner backed away. Seeing mum and dads total despair I laid it out, pinned it down on a board (on the kitchen table) marked up cables, created a 3 page colour code matrix, ordered £400 worth of wires, connectors, heat shrink and tools and set about rebuilding it.

It took some 90+ hours over a couple of weeks, I think there were some 80 cables to repair/replace and then reconnect (so 160 odd new connections) then the ends of the loom had to be joined to the places it had been hacked off from back on the MH, so another 80 or so connections in the engine bay, under the engine & behind the dash)

It was a success and the moment dad tuned over the engine for the first time since the fire was priceless, first terror, aprehension, then total joy. So this post is put out there just to give those in despair, some hope that everything is possible.

This isn't an advert by the way as this isn't something I'd chose to do again View attachment 1004358View attachment 1004359View attachment 1004360View attachment 1004361View attachment 1004362View attachment 1004363View attachment 1004364View attachment 1004365View attachment 1004366View attachment 1004367View attachment 1004368View attachment 1004369View attachment 1004370View attachment 1004371

Err….are you frightened of man-hugs?

 

[Figaro]

Just wow, That's amazing, your father must be over the moon to have his motorhome back.
Did you find the cause of the fire ?
On what grounds did LV refuse to accept a claim, I fail to see how "fair wear and tear" can be applied to a wiring loom ?
It must have been daunting at first but well done for seeing it through

 

[AlunandFelicie]

Brilliant well done you

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[LittleGreyCat]

Ducato wiring looms are prone to failure.
We had intermittent problems with our 2002 plate Hymer B544.
Didn't realise you could replace the whole loom at the time.

 

[mapman55]

Fantastic job, we’ll done

 

[Mikey RV]

Well done to you. I have trouble wiring a plug because it’s got more than one wire.

 

[KNWH]

Brilliant job, well done.
Just a note of caution for anyone considering handling burnt cables.
There are lots of scare stories around about the dangers of hydrofluoric acid being produced when cable insulation burns.
I don’t know how real this threat is, but given how dangerous HF acid can be I would always be very careful just in case.
If this is scaremongering, then happy to be proved wrong.

 

[gus-lopez]

On what grounds did LV refuse to accept a claim, I fail to see how "fair wear and tear" can be applied to a wiring loom ?

This ^^^^^^



Excellent work . Dad must be made up. I once had similar on an ecu wiring loom under floor & through bulk head but that was only about 15 wires & that was bad enough

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[Lenny HB]

I did repair my mates rear wiring loom on his e line Carthago last year after Foxes chewed through it. That was 15 wires not much fun lying under the van doing it.

 

[KNWH]

I had to do a complete wiring loom when I built a car from scratch years ago (not a kit)
Wiring of central console below.
More pictures of full build on Jim’s thread @Top selling cars in 1976 posts #66 and #68 if you’re interested.
Not sure if putting @ before a thread name is how you do a link?

 

[jockaneezer]

Brilliant job, well done.
Just a note of caution for anyone considering handling burnt cables.
There are lots of scare stories around about the dangers of hydrofluoric acid being produced when cable insulation burns.
I don’t know how real this threat is, but given how dangerous HF acid can be I would always be very careful just in case.
If this is scaremongering, then happy to be proved wrong.

Interesting note on the HF acid in cables, I had heard it could be problematic in O rings that had been subject to high temps such as a vehicle fire, but wasn't aware of the cable issue ?
We used a lot of HFA at the last place I worked, mainly for surface etching on aluminium packaging before it got painted. We had it delivered in 1000 litre totes and during a routine H&S visit from the Fire Brigade, the guy nearly had a fit when he saw how much we had as they didn't keep much stock of the "antidote" in case of spills !
One lad did get a minor spill on his arm and was rushed to Newcastle's RVI for treatment and had to make frequent visits to monitor it as it can eat away at bone for some time after exposure.

 

[stevewagner]

Fantastic job and just shows what can be done. With a lot of patience of course!

 

[KNWH]

Interesting note on the HF acid in cables, I had heard it could be problematic in O rings that had been subject to high temps such as a vehicle fire, but wasn't aware of the cable issue ?
We used a lot of HFA at the last place I worked, mainly for surface etching on aluminium packaging before it got painted. We had it delivered in 1000 litre totes and during a routine H&S visit from the Fire Brigade, the guy nearly had a fit when he saw how much we had as they didn't keep much stock of the "antidote" in case of spills !
One lad did get a minor spill on his arm and was rushed to Newcastle's RVI for treatment and had to make frequent visits to monitor it as it can eat away at bone for some time after exposure.

I think Haynes put a warning about it in the front of all their manuals these days.

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[DT9447]

Just wow, That's amazing, your father must be over the moon to have his motorhome back.
Did you find the cause of the fire ?
On what grounds did LV refuse to accept a claim, I fail to see how "fair wear and tear" can be applied to a wiring loom ?
It must have been daunting at first but well done for seeing it through

Cheers, yes he was so happy.

LV said electric faults were not covered under the policy (or words to that effect) I checked and the wording was certainly in there, however I would have stood my ground and fought that myself as ‘fire’ is covered - unfortunately by the time I’d got involved the mechanic friend had cut out the loom thinking that was their only option so it would have then been very difficult to fight due to the damage caused chopping it out.

Dad thought (and still thinks) it was rodents chewing through the cables (which may have been covered under the policy) But we’ll never know

 

[DT9447]

Fantastic job and just shows what can be done. With a lot of patience of course!

Thanks, yes it took patience that’s for sure, from my wife too as the kitchen table was turned into a work bench

 

[DT9447]

Well done, super job.
Something I would have done years ago but I don't have the patience now.

Thanks, I gave up on repairing a pair of GHD straighteners last week though (felt so useless)

 

[DT9447]

Err….are you frightened of man-hugs?

Never

 

[DT9447]

Brilliant well done you

Thank you

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[DT9447]

This ^^^^^^



Excellent work . Dad must be made up. I once had similar on an ecu wiring loom under floor & through bulk head but that was only about 15 wires & that was bad enough

determination 15 would have been stressful too! Especially through the bulkhead

 

[DT9447]

I had to do a complete wiring loom when I built a car from scratch years ago (not a kit)
Wiring of central console below.
More pictures of full build on Jim’s thread @Top selling cars in 1976 posts #66 and #68 if you’re interested.
Not sure if putting @ before a thread name is how you do a link?

View attachment 1004647

Tidy

 

[DT9447]

I did repair my mates rear wiring loom on his e line Carthago last year after Foxes chewed through it. That was 15 wires not much fun lying under the van doing it.

Hero (and j know lol )
After repairing the loom, it had to be put back in, and that’s when I realised the repair bit was easy (physically). Laying under the van, in the engine compartment and bulkhead crimping and heat wrapping had me saying a few rude words

 

[DT9447]

Well done to you. I have trouble wiring a plug because it’s got more than one wire.

 

[DT9447]

Brilliant job, well done.
Just a note of caution for anyone considering handling burnt cables.
There are lots of scare stories around about the dangers of hydrofluoric acid being produced when cable insulation burns.
I don’t know how real this threat is, but given how dangerous HF acid can be I would always be very careful just in case.
If this is scaremongering, then happy to be proved wrong.

That’s quite scary and something I was aware of when in the fire service but only as far as gasses being released from car fires so had to wear breathing apparatus (once we knew!), I wasn’t aware about skin contact though. All my fingers and thumbs are still intact thankfully.
Good cautionary note though for sure

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[Lenny HB]

That’s quite scary and something I was aware of when in the fire service but only as far as gasses being released from car fires so had to wear breathing apparatus (once we knew!), I wasn’t aware about skin contact though. All my fingers and thumbs are still intact thankfully.
Good cautionary note though for sure

A big problem with cars were the flexible brake pipes, they release hydrofluoric acid when burnt.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

A post I thought I'd share which might give some people hope in a time of despair.

A couple of years ago, Mum & Dads 10yr old or so Burstner Elegance 591 suddenly caught fire under the bonnet when dad performed his weekly ritual of turning the engine over on the drive. Dad was quick to act and put the fire out fairly quick, minimising the damage to the Loom only. Long and short of it, his insurance company told him he wasn't covered, they even broke bits off of it during transporting it to and from their loss assessors depot...thats another story! So, not covered by his LV motorhome policy due to fair wear and tear, a mechanic friend of theirs cut the loom out of the engine compartment, hacking it at several places and said he'd get it replaced. The loom was obsolete and could not be purchased. So, mum and dad had what was until then a £25k motorhome, with a melted loom that had been removed badly.

Having a can do attitude I told them not to worry, I'll find someone to fix it. It turns absolutely no one and I mean no one would touch it or entertain a repair etc, even Fiat and Burstner backed away. Seeing mum and dads total despair I laid it out, pinned it down on a board (on the kitchen table) marked up cables, created a 3 page colour code matrix, ordered £400 worth of wires, connectors, heat shrink and tools and set about rebuilding it.

It took some 90+ hours over a couple of weeks, I think there were some 80 cables to repair/replace and then reconnect (so 160 odd new connections) then the ends of the loom had to be joined to the places it had been hacked off from back on the MH, so another 80 or so connections in the engine bay, under the engine & behind the dash)

It was a success and the moment dad tuned over the engine for the first time since the fire was priceless, first terror, aprehension, then total joy. So this post is put out there just to give those in despair, some hope that everything is possible.

This isn't an advert by the way as this isn't something I'd chose to do again View attachment 1004358View attachment 1004359View attachment 1004360View attachment 1004361View attachment 1004362View attachment 1004363View attachment 1004364View attachment 1004365View attachment 1004366View attachment 1004367View attachment 1004368View attachment 1004369View attachment 1004370

Great job, well done
It reminds me of a similar situation many years ago where someone I know specialised in diesel conversions in Range Rovers (the boxy ones from the seventies and eighties). He bought a 325 BMW straight six engine and loom and his mate was going to adapt it to fit but for some reason decided to shorten it by cutting 4 pieces out of the middle with a hacksaw and suddenly went off radar.
The owner then asked me to see what I could do and I remember it taking well over 80 hrs to reconnect all the cut wires and splice in the original loom feeds ect. Along with some mechanical/electrical adaptions for the fly by wire throttle it worked a treat once installed. This was a couple of years before the factory fitted the 3ltr version into the P38 Range Rover.
Never did any more as the labour cost wasn’t worthwhile.

 

[KNWH]

Remember when cars didn’t have electronics, just electrics?
Distributer with rotor arm and points?
Carburettor?
Cable drive for the speedometer and odometer?
Things were always going wrong, but you could always repair them.
Happy days

On the first (Imp based) car I built I regularly went round scrapyards looking for bits to use.
I couldn’t find a hazard warning light unit. No problem I thought, plenty of the old electro-mechanical indicator light units around. I’ll use one for the left indicators and another for the right indicators and switch them both on for the hazards.
What I hadn’t anticipated was that they would have slightly different flash rates. They would start off in sync but gradually get out of phase

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Remember when cars didn’t have electronics, just electrics?
Distributer with rotor arm and points?
Carburettor?
Cable drive for the speedometer and odometer?
Things were always going wrong, but you could always repair them.
Happy days

On the first (Imp based) car I built I regularly went round scrapyards looking for bits to use.
I couldn’t find a hazard warning light unit. No problem I thought, plenty of the old electro-mechanical indicator light units around. I’ll use one for the left indicators and another for the right indicators and switch them both on for the hazards.
What I hadn’t anticipated was that they would have slightly different flash rates. They would start off in sync but gradually get out of phase

I spent many Saturday mornings at the local car breaker’s scrapyard looking for original fit switches, gauges and Cibie lights etc for the cheap as chips modifications
Just fit it and no hassle with coding like the modern ones

 

[DT9447]

Great job, well done
It reminds me of a similar situation many years ago where someone I know specialised in diesel conversions in Range Rovers (the boxy ones from the seventies and eighties). He bought a 325 BMW straight six engine and loom and his mate was going to adapt it to fit but for some reason decided to shorten it by cutting 4 pieces out of the middle with a hacksaw and suddenly went off radar.
The owner then asked me to see what I could do and I remember it taking well over 80 hrs to reconnect all the cut wires and splice in the original loom feeds ect. Along with some mechanical/electrical adaptions for the fly by wire throttle it worked a treat once installed. This was a couple of years before the factory fitted the 3ltr version into the P38 Range Rover.
Never did any more as the labour cost wasn’t worthwhile.

This may have been the same Hacksaw fiend
I did think there must be a niche in the market after getting knock backs from so many auto electricians, loom makers, custom car builders...and more. But like you say, the labour cost would end up more expensive than replacing the MH

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