British Government Discriminate against Technifobes

[tuscancouple]

Hi Mick my mum is 86 and uses both iPad and smart phone too, but if others can’t do it does that mean they are beyond our help?

No not at all. I think it's important that people accept that this is the way things will be and if they need help, to seek it sooner rather than later, i.e. get up to speed with the basics before the knowledge is really needed.

Mick

 

[gus-lopez]

She would have preferred that everyone is quarantined in a hotel ,like Australia.

But that would open up a probably even worse can of worms as people,like me,who would comply with any rugulations in force at present certainly wouldn't be paying for my own accommodation whilst the government is not castigating the chinese on an hourly basis or even bombing them..

a government gateway ID even to do with pensions etc or not even any form of connection?

You used to be able to do it on a one off basis. I never had a gov gateway password until nov 2019.

 

[Tombola]

You used to be able to do it on a one off basis. I never had a gov gateway password until nov 2019.

and I see now you can sign in the Govt gateway by using a post office account

 

[Brains]

Brains yes IT can frighten some people , I spent 5 hours yesterday converting files extensions for a neighbour who is passing the treasurers files for a club to another frightened person, this one cannot open Open Office files with Microsoft office...any way I was given an external drive that despite many tries, by the owner, with many usb cables , would not work.... they forgot it needs a 12v supply as well....now all perfect......ARGH

I fully appreciate IT can frighten people, including me!

Running clubs is now almost totally computer based, and any still running on paper will be time limited, as HRMC are now beginning to crack down or things like gift aid and charity status.
I'm currently advising the treasurers of at least 6 Scout groups how to collect membership fees, some of which are people on the other side of the country that I have never met.

I spent many years teaching IT to an older generation, (back in those days some of the older people were the over 30's!)

I was involved right from the first green CRT screens that started to appear in offices in the late 70's to 'new' windows 95 PC's and getting people to learn to use a mouse by playing minesweeper, and then touch screen mobile Apple products of the last 5 years.

I spent many months with young designers, getting them to add big buttons in bright colours to applications, and then testing the design on real users to see where they missed the instruction, or had to search for it as is was not in a logical place (for them).

I appreciate, that one day it will be me that can't be bothered with the next level of computer integration, when it involves reading my thoughts but hopefully my personal robot will do that for me

But as I said earlier, self imposed digital poverty is no longer an excuse.
The Governments of the western world have followed the companies and the education systems and now gone almost completely digital, and if you don't want to deal with that, it's your problem, not theirs.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

But that would open up a probably even worse can of worms as people,like me,who would comply with any rugulations in force at present certainly wouldn't be paying for my own accommodation whilst the government is not castigating the chinese on an hourly basis or even bombing them..

You used to be able to do it on a one off basis. I never had a gov gateway password until nov 2019.

As a border agent she was concerned that some people were not complying to the govt "guidelines" ie filling in the track and trace documents,refusing to say where they were staying and just paying the fine ,some not having a negative covid certificate ,some she said could have been fake or in a language they did not understand.she said she was frightened as their powers were restricted.Thatscwhy she preferred the Australian hotel quarantine method.dictated by the Australian govt. And supported in law.

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[spitfire]

As a border agent she was concerned that some people were not complying to the govt "guidelines" ie filling in the track and trace documents,refusing to say where they were staying and just paying the fine ,some not having a negative covid certificate ,some she said could have been fake or in a language they did not understand.she said she was frightened as their powers were restricted.Thatscwhy she preferred the Australian hotel quarantine method.dictated by the Australian govt. And supported in law.

I would say Aussie method works well . Only problem was in Melbourne but only because the security at the hotels was lax as they used a security company and not police like the other states . They have now been free from community transmission for over 2 months and life is pretty much near normal .

 

[Rivermount]

I have a mother in law who will happily use Facebook and Messenger to comment and communicate with friends and relatives using an android tablet, but that is her limit. She has an email address and will look at emails received but rarely if ever will actually write an email, and if she does it will only be to her family. She will not do internet banking or fill in online forms etc. Reasons? Fear......fear of all these things she hears on the tv about scammers and viruses. She does not understand the technology and is only happy in her limits, although that worries us when she picks up random "friends of friends" at times. We have to respect that it is a generation where there is an awful lot of people who cannot understand their television settings let alone the digital world. The number of times we have been called to sort out her television because she has accidentally pressed a button she does not understand. As for a mobile phone, that is definitely a no no, even a non smart phone!! Logic? There is none. I have offered to help, show her, guide her but it is met with a flat refusal and a request for us to do it for her, she says she is too old to learn now and it frightens her.
My late mother was the same, she was originally an office worker/secretary. She was used to manual typewriters, progressed to electronic typewriters and then the computer, but she relied on others to do updates, to ensure settings were correct, she just used it, she didn't understand it but managed because she was told, press this button, press that button. As she went in to retirement and got older she did not have that support readily at hand and then became more and more fearful of what she heard about on tv and the radio, because she did not understand. She did try, she went to some silver surfer classes but found that was of no use as it was little more than press this and that.
Yes we can say people must move with the times, but unless you worked in an environment that encouraged a proper understanding of digital development, you looking at a generation that are in the same boat as those who have no car maintenance understanding or how to use power tools, or who cannot communicate in a foreign language.
Recognition of this fact does need to be addressed for a while longer. Sadly the decisions made are often by those who have grown up in a digital world and so they have no understanding of the plight of some of the older generation.

 

[suavecarve]

As luck would have it I happened to see a chap fall over and bust his nose and cheek up whilst teaching daughter to ride her bike yesterday.
Claret all over the place but I forgot to put a report on about what we did so went in today and had to look the geezer up on the computer to see who he was.
He had about 6 sets of letters behind (one of the being CBE) his name then found out he has quite a big wikipedia page but the reason for writing this on this post is

He is the man that foresaw the use of the computers for the Government and created the systems we now use which were first created in the 80s.

(Some of the more observant will notice his 4 year old daughter and he was a clever geezer in the 80s.....yes I thought it was his granddaughter at one stage but he let me off)

 

[Ukbandit]

I have a mother in law who will happily use Facebook and Messenger to comment and communicate with friends and relatives using an android tablet, but that is her limit. She has an email address and will look at emails received but rarely if ever will actually write an email, and if she does it will only be to her family. She will not do internet banking or fill in online forms etc. Reasons? Fear......fear of all these things she hears on the tv about scammers and viruses. She does not understand the technology and is only happy in her limits, although that worries us when she picks up random "friends of friends" at times. We have to respect that it is a generation where there is an awful lot of people who cannot understand their television settings let alone the digital world. The number of times we have been called to sort out her television because she has accidentally pressed a button she does not understand. As for a mobile phone, that is definitely a no no, even a non smart phone!! Logic? There is none. I have offered to help, show her, guide her but it is met with a flat refusal and a request for us to do it for her, she says she is too old to learn now and it frightens her.
My late mother was the same, she was originally an office worker/secretary. She was used to manual typewriters, progressed to electronic typewriters and then the computer, but she relied on others to do updates, to ensure settings were correct, she just used it, she didn't understand it but managed because she was told, press this button, press that button. As she went in to retirement and got older she did not have that support readily at hand and then became more and more fearful of what she heard about on tv and the radio, because she did not understand. She did try, she went to some silver surfer classes but found that was of no use as it was little more than press this and that.
Yes we can say people must move with the times, but unless you worked in an environment that encouraged a proper understanding of digital development, you looking at a generation that are in the same boat as those who have no car maintenance understanding or how to use power tools, or who cannot communicate in a foreign language.
Recognition of this fact does need to be addressed for a while longer. Sadly the decisions made are often by those who have grown up in a digital world and so they have no understanding of the plight of some of the older generation.

Wish I could have articulated it that way instead of getting sent to Coventry, but alas some people need to hear the truth put simply.
thanks for that wonderful response.

 

[Coolcats]

I fully appreciate IT can frighten people, including me!

Running clubs is now almost totally computer based, and any still running on paper will be time limited, as HRMC are now beginning to crack down or things like gift aid and charity status.
I'm currently advising the treasurers of at least 6 Scout groups how to collect membership fees, some of which are people on the other side of the country that I have never met.

I spent many years teaching IT to an older generation, (back in those days some of the older people were the over 30's!)

I was involved right from the first green CRT screens that started to appear in offices in the late 70's to 'new' windows 95 PC's and getting people to learn to use a mouse by playing minesweeper, and then touch screen mobile Apple products of the last 5 years.

I spent many months with young designers, getting them to add big buttons in bright colours to applications, and then testing the design on real users to see where they missed the instruction, or had to search for it as is was not in a logical place (for them).

I appreciate, that one day it will be me that can't be bothered with the next level of computer integration, when it involves reading my thoughts but hopefully my personal robot will do that for me

But as I said earlier, self imposed digital poverty is no longer an excuse.
The Governments of the western world have followed the companies and the education systems and now gone almost completely digital, and if you don't want to deal with that, it's your problem, not theirs.

I tend to agree with you, most things in life can be made easier using IT. The trick is to choose what enhances and enriches your life. Whilst I have stated I cannot see the point of W3W others have embraced it with enthusiasm which is fine my choice is gps. Some still prefer a printed paper to digital news or a paper book to an e reader. You mention clubs using technology for membership monies can be collected by something like stripe but costs 1.5% or eola which costs 4%. Cash costs nothing to collect and bank except the invisible costs of taking the money to a bank, you normally have to pay to park and the time to do so. So I can see many more clubs going electronic banking. It is becoming very difficult to avoid being connected it’s not impossible but makes life much harder.

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[Ivory55]

Out of interest, how do they get their ferry tickets?

I think you can only get the discount for older people on the phone for the new haven/ Dieppe route.

 

[Brains]

I tend to agree with you, most things in life can be made easier using IT. The trick is to choose what enhances and enriches your life. Whilst I have stated I cannot see the point of W3W others have embraced it with enthusiasm which is fine my choice is gps. Some still prefer a printed paper to digital news or a paper book to an e reader. You mention clubs using technology for membership monies can be collected by something like stripe but costs 1.5% or eola which costs 4%. Cash costs nothing to collect and bank except the invisible costs of taking the money to a bank, you normally have to pay to park and the time to do so. So I can see many more clubs going electronic banking. It is becoming very difficult to avoid being connected it’s not impossible but makes life much harder.

I would disagree on the 'Cash costs nothing to collect'

The problem with cash is it needs to be collected, in the case of a club it means multiple small payments, all of which have to be manually entered, one by one, in a payment book/spreadsheet/database to say who paid what and when.
You then have the 'chasing up' problem, where some people pay late, or don't pay at all.
The other problem with cash is it never adds up! - for some reason you always seem to have slightly more ort less money than you should !
Then the is the visit to the bank to count it all up and to pay it all in.

With an online payment system, it's very simple (once you have set it up!)
They pay, when and how they like, everything else then flows through automatically
In the case of an event run by the club, they are given a deadline to pay in full, and if they miss it, they don't get a ticket, no last minute people turning up unexpectedly

The fees for dealing with online payments are now around 4%, however given the cost of dealing with cash, this is still seen as the cheaper option.

 

[Vanderek]

Out of interest, how do they get their ferry tickets?

As a comparison , when the first lockdown restrictions occurred the CAMH Club or CC Club did a video of how they were introducing an arrival system that was paperless, however they said many members preferred paper tickets, that had to be posted out for arrivals or cancellations etc etc..

 

[Coolcats]

I would disagree on the 'Cash costs nothing to collect'

The problem with cash is it needs to be collected, in the case of a club it means multiple small payments, all of which have to be manually entered, one by one, in a payment book/spreadsheet/database to say who paid what and when.
You then have the 'chasing up' problem, where some people pay late, or don't pay at all.
The other problem with cash is it never adds up! - for some reason you always seem to have slightly more ort less money than you should !
Then the is the visit to the bank to count it all up and to pay it all in.

With an online payment system, it's very simple (once you have set it up!)
They pay, when and how they like, everything else then flows through automatically
In the case of an event run by the club, they are given a deadline to pay in full, and if they miss it, they don't get a ticket, no last minute people turning up unexpectedly

The fees for dealing with online payments are now around 4%, however given the cost of dealing with cash, this is still seen as the cheaper option.

Not disagreeing with you and whilst I did not outline all the negatives some clubs believe on-line payments are a cost rather than a benefit, clubs should still be able to take cash or card iZettle for example is 1.75% for a card payment stripe is 1.4%+20p<Broken link removed> and give a host of features for clubs and businesses. It makes it easier for a club treasure or accountant but they would still need to manage an incomes and outgoings finance spread sheet.

I think the issue is that some clubs are resistant to any monies going elsewhere but still have the pain of managing. But time will change this as youngsters will not want to do it by quill and rightly so.