Bristol: van-dweller capital of UK (1 Viewer)

[Gromett]

Interesting article. It does make you wonder about the selling off of all the council houses and it's effect

I doubt that had much of an impact. The biggest problem has been the HUGE levels of immigration and the low levels of house building relative to this figure.
Too many people not enough houses. And now recently the government is punishing landlords who are now getting out of the market.

Perhaps we should reinstate the original concept of Rates (aka Council Tax)...
You pay tax based on the current rental value of your house...
Then whenever the rents in an area increase, the council gets a cash injection to assist building more homes and infrastructure.
Perhaps when house values go up through shortage of supply, homeowners should be thinking "sh!t, that's the tax going up 25%".
Perhaps NIMBYs would welcome new developments to keep the prices low, rather being invested in the shortage and the suffering of others.

That would not have the effect I think you think it will have. House prices will still go up, so renting tenants will be doubly punished by not only higher rent but by higher council tax.
I dislike council tax as it is a fixed cost that cannot be mitigated by the poor. It hurts the poor the most.

 

[iandsm]

I have no problem with people living full time in motorhomes or caravans but I have a very big problem with those who insist on having huge piles of junk outside and have no sense of respect for the area they are in. Which leads me to think that it's those types who will be emptying their black waste anywhere they feel like or using the surrounding as open toilets.

 

[The Wino]

I doubt that had much of an impact. The biggest problem has been the HUGE levels of immigration and the low levels of house building relative to this figure.
Too many people not enough houses. And now recently the government is punishing landlords who are now getting out of the market.

That would not have the effect I think you think it will have. House prices will still go up, so renting tenants will be doubly punished by not only higher rent but by higher council tax.
I dislike council tax as it is a fixed cost that cannot be mitigated by the poor. It hurts the poor the most.

The natural progression before council houses were sold was that people would rent a council house and when they wanted to buy move out into private housing meaning there was a constant demand for new private houses and a constant supply of council houses left vacant. Selling them off was bonkers in the way it was done. People who had the benefit of a social rent were sold the house at a quite often big discount and the proceeds were not allowed to be used to build new ones. The whole thing was a form of social engineering.
What alternative system would you have to replace council tax a local tax on a by the head basis like the poll tax would be more expensive for people in cheaper housing. One of the reasons that council tax is so expensive is the reduction in central government funding to local authorities I suspect that central government would like to claim it's not them doing the taxation!

 

[The Wino]

Any van dweller on a road like that for longer than a month should pay council tax. Why are they letting them stay for free?

On those grounds camping except on sites ought to be banned as it makes no difference in terms of local taxation if it's the same people every night or different ones who change area. Sites that pay buisness rates mean that is taken care of.

 

[EuroTrotters]

many families with both parents working can't afford to buy even a modest house or flat

my daughter , works full time , but still lives with us as she can't afford to buy or even rent a flat of her own .. a modest house where we live is over £300,000 .

Generally speaking mortgage applicants would need to be earning around £66,000 to £75,000 to afford a mortgage of £300,000....



the housing market is broken... it started when council houses were sold and councils were prohibited for using the money for building new social housing..

our village has dozens of empty houses, used as holiday lets and second homes .. local youngsters can never hope to buy in the village where they were born... this is happening all over the UK

in a word.. it is Wrong

and Sunak's answer ?

criminalise homelessness in a key crime bill this year.

Yes, I understand that to. But there are so many who could better themselves .

I am talking about complaining about their living accommodation in, even nice areas.

You can buy a one bed modern studio, £50,000 or brand new 2 bed mill apartment £99,000.

But you can’t get a mortgage on the social , I don’t think.

Yes, we have had our daughters and families live with us, boomerang children.

But all own their own homes now. My middle daughters husband always wanted to rent. I suggested they buy. But her husband said I didn’t know what I was taking about…..,

They now how a property rental portfolio .

I was helping a young guy out in Spain last week. He’s 23, just starting his own business. He has saved €50,000 deposit. He’s looking for a small studio/flat. Every time he finds one, cash buyers beat him to it. He needs a mortgage.

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[Jim]

On those grounds camping except on sites ought to be banned as it makes no difference in terms of local taxation

Actually if you stop on a site, say a farm site or CL for longer than a month and you are noticed by the council, then expect a council tax bill. I know Funsters who were caught out by this on long stays


Edit, wracking my brains, I know of at least two But I believe scotjimland was one of these in his Fulltiming days

 

[Bucket]

The natural progression before council houses were sold was that people would rent a council house and when they wanted to buy move out into private housing meaning there was a constant demand for new private houses and a constant supply of council houses left vacant. Selling them off was bonkers in the way it was done. People who had the benefit of a social rent were sold the house at a quite often big discount and the proceeds were not allowed to be used to build new ones. The whole thing was a form of social engineering.
What alternative system would you have to replace council tax a local tax on a by the head basis like the poll tax would be more expensive for people in cheaper housing. One of the reasons that council tax is so expensive is the reduction in central government funding to local authorities I suspect that central government would like to claim it's not them doing the taxation!

It's easy to forget the political reality of social housing. Prior to Maggie allowing right to buy, it was recognised by the left that they could build council estates in marginal areas and gain a favourable block vote. Right to buy mitigated some of this as homeowners are more likely to veer right.
I studied this while doing my post doc in Norwich, a classic case study. We also observed tricks like only advertising council jobs in Socialist Worker and the Guardian....

 

[Guigsy]

The total number of houses has roughly followed the increase in population over the past few decades, so population increase doesn't really account for the demand. I agree that it was a bad idea to sell off council houses, but that's not decreased the numbers available.

If you look into the numbers, there's more than enough houses in the UK. It's that a lot of houses are unoccupied. That's what's increased. There's a lot of second homes. There's a lot of foreign ownership, particularly in London. Boomers own a lot of holiday homes. A lot of homes where the parents passed away and the kids take years to sort out what they're doing with it. Couples that move on together, but keep two homes. It's estimated there are 1.5 million unoccupied residencies in the UK.

 

[Gromett]

The total number of houses has roughly followed the increase in population over the past few decades, so population increase doesn't really account for the demand.

Why the Census data shows we need to build more homes - Centre for Cities

Some parts of the UK are in dire need of new homes and the Census data shows why. Some parts of the UK are in dire need of new homes and the Census data shows why.

www.centreforcities.org

Also worth noting the growth of single vs couple households is growing rapidly.

 

[Gromett]

The total number of houses has roughly followed the increase in population over the past few decades, so population increase doesn't really account for the demand.

Then we have the almost 1.5M net immigration over the last 2 years. Tell me we built enough houses for that many people please?

The cause of Britain’s housing woes has been staring the Tories in the face

Having failed to control immigration, the Conservatives have also failed to provide for it

www.telegraph.co.uk

Just curious as to what stats you have to show that housing kept up with population growth? Not seen anyone claim that before.

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[Gromett]

Housing shortage of 600,000 as population grows, says Coventry – Mortgage Finance Gazette

England is facing a shortage of at least 600,000 new homes as population growth outpaces house building, according to new analysis from Coventry Building

www.mortgagefinancegazette.com

 

[Just smiffy]

Just heard on the radio, 5400+ immigrants this year so far and that’s just on the dinghy’s ….

 

[scotjimland]

Actually if you stop on a site, say a farm site or CL for longer than a month and you are noticed by the council, then expect a council tax bill. I know Funsters who were caught out by this on long stays


Edit, wracking my brains, I know of at least two But I believe scotjimland was one of these in his Fulltiming days

yes.. I was summoned by the council for non payment of council tax when staying on a CL in Colchester for more than 28 days .

Note.. they called it a caravan, when in fact it was a 36ft USRV .. ergo, a motorhome ,

but as we know, on the V5 a motorhome is called a 'motor caravan'


I kept the summons..

full story here

Council Tax and Full Timers

Caravan Times: Caravan owners at Throney Bay Park in Canvey Island are to be made to pay council tax after an investigation revealed that they were living there all year round. A total of 292 homes on the site will now be subject to the levy, with the remainder of more than 800 caravans...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[tacr2man]

Right to Buy sales and replacements, England: April 2021 to March 2022

www.gov.uk

Some interesting data ?

 

[The Wino]

Just heard on the radio, 5400+ immigrants this year so far and that’s just on the dinghy’s ….

If you compare that to Gromett figure of net immigration over the past two years of 1.5 million why is it anyone thinking immigration is the problem is so fixated on the dinghy sailors? Why is it the government whose policies have caused that 1.5 million figure are spending a fortune per head on assylum seekers with the Rwanda plan rather than housebuilding initiatives. If you reduced assylum seekers crossing the channel to half the current figure what percentage of total immigration would it be? The housing shortage is homegrown.

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[Barti Ddu]

Bristol rents are astronomical. Our daughter was paying nearly £700 a month for a room in a shared privately rented student house when she was at University, until she graduated last year.

We've overnighted a few times on Clifton Downs when we went to see her for the odd weekend.
Found that all the van, caravan, and converted horsebox and coach dwellers were friendly and respectful. Very little mess around and no noise or antisocial behaviour at night. The age and condition of many of the vehicles was pretty poor and I don't think many were doing it as a purely lifestyle choice, but out of necessity, especially in the winter. Heating and fresh water appeared to be the biggest challenges.

The housing market for young people in large parts of the country is unfortunately now broken.

 

[steve69]

Would help if the people tidied up, cleaned the area, maybe less graffiti, then they’d be more acceptable by locals, who knows.

I live in a less well-off area not far from Chester.
During Covid lockdowns, someone had the bright idea of starting a litter-pickers group on FB. Something to do during a walk. I joined this group a couple of years ago and actually enjoy a good walk & picking up discarded drinks-cans and bottles galore - using tongs to minimise back-bending and placing them in Council provided orange bin sacks..These are then left by the nearest council waste bin for collection. The system works very well as when one drives around the area, the lack of litter is noticeable.
The area may not be anything special to look at, but it would look far worse if it wasn't for our group.

 

[VXman]

What have they done to my home town?!!! We used to walk, play, relax up there on the Downs when I was a kid. Now look at it!

Still, I was thinking of spending a few days in Bristol in the Motorhome soon. I didn't fancy paying the £45 per night of the CAMC site - I guess this would make an alternative

 

[steve69]

The housing shortage is homegrown.

Of course it is. If you increase the population of any country by 15% over10 years and only increase the infrastructure (housing, hospitals, schools, transport etc) by about 3%, then who else is to blame other than the governments?

BTW, Dinghy sailors are illegal migrants - many with criminal intentions. That's why we are so concerned about them.

 

[VXman]

I have not watched all the video but the girl in the orange jumper claimed to have been a no blame eviction

OK

Then she states she had no savings

Understandable due to high rents

Then asked how much was the van

£19000

She needs a decent one to avoid the cost of repairs.

OK

£19,000 is a good deposit on a house in Wales

1000s commute to Bristol / over the bridge to work because of the higher wages (most of my working life I was one)

2 question

Where did the £19000 come from

Is it a life style choice

I met a lovely young couple last year who had renovated a canal boat .
Because they liked the lifestyle and could save to buy their own home at a faster rate.
In the area they wanted to live without paying rent.

There is no black and white answers.

I was having a discussion yesterday about a number of councils are not building or purchasing houses due to the right to buy regulations.

Get a house live in it on a cheap rent for a few years then buy it at 25% cheaper than market value.

And you can still sell on or rent out immediately

The policy needs looking at. More single household properties are needed. How many of us are sitting in properties with more bedrooms than we need ?

My son lives in Brighton. Self Employed/Freelance. His flat - a very small 2 bed cost £300,000. A deposit of £19,000 would not even be 10%. Even if a bank did agree to loan that amount to a first time buyer (unlikely and definingly a no to someone like my son with variable and unreliable income) the payments even over a 40 year mortgage would not be affordable.

Fortunately he has generous parents who subbed him their life savings/pension and he pays them back at an affordable rate -which means it will never be paid off in our life time!

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[EuroTrotters]

yes.. I was summoned by the council for non payment of council tax when staying on a CL in Colchester for more than 28 days .

Note.. they called it a caravan, when in fact it was a 36ft USRV .. ergo, a motorhome ,

but as we know, on the V5 a motorhome is called a 'motor caravan'


I kept the summons..
View attachment 881700


full story here

Council Tax and Full Timers

Caravan Times: Caravan owners at Throney Bay Park in Canvey Island are to be made to pay council tax after an investigation revealed that they were living there all year round. A total of 292 homes on the site will now be subject to the levy, with the remainder of more than 800 caravans...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

That’s cheap

Ours is £2,800

 

[tinkertaylor]

Probably due to the fact the media are very much based in the south of England, especially the times, after all gypsy's are all over the UK and that's what these van lifers are in affect.

Not to worry as the homeless are set to be criminalised by some new legislation anyway so that should sort it out, fine em. If they don't pay the fines then stick em in prison, we have the space.......It will show em, even if they did have a job they will then become unemployed after their annual CRB check fails, another master stroke of good government

Of course it is. If you increase the population of any country by 15% over10 years and only increase the infrastructure (housing, hospitals, schools, transport etc) by about 3%, then who else is to blame other than the governments?

BTW, Dinghy sailors are illegal migrants - many with criminal intentions. That's why we are so concerned about them.

So the vans are the dinghy sailors fault ?

 

[Silver-Fox]

Just let those migrants work while waiting for the glacial assylum system to process the application

Better still just stop them coming in.

Let’s sub contract it to the Poles.
They are quite good at stopping them and they have land borders

 

[Silver-Fox]

Surprise surprise, selling off council houses has come back to bite us all, who would have thought it, short term gain, long term pain.

Selling them wasnt/isn’t the issue.

Not being able to build more was the issue.

 

[Barti Ddu]

What have they done to my home town?!!! We used to walk, play, relax up there on the Downs when I was a kid. Now look at it!

Still, I was thinking of spending a few days in Bristol in the Motorhome soon. I didn't fancy paying the £45 per night of the CAMC site - I guess this would make an alternative

Give Clifton Downs a go!

In the summer there are still families picnicing on the Downs. University sporting clubs and societies use it all year round for games practice. There's a constant passage of joggers and dog walkers. It's a massive area, and the presence of a few dozen van dwellers doesn't really have much of an impact. It's a testament to the community really. Bristol is a very tolerant (if slightly anarchic) city.

On the various times we've overnighted on the Downs we've had no hassle. As well as the long-term van and caravan dwellers there's always been a handful of recreational campervaners and motorhomers in everything from smart VW T6s to newish coachbuilts. Ours is a couple of years old PVC and we had no concerns leaving it parked up.

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[Silver-Fox]

Any van dweller on a road like that for longer than a month should pay council tax. Why are they letting them stay for free?

They are paying road tax if they are legal.

If a caravan is sat on the road unhitched I believe that is illegal.

 

[VXman]

They are paying road tax if they are legal.

If a caravan is sat on the road unhitched I believe that is illegal.

Apparently not - https://www.safeguarduk.co.uk/carav...ou park a caravan,it isn't parked dangerously.

Anyway - I think the problem nowadays is that the powers that be don't want to be seem to make people homeless. You should see some of the 'permanent' camping spots homeless people in our town have set up near the shopping centre and the railway station. They are not moved on and their encampment gets bigger and bigger. 'Kind hearted' locals encourage it with the amount of food/drink/money they give them.

 

[dash300]

I see reading through this post that the immigration deniers are out again this April 1st!!!

 

[VXman]

I see reading through this post that the immigration deniers are out again this April 1st!!!

You need someone to deliver your takeaways!

 

[The Wino]

Actually if you stop on a site, say a farm site or CL for longer than a month and you are noticed by the council, then expect a council tax bill. I know Funsters who were caught out by this on long stays


Edit, wracking my brains, I know of at least two But I believe scotjimland was one of these in his Fulltiming days

But what happens if you stay in one place for a month then move to a different area through the year? You're not paying council tax anywhere but using some of the local services. As I say not so much of a problem if you're on a site as there's buisness rates but off site if you're going to charge people at the side of a road like in Bristol council tax the same should happen to anyone off site it could be done easily enough a tax disc in effect that allows parking overnight off sites.

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