Boiler and hot water showers

[TobyQuest]

Hi all,

Tested the boiler out for the first time and unfortunately the small pipes than run across it in an S-shape kind of way have cracks in and spray out water. Im guessing it previously froze from the previous owner.
Can these pipes be repaired or is it a case of just need a new boiler installed?
Where best to go in either of these cases?

Also I havent seen much talk about gas boilers on the forum. Does this mean many of you dont have heated showers in your MH, or you heat them some other way. Ideally Im referring to off-grid, not using AC shoreline power to power it in some way.

 

[Odd-no-more]

UPDATE: A local plumber came round to have a look today. Together we both took the boiler off and took it apart, then he soldered the 2 cracks good, we put it all back together again, mounted it, connected it and it works fine
£70
I dont think its as serious as some of you make out. The van is not an air tight box. Oxygen will always be coming in from the roof vent/ where the electric cables go to the battery in the belly locker and many other draughtly places. When cooking inside ill have the door open or the extractor fan on.
I will get a carbon monoxide alarm, theyre a good idea.

Pretty much everyone has open/close valves for the gas anyway right. Turn it on for a shower, then turn it off. No drama.

Im really happy to have hot water though. Makes such a difference for a morning shower

Glad it's working, was your plumber a Gas Safe engineer? If so, if he is happy you should be OK. If not you should still be worried. Definitely get a CO alarm asap. Search carbon monoxide deaths before you dismiss it, make sure you're safe

 

[138go]

According to HSE the boiler should be fitted with a sensor that will shut it down if it starts using all the oxygen in the room. The gas fire I have in the shed has a similar device and shuts the fire off if I have the door shut. If the place is well ventilated you should be ok. Adding an alarm near it would certainly be a good idea.

 

[Odd-no-more]

According to HSE the boiler should be fitted with a sensor that will shut it down if it starts using all the oxygen in the room. The gas fire I have in the shed has a similar device and shuts the fire off if I have the door shut. If the place is well ventilated you should be ok. Adding an alarm near it would certainly be a good idea.

From the look of the heater it does not have an atmospheric sensing device or even a flue. If it was in my van I would scrap it. The OP wants to use it so an alarm may save his life if it goes wrong. These things can work ok for years then fail in a matter of minutes, all it takes is a bit of fluff in the mixing tube and it's game over.

 

[Minxy]

C'mon then Toby ... show us some photos of your lovely MH!

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[Minxy]

From the look of the heater it does not have an atmospheric sensing device or even a flue. If it was in my van I would scrap it. The OP wants to use it so an alarm may save his life if it goes wrong. These things can work ok for years then fail in a matter of minutes, all it takes is a bit of fluff in the mixing tube and it's game over.

In reality though IMV in order to cause issues like these he'd have to be having a VERY long shower by which time his water tank would have emptied before he got gassed, so more likely to end up still covered in soap with nothing to rinse it off rather than be gassed!

I can well understand them not being allowed in homes as they don't have the 'drop vents' etc that motorhomes do so the risk of fume build up would be much greater and the boiler in use for longer periods.

 

[Lenny HB]

From the look of the heater it does not have an atmospheric sensing device or even a flue. If it was in my van I would scrap it. The OP wants to use it so an alarm may save his life if it goes wrong. These things can work ok for years then fail in a matter of minutes, all it takes is a bit of fluff in the mixing tube and it's game over.

Agree silly to risk your life for a few quid. There have been quite a few deaths in holiday apartments using these heaters and there is a lot more fresh air available in an apartment.

 

[Odd-no-more]

In reality though IMV in order to cause issues like these he'd have to be having a VERY long shower by which time his water tank would have emptied before he got gassed, so more likely to end up still covered in soap with nothing to rinse it off rather than be gassed!

I can well understand them not being allowed in homes as they don't have the 'drop vents' etc that motorhomes do so the risk of fume build up would be much greater and the boiler in use for longer periods.

it's about safety, I'm not saying that this.heater is dangerous but that modern heaters are a lot safer. I have worn a seatbelt since the law came in, I've never had a crash so should I not bother to use a seatbelt any more.

If you look at fatalities caused by this type of water heater what often happens is when it gets cold people will block air vents also when one of these goes wrong it happens fast, once incomplete combustion starts it gets faster and faster as there is less and less oxygen. I am not saying the heater must not be used, only that I would not take the risk.

 

[Minxy]

it's about safety, I'm not saying that this.heater is dangerous but that modern heaters are a lot safer. I have worn a seatbelt since the law came in, I've never had a crash so should I not bother to use a seatbelt any more.

If you look at fatalities caused by this type of water heater what often happens is when it gets cold people will block air vents also when one of these goes wrong it happens fast, once incomplete combustion starts it gets faster and faster as there is less and less oxygen. I am not saying the heater must not be used, only that I would not take the risk.

I appreciate that some people may do silly things like block the vents but the OP knows the risks so he'll make sure he uses it safely.

As for the seatbelt comparison ... new MHs are safe than old ones, should we therefore not use old MHs?

 

[Minxy]

Agree silly to risk your life for a few quid. There have been quite a few deaths in holiday apartments using these heaters and there is a lot more fresh air available in an apartment.

I take your point Lenny but we're not talking about leaving the heater on for a long time which is what tends to happens in an apartment.

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[Landy Andy]

I appreciate that some people may do silly things like block the vents but the OP knows the risks so he'll make sure he uses it safely.

That’s all good until it gets sold.

 

[TobyQuest]

I'm not planning on selling it any time soon, so I think I'm all good. I agree, I won't be using the boiler for long at all, 7 mins max per day I would say and probably even if there's an issue with it, that won't be enough time for anything serious to happen and the gas will be turned off when not in use.
My guy wasn't gas safe registered I think. I can get someone who is to check it out though, eg habitation check our just a regular annual boiler service.
Looks like it doesn't have a flue

 

[TobyQuest]

I do have this alarm under the boiler near the water pump but I'm not sure what it's for. I have another one the same but yellow colour high up by the top bed area as well.

Shortly after turning either of them on they sound a constant alarm, even if I haven't been using the gas. Any ideas what they are, how to use them?

 

[Odd-no-more]

I've just looked this up under the Gas industry unsafe situations procedure.
The installation is "at risk" for several failings. So the plumber who repaired the heater has broken the law, either because he worked on a gas appliance without being registered with Gas Safe or because he returned an at risk appliance to service.

When I was working had I been called to this I would have issued a warning notice and done my best to get the customer to allow me to disconnect the appliance

 

[pappajohn]

The installation is "at risk" for several failings. So the plumber who repaired the heater has broken the law, either because he worked on a gas appliance without being registered with Gas Safe

And possibly not LPG QUALIFIED.
Different qualification to regular mains gas I believe.

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[Odd-no-more]

And possibly not LPG QUALIFIED.
Different qualification to regular mains gas I believe.

A different ACS element required, also leisure accommodation vehicles are an exta as well

 

[Ivory55]

Our plumber gave up working on static vans because of the extra cost of another corgi gas course and just does house mains gas boilers etc now. He decided that the amount of work he did was not worth spending on the course for what was mostly the same as what he had.

 

[tacr2man]

I think this is modern equivalent to what you have ,

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[chaser]

I do have this alarm under the boiler near the water pump but I'm not sure what it's for. I have another one the same but yellow colour high up by the top bed area as well.

Shortly after turning either of them on they sound a constant alarm, even if I haven't been using the gas. Any ideas what they are, how to use them?

Sorry ,everyone knows I am not one for spending money when no need to but you must take the crown here, god , don't know how you sleep at night in that van.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Our plumber gave up working on static vans because of the extra cost of another corgi gas course and just does house mains gas boilers etc now. He decided that the amount of work he did was not worth spending on the course for what was mostly the same as what he had.

I think the LPG element cost my boss over £1200, but we do a lot of LPG work. The rules are strange, we don't work on MOHOs but we have to take this element as they class some park homes as leisure accommodation vehicles even though they are not.

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[swiftsteve]

I had a similar heater in my 1st van (a 1987 talbot highwayman), The same pipes had split on mine. I just cut the split out and soldered a new section of pipe using a coupling each end. It worked fine after that. Most of the time there is only a pilot light alight, it doesn't store hot water; just heats it as it is pumped through.
I didn't give much of a thought to the gas side of things, but never smelt any gas, or fumes. I had a carbon monoxide alarm though.
I don't suggest anyone should do what I did, I'm not sure I would do the same now.
I'm still alive though in spite of my DIY.

 

[MisterB]

To the OP bet your sorry you asked now!


Although i didnt baulk at it being replaced or repaired, that was taking into account it having a flue and correct terminal and being checked over by a gas safe engineer.
If you have neither then i think you should start to think about how to remedy the situation. If you cant or dont want to then thats perhaps not the best course of action to take.

 

[walburga]

Had a Paloma instantaneous water heater in our (20 years ago) Talbot Camelot...best water heater ever!
Also had the exact same problem...frost damage to the same pipe. It's copper, and I repaired it by soldering a 'patch' over the leak.
Enjoy the van, and where's the pics?

Allen

 

[TobyQuest]

There's mixed opinions, seems some people have done DIY, of course my plumber did some too and its worked which is great, i can have hot showers. Turns out it was illegal...like so many things in life and yet Im still here to tell the tale.
I see it as very low risk. Someone mentioned they dont know how I can sleep in the van. Why?If the gas is switched off, what would be the reason not to?
Much bigger risks in dodgy or old wiring which can short out and start a fire and burn your whole vehicle down.
If I had more cash and more time I would have done it the proper way and fitted a new one. But I live balancing the risks/rewards of doing something and Im pretty pleased withhow it turned out. If my van explodes next time Im washing my hair, I'll know i made the wrong decision

 

[TobyQuest]

(posted twice oops)

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[Odd-no-more]

There's mixed opinions, seems some people have done DIY, of course my plumber did some too and its worked which is great, i can have hot showers. Turns out it was illegal...like so many things in life and yet Im still here to tell the tale.
I see it as very low risk. Someone mentioned they dont know how I can sleep in the van. Why?If the gas is switched off, what would be the reason not to?
Much bigger risks in dodgy or old wiring which can short out and start a fire and burn your whole vehicle down.
If I had more cash and more time I would have done it the proper way and fitted a new one. But I live balancing the risks/rewards of doing something and Im pretty pleased withhow it turned out. If my van explodes next time Im washing my hair, I'll know i made the wrong decision

Make sure it has plenty of ventilation and please get a carbon monoxide alarm. Good luck for your trip and keep posting.