Bikers not wanted at Winterton, Norfolk

I really thought the days of biker prejudice had gone, in a car park or the pub! The average biker now is a pleasure rider (or a commuter) and spends his / her hard earned cash on a nice bike and good gear.
The petrol station argument is a tricky one, I ride for a job and have to fill up 3 - 4 times most days, only twice in the last 3 years have I been asked to remove my hat and both times I have refused. The first one was after I had filled up and was trying to pay! "Please take your helmet off". "No" says I ... it went on for a long time and the lady threatened to call the cops.. "get on with it" said I. she finally realised she was looking a bit of a fool and took my credit card. The second was at a place local to me with a new member of staff and a long arguement followed... I didn't fill up and never will do again, in my car, MH or anything else I own. And neither will my mates. The arguement was about making everyone who covers their face / head remove the covering before filling up... I live near Birmingham which is a very diverse cultural city....
Taking yer hat off is a faff if you don't plan to stop and have a rest, in the winter it is a complete pain in the butt. The neck warmer has to be in the correct position and taking the gloves off for even 2 mins really does make a difference to the temperature of your hands, even with heated clothing. However when it's wet it is the worst!! Getting the gloves sealed under the jacket and the overgloves just right is an art form and not one I wish to repeat more than I have to.
I never understood phone holders with credit card "slots" until I did this job, in the winter I stick a "post it" note extender on my card and can fill up and pay without removing a piece of clothing.
Sorry for the rant... but discrimination of any sort is bad..
Having said all of that I obviously take my hat off when I go in the bank ... or the watch shops, to leave it on would be pushing it a bit :-)
 
RowleyBirkinQC said:
Yes, I do think it matters, as you appear to be assuming all crash helmet wearing motorcyclists are by default potential criminals from whom you should be kept safe.

From my perspective, having commuted by motorcycle pretty much all year round for decades, removal of the helmet to get fuel is a PITA. A crash helmet is not out of place being worn in a petrol station, but I agree that is not the case in a bank or other unrelated commercial premise.

Last time I checked, I’ve never ridden off without paying, not robbed anyone, not assaulted anyone or been involved in a criminal act whilst wearing a crash helmet, other than perhaps riding somewhat too briskly at times... :whistle:[/QUOTE
Click to expand...

I most certainly do not assume anything of the sort. Neither did I, or would I, suggest you ride off, robbed assaulted etc.

At the expense of lost custom, if I were running a business where staff have face to face contact with customers, often when working alone I would take all reasonable precautions to protect them and the business which would include CCTV and asking for the removal of helmers when a visor cannot be raised.[/QUOTE]
 
I always take my helmet off at a petrol station even when using pay at pump and whatever time of year it is. It's never occurred to me that I wouldn't want to.

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iandsm said:
I most certainly do not assume anything of the sort. Neither did I, or would I, suggest you ride off, robbed assaulted etc.

At the expense of lost custom, if I were running a business where staff have face to face contact with customers, often when working alone I would take all reasonable precautions to protect them and the business which would include CCTV and asking for the removal of helmers when a visor cannot be raised.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

I have to ask then, would you be asking a Berkha wearer to remove said item?
 
I flip my helmet to open face mode when approaching a garage. I pay at pump and never had a problem.

I think you'd have to be unfortunate enough to come across a right jobsworth to be asked to take it off.
 

I have to ask then, would you be asking a Berkha wearer to remove said item?[/QUOTE]

I would ask that any face covering was removed, however that which is worn or cultural or religious reasons if claimed by those who wear it might get me in some hot water if I asked for removal. As a business owner I would hope have the right to serve who I choose and not to serve others as I see fit. I wonder where a jeweller for example would stand if he placed a sign on the door that said. "No face covering of any kind are permitted in these premises"

Here is a letter to Tesco with an interesting reply.

Tescos and helmets


Published: 05 December 2007

Tesco again, in Kingsway, Dundee.Here is the emails I sent to Tesco and the replies I recieved.

Me: Dear Sir/Madam, On Saturday 9th of June I went into the Tesco garage, Kingsway, Dundee to purchase petrol for my motorcycle trip up North that day. When I had paid for my petrol I was informed by the young girl behind the counter that next time I purchased petrol I would have to remove my helmet before entering the garage shop. I was rather stunned by this statement and informed the assistant not to worry as in future I would take my business elsewhere.Before I take this decision though, I would like to know your policy on this matter. If it is for security reasons I can understand, but will the same practise be used on people wearing sunglasses, hats etc. or any other garment which may obscure their identity? Will Muslim women be allowed into the garage wearing veils? If this is not the case then I believe you may be breaching your 'business Ethics' by not 'treating customers in a fair and honest manner'.Now you may think that you can afford to lose my custom as I am a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of customers that walk through your doors every day. However, I also drive a car and I also spend in the region of £50 per week on groceries in Tesco. I am also involved in the community of bikers who tend to stick together as we are constantly discriminated against due to our mode of transport and this practise could see a few more of your customers going elsewhere also.I have favoured Tesco against other supermarkets in the area due to quality and choice but there is a new Morrison's store opening not far from where I live soon, so I eagerly await your reply on this matter.

Tesco: Thank you for your email. My apologies for any delay in responding. My people have informed me that Helmets are required to be removed for security reasons. We do not apply this policy to religious dress. Thank you for contacting us. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us at customer.service@tesco.co.uk quoting TES3687061X. Kind Regards Neil McGouldrickTesco Customer Service

Me: Can you please tell me why you do not apply this policy to religious dress as surely the issue of security should be aimed at everyone?

Tesco: Because a crash helmet may be seen as a security risk, which has been used to distort identification of wearer. It does not have any religious significance. However a veil is considered to be an ethnic symbol for a religious right. As Tesco do not discriminate on a religious, creed or colour basis, of employees or customers. Then this is seen as allowable in our stores. Unless the Law changes to outlaw this practice in public places. Then we will uphold a persons right to wear a veil in public places.Please see our policy section on tesco.com/corporate responsibility.
 
Just wear a burka on top of your crash helmet, it will make it easier cleaning the flies off it too.(y):D2
 
When I take my helmet off I'm down to my balaclava or a pair of the wife's old tights that certainly
stirs them up.:Grin:

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iandsm said:
I have to ask then, would you be asking a Berkha wearer to remove said item?
Click to expand...

I would ask that any face covering was removed, however that which is worn or cultural or religious reasons if claimed by those who wear it might get me in some hot water if I asked for removal. As a business owner I would hope have the right to serve who I choose and not to serve others as I see fit. I wonder where a jeweller for example would stand if he placed a sign on the door that said. "No face covering of any kind are permitted in these premises"

Here is a letter to Tesco with an interesting reply.

Tescos and helmets


Published: 05 December 2007

Tesco again, in Kingsway, Dundee.Here is the emails I sent to Tesco and the replies I recieved.

Me: Dear Sir/Madam, On Saturday 9th of June I went into the Tesco garage, Kingsway, Dundee to purchase petrol for my motorcycle trip up North that day. When I had paid for my petrol I was informed by the young girl behind the counter that next time I purchased petrol I would have to remove my helmet before entering the garage shop. I was rather stunned by this statement and informed the assistant not to worry as in future I would take my business elsewhere.Before I take this decision though, I would like to know your policy on this matter. If it is for security reasons I can understand, but will the same practise be used on people wearing sunglasses, hats etc. or any other garment which may obscure their identity? Will Muslim women be allowed into the garage wearing veils? If this is not the case then I believe you may be breaching your 'business Ethics' by not 'treating customers in a fair and honest manner'.Now you may think that you can afford to lose my custom as I am a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of customers that walk through your doors every day. However, I also drive a car and I also spend in the region of £50 per week on groceries in Tesco. I am also involved in the community of bikers who tend to stick together as we are constantly discriminated against due to our mode of transport and this practise could see a few more of your customers going elsewhere also.I have favoured Tesco against other supermarkets in the area due to quality and choice but there is a new Morrison's store opening not far from where I live soon, so I eagerly await your reply on this matter.

Tesco: Thank you for your email. My apologies for any delay in responding. My people have informed me that Helmets are required to be removed for security reasons. We do not apply this policy to religious dress. Thank you for contacting us. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us at customer.service@tesco.co.uk quoting TES3687061X. Kind Regards Neil McGouldrickTesco Customer Service

Me: Can you please tell me why you do not apply this policy to religious dress as surely the issue of security should be aimed at everyone?

Tesco: Because a crash helmet may be seen as a security risk, which has been used to distort identification of wearer. It does not have any religious significance. However a veil is considered to be an ethnic symbol for a religious right. As Tesco do not discriminate on a religious, creed or colour basis, of employees or customers. Then this is seen as allowable in our stores. Unless the Law changes to outlaw this practice in public places. Then we will uphold a persons right to wear a veil in public places.Please see our policy section on tesco.com/corporate responsibility.[/QUOTE]


I would suggest that you write back to Tescos and inform them that the Burka and any face veil worn by these people is NOT infact a religious symbol at all, it is however worn as instructed by the female's husband so as no other man can see her face.
 
robnchris said:
I would ask that any face covering was removed, however that which is worn or cultural or religious reasons if claimed by those who wear it might get me in some hot water if I asked for removal. As a business owner I would hope have the right to serve who I choose and not to serve others as I see fit. I wonder where a jeweller for example would stand if he placed a sign on the door that said. "No face covering of any kind are permitted in these premises"

Here is a letter to Tesco with an interesting reply.

Tescos and helmets


Published: 05 December 2007

Tesco again, in Kingsway, Dundee.Here is the emails I sent to Tesco and the replies I recieved.

Me: Dear Sir/Madam, On Saturday 9th of June I went into the Tesco garage, Kingsway, Dundee to purchase petrol for my motorcycle trip up North that day. When I had paid for my petrol I was informed by the young girl behind the counter that next time I purchased petrol I would have to remove my helmet before entering the garage shop. I was rather stunned by this statement and informed the assistant not to worry as in future I would take my business elsewhere.Before I take this decision though, I would like to know your policy on this matter. If it is for security reasons I can understand, but will the same practise be used on people wearing sunglasses, hats etc. or any other garment which may obscure their identity? Will Muslim women be allowed into the garage wearing veils? If this is not the case then I believe you may be breaching your 'business Ethics' by not 'treating customers in a fair and honest manner'.Now you may think that you can afford to lose my custom as I am a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of customers that walk through your doors every day. However, I also drive a car and I also spend in the region of £50 per week on groceries in Tesco. I am also involved in the community of bikers who tend to stick together as we are constantly discriminated against due to our mode of transport and this practise could see a few more of your customers going elsewhere also.I have favoured Tesco against other supermarkets in the area due to quality and choice but there is a new Morrison's store opening not far from where I live soon, so I eagerly await your reply on this matter.

Tesco: Thank you for your email. My apologies for any delay in responding. My people have informed me that Helmets are required to be removed for security reasons. We do not apply this policy to religious dress. Thank you for contacting us. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us at customer.service@tesco.co.uk quoting TES3687061X. Kind Regards Neil McGouldrickTesco Customer Service

Me: Can you please tell me why you do not apply this policy to religious dress as surely the issue of security should be aimed at everyone?

Tesco: Because a crash helmet may be seen as a security risk, which has been used to distort identification of wearer. It does not have any religious significance. However a veil is considered to be an ethnic symbol for a religious right. As Tesco do not discriminate on a religious, creed or colour basis, of employees or customers. Then this is seen as allowable in our stores. Unless the Law changes to outlaw this practice in public places. Then we will uphold a persons right to wear a veil in public places.Please see our policy section on tesco.com/corporate responsibility.
Click to expand...


I would suggest that you write back to Tescos and inform them that the Burka and any face veil worn by these people is NOT infact a religious symbol at all, it is however worn as instructed by the female's husband so as no other man can see her face.[/QUOTE]

I wont be writing back. The letter was not from me I just used it as an example of how Tesco see matters. Morrisons are the same I think
 
The letter was over a decade ago, I use Tesco’s fairly regularly to refuel, they haven’t asked me to remove my helmet. Nor do Sainsbury’s, BP, Esso or Shell around here. But there could be regional variation.
 
Don't think it's the Motorbike that's the problem, or the helmet, the problem is the person in the Kiosk.
We have been refused parking with the Motorhome, several years ago on a day when the large carpark was almost empty, reason "we don't allow caravans," explained the we are self contained no waste to be deposit , or mess left behind only wanted to stay a couple of hours for lunch and a walk on the beach, answer still NO .
Never been back plenty more places along the coast
 
A quick search online, and found some statistics from the metropolitan police showing just over 22,025 crimes enabled by scooters, mopeds and motorcycles from June 2017 to May 2018, 50% more than the same period in 2016/17,

I have no idea how that corresponds to other crime but to me that sounds a lot.
And would make me more cautious when confronted by a helmet wearing person.

Yes it's to easy to tar everyone with the same brush, but that's the world we now live in.

I'm not a motorcycle owner.

Shawn

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shawn&emma said:
A quick search online, and found some statistics from the metropolitan police showing just over 22,025 crimes enabled by scooters, mopeds and motorcycles from June 2017 to May 2018, 50% more than the same period in 2016/17,

I have no idea how that corresponds to other crime but to me that sounds a lot.
And would make me more cautious when confronted by a helmet wearing person.

Yes it's to easy to tar everyone with the same brush, but that's the world we now live in.

I'm not a motorcycle owner.

Shawn
Click to expand...
As you you say, Metropolitan Police, where there is a known issue with “moped” related crime.

Is that mostly street crime, snatching valuables such as phones and handbags or raiding jewellers with hammers etc, as opposed to the regular public refuelling at petrol stations?

Context and perspective is important.
 
possibly an urban myth, but a number of years ago a couple of bikers were refused service at a hotel. Came back with a group of friends all bikers, but in their cars, suitably dressed. Ordered 3 course meals and just as they were about to be served announced that they had just seen the notice saying no bikers, as they were all bikers they would have to leave. got up and walked out, am sure i read this in MCN.
 
Yorick said:
Then you shouldn't be riding if your fingers are too cold to use brake etc....
Click to expand...
What get off and leave it and walk ? They would work as one lump plus the rear brakes are operated by your foot.
 
A petrol station (or any business) can make whatever rules it wants, so long as they are legal.

Like it or lump it :)
 
Yorick said:
A petrol station (or any business) can make whatever rules it wants, so long as they are legal.

Like it or lump it :)
Click to expand...

That being the case why did a cake shop get found guilty for discrimination for not making a cake for a gay couple?

Their shop their rules :rolleyes:
 
RowleyBirkinQC said:
The letter was over a decade ago, I use Tesco’s fairly regularly to refuel, they haven’t asked me to remove my helmet. Nor do Sainsbury’s, BP, Esso or Shell around here. But there could be regional variation.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there are variations, I don't know. I expect it depends on what part of the country you happen to be in.

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Silver-Fox said:
That being the case why did a cake shop get found guilty for discrimination for not making a cake for a gay couple?

Their shop their rules :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Because they were a bit silly with how they went about it.

I refuse to do work for people that I don't like but I'm not stupid enough to give reasons that would break existing laws.

There is no law anywhere that says any business has to accept any work or customers that it doesn't want to.
 
When reading some threads one could be forgiven in thinking people on here never do anything wrong, lead perfect lives , and have stacks of money. What different worlds we all live in.
 
Ivory55 said:
When reading some threads one could be forgiven in thinking people on here never do anything wrong, lead perfect lives , and have stacks of money. What different worlds we all live in.
Click to expand...
No. It's called freedom of speech.

But what you say, does apply to me :)
 

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