Best mains charger for Lithium

[Raul]

I think I'll end up getting a proper lithium charger but it's just the agro of connecting/setting up with the EBL thing and not setting fire to my van

Out of interest. This is the info on my EBL charger. Does that look like it would bugger my lithium battery if used?

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I'm sorry to disappoint you, but, that charger its not good for prolonged lithium charging, even on lead setting.
It resumes bulk charging when battery drops below 13.7v. It will force the lithium to stay at high voltage all the time, without dropping in float.
If you must, you could charge, but monitor the voltage and unplug the ehu or fuse when the battery reached 14.2-14.3v. Let the lithium come down again.

 

[headlight]

Rubbish, it's not ideal but ok occasionally if needed and that's from a battery manufacturer. Ran mine for 4 years ok and battery still in A1 condition.

Agreed.
Fogstar told me that my Sargent PX300 lead acid only charger would do no harm to my battery just not charge it to 100% SOC.
As long as I had other charge sources that would charge to 100% SOC, ie my Lithium profile MPPT and B2B, then that was fine as the battery does need to charge to 100% to reset the SOC on the BMS and to balance the cells.
I have been running the set up for over a year now with no issues.
But as I mentioned earlier my lead acid charger charges at 14.4v and floats at 13.6v unlike your charger which is a constant 13.8v.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Rubbish, it's not ideal but ok occasionally if needed and that's from a battery manufacturer. Ran mine for 4 years ok and battery still in A1 condition.

That's not what the OP asked. I was responding the the question
"Best mains charger for Lithium".

 

[Raul]

A fixed 13.8V is probably not enough to charge any battery type properly.

I can tell you for sure, given enough time, 2-3 days LiFePo4 it will fully charge at 13.8v.
High Voltage only speeds the process and eliminates the absorb time. IF you do charge to 14.4v, when current tappers to 0.05C the charger needs to cut out, no absorb no float, end off.
Now lower the target voltage a little, to 14.2v it allows a bit of absorb time, giving the bms a chance to balance the cells.
For the record I manage to fully charge at 14.05v all the time with 40-60 mins absorb on the van.
And the house batteries I set at 14x4 56v for 48 nominal as they always have a bigger charge rate with large array.

Voltage is pressure, when battery is full, so is the pressure rise between the anode-separator- cathode. The less time you spend at high voltage, the healthier your batteries are. When battery is 1/2 full, pressure is equal at each side of the separator. In this state can spend years without degradation. Hence that's how they are stored and transported.

 

[autorouter]

I'd ideally like to keep the existing wiring as
If I bypass the EBL with the mains and/or b2b charger then I think this will cause problems with other stuff (like the control panel shower stuff and power to other items like the fridge)

There shouldn't be any problems with other habitation devices if the EBL mains charger or B2B charger bypass the EBL. The EBL is designed to run all the hab devices from 12V supplied by the leisure battery. It will do this even if the mains charger and b2B are not working - this is the normal situation when on a site with no EHU.

The water heater, space heater and fridge normally work from gas when on a site with no EHU. The heater controls, fridge controls and water pump are powered by 12V from the leisure battery, and take very little power from the battery. Of course if EHU is available, the fridge can run on 230V AC, and the water heater and space heater may have mains heater elements that can be used alongside the gas, or even instead of gas. But they are a nice extra, not essential.

Note that the heater controls and the fridge controls still work using 12V, even when EHU is available. The EHU just charges the leisure battery and keeps it topped up. So it doesn't matter how the leisure battery is charged - from the EBL charger, or a different charger, through the EBL or direct to the battery. All that matters is that the battery is kept charged, and the battery can send 12V power to the EBL for the hab devices.

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[StillGoing]

autorouter This is really helpful, thanks.
I just want the easiest way to change my setup over to lithium. I'm not bothered about the absolute best setup. Just one that's safe and works.
I'd ideally like to keep the existing wiring as
If I bypass the EBL with the mains and/or b2b charger then I think this will cause problems with other stuff (like the control panel shower stuff and power to other items like the fridge)

I’ve disabled my EBL charger and wired a Victron IP22 direct to my battery. It doesn’t cause any problems at all. Everything works as it should.

 

[MichaelT]

That's not what the OP asked. I was responding the the question
"Best mains charger for Lithium".

But you said it would catch fire

 

[Raul]

But you said it would catch fire

Given the right conditions it is possible. Lifepo4 are more robust, and very stable, but still contains lithium: fire fuel.
The electrolyte needs to vent, and if there is a source of ignition it will light up.
For the electrolyte to vent, it needs a high pressure from within inside to open the valve, or, if the case is punctured. Inside the casing there is no oxygen, so not combustible, but if it exits the case, in contact with air it will gas and will oxidise, becoming a very flammable gas. If there is no ignition source near by, it will just vent like a propane tank.

 

[DuncT]

I’ve disabled my EBL charger and wired a Victron IP22 direct to my battery. It doesn’t cause any problems at all. Everything works as it should.

How did you disable your EBL charger? By pulling the fuse on the front?

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

But you said it would catch fire

Read my post again. I quoted Google and also gave links to an electrician's website.

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[Sewdhull]

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are much safer than other lithium chemistries, the ones on your phone and laptop have carefully controlled charging, usually not to full capacity.

Overcharge any lithium battery and metallic lithium deposits are created (normally there is no lithium metal ) inside the cells and cause short circuits reducing battery performance and producing heat... enough of those deposits and you get a catastrophic battery failure.
For LiFePO4 your cell swells up, gets hot, smokes and maybe fire, for other chemistries...fire.

When you have a failure all that energy stored in the cells will magically appear before you...

Please use a proper charger.

 

[StillGoing]

How did you disable your EBL charger? By pulling the fuse on the front?

Yes - remove the fuse “Internes Lademodul” (internal charger).

 

[jumar]

Rather defeats having lithium if you’ve gotta plug in…

Yes..but there may be times when you might need to..
I am with you, your statement is very much as I would say...but....if.... after a week of drawing amps and putting nothing back in with solar or B2B , say a week of cloudy damp weather..and a mains supply was available....you might want a little boost from the good old EHU..and for this reason, a suitable Lithium charger would be a useful addition....
All other times the Lithium set up is all we need..That's how I go about it..

 

[jumar]

As above

 

[Carpmart]

The majority of people who go down the Lithium leisure battery route do so to facilitate a different way to power their leisure vehicle.

The aspiration of being off grid, supported by a ‘large’ source of power and the means to recharge from solar and when driving (DC DC) is the goal for many!

If we assume the above is true, then one can also assume that a mains charger will be an infrequently used element to this setup.

A LiFePO4 battery will accept a charge from any mains charger and any charging profile. It will work perfectly fine! Should this non lithium profile be used all the time and the mains charger connected permanently… no it shouldn’t. Switch the non lithium mains charger off when it’s done the job and charged the LiFePO4 battery.

So as part of an ‘off grid’ setup, any mains charger will do as it’s used so infrequently.

If you’re a campsite dweller, hooked up to the mains most nights, buy a lithium profiled charger…

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[Coolcats]

Just following on from my last post about b2b chargers. I also need a mains charger for when plugged in.
I was planning on getting the Victron IP22 but then read that it can be noisy?

Any recommendations? Only need a max of around 30a.

Ta - Dunc

All of these posts are quite interesting, the BOS LE 300 can be run in hybrid mode and no charger change out is required and I hear that the BOS S can be run in both Hybrid and lithium and again no change in charger. So whilst other batteries may be cheaper BOS seems to have a pretty intelligent worry free solution.

 

[JockandRita]

Yes..but there may be times when you might need to..
I am with you, your statement is very much as I would say...but....if.... after a week of drawing amps and putting nothing back in with solar or B2B , say a week of cloudy damp weather..and a mains supply was available....you might want a little boost from the good old EHU..and for this reason, a suitable Lithium charger would be a useful addition....
All other times the Lithium set up is all we need..That's how I go about it..

A LiFePO4 battery will accept a charge from any mains charger and any charging profile. It will work perfectly fine! Should this non lithium profile be used all the time and the mains charger connected permanently… no it shouldn’t. Switch the non lithium mains charger off when it’s done the job and charged the LiFePO4 battery.

Just smiffy. That's us at the moment Garry, ie, on a site in Spain with unusually sh1te weather, so little or no solar input, no B2B input as we are static, so plugged into EHU for a few hours, but only once every 8 to 10 x days, then unplugged as soon as 100% charge is reached. Solar and B2B are LiFePO4 compatible, with the infrequently used mains charger set for Gels. This is the only time of year we are static on a site, compared to our usual routine of moving about every few days back home.

Cheers,

Jock.